CynicalScouter

The same concerns about "federal control over the internet" were the same, verbatim, as federal control over the postal service.

I've never done WB, but any program that is so poorly run that it results in grown adults being brought to tears should be evaluated and examined. That sounds horrible. Did you (or she?) leave any comment to review of the course? "Feedback is a gift".

Just as a frame of reference: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/01/nyregion/rockville-centre-diocese-bankruptcy.html

https://www.law360.com/articles/1318308

The leader lawyer for TCC? Or Abused in Scouting? Or both? I get the impression that TCC wants money, while Abused in Scouting wants annihilation.

Ok, maybe I wasn't clear. Anyone can email Mosby et al. You may not like the ANSWER. But the channels are there, was my point.

One last point on this, and I want to keep it separated. Many of the "frustrated" units will complaint among themselves or complain among other units, but they will not actually speak up to anyone else. It is easier to simply ignore the rule then to complain about it. I will tell you that the SM of the most frustrated unit in my area (as In "Friends of Scouting will come to this unit over my dead body." frustrated) never complained to council and just makes snide comments when we see each other. Leadership works both ways. You want things to change? Speak up, or sit down.

Who cares who sets up the meeting, as long as the meeting happened? I will tell you the number of people who knew it was initiated district to council was small. The larger point was that when it came time to actually show up, few did. The point is that the Council Key-3 showed up when asked and were ready to answer any/all questions and only 2 were asked. All of this "authentic leadership" is focused top down. How about bottom/up ("managing up" to borrow a phrase?) How about this: authentic leadership from UNIT LEADERS means not just belly aching and complaining. It means when

Great, then how should National show humility? Mosby comes out, wearing sack cloth and ashes, begging everyone to forgive him for his transgressions against Scouting? Perhaps self-flagellation? The other aspect of humility I hate to say it is liability. Any statement of contrition or suggestion of fault or error is going to get turned into Plaintiff's Exhibit A in the next bankruptcy filing as an admission of guilt.

In what form? So far what I've seen in this forum is people indicating that if someone from National came to their unit they wouldn't even give them a cup of coffee. I would image that any town hall type meetings or outreach would meet a similar fate (read Hate National!) There is no reason why a unit leader or anyone cannot email Mosby, their Council, or ANYONE. They opt not to because complaining in their sleeves is easier than actually doing something about it. EDIT: I come back to the example I mentioned earlier at a local/my Council level. When the opportunity was offe

Ok, to drive this back to the topic. Authentic leadership will mean different things depending on the level of the organization. BSA's an example. The essay I am thinking of here is Mixed Scanning Model by Etzoni. National in its rule making and authority needs to think and act broadly. It has to focus on the organization as a whole ("broad-angle camera") and do so sometimes without the detailed data such as happiness of unit leaders or real time data on the effectiveness. Unit leaders, however, think in details. John or Jane Scout. This camping trip. That merit badge.

That I think is key to all of this. It isn't as if this is a debate about how to make BSA better, the individual simply wants to see the demise of BSA. That's not helpful.

This it the problem where COs view scouting as "their" program they get to run "their" way in open and flagrant defiance of BSA's rules, especially in the area of religion and politics. And

So, this is telling So the options on the table according to TCC are 1) Global settlement, local Councils coughing up a lot of money ("substantial contribution", see below) 2) Liquidation of National and the Councils are left on their own 3) Back to status quo, no bankruptcy, and a multitude of lawsuits against Local Councils This is I believe the first time I've seen TCC actively contemplate (threaten) a Chapter 7 liquidation. It seems almost seems like "we hang together or we hang separately." And not every Council is biting. But that's not as shocking a

So, allow units to act in whatever fashion they want and calling it BSA scouting makes no sense. Either you are a BSA unit (and therefore in compliance with BSA rules and regulations) or you are not. It really seems as if you are advocating for a model where any unit can call itself "Scouts, BSA" or "Cub Scouts" or whatever and make its own path. Remember: the right to use the terms, language, and logos of Boy Scouts of America belong to Boy Scouts of America. Not Troop 123 or the local CO. You don't want to follow BSA's rules? Fine. Make up your own organization. Several h

I'd like to see such clarification as well. If as a school activity, fine. If as a scout activity and/or using scouting to "train" the scouts to be "yelled at, cursed at, and physically threatened at highly politicized events like pro-life rallies" (the way I originally read it as well as others) that is a glaring YPT/GSS violation. I suspect, however, this will just get a downvote and nothing more. That seems to be his MO.

Point well taken.

I quoted the post where he did. So did @carebear3895 We both read it the same way: He is jeopardizing scouts and this is a scout event.

EXACTLY! Again, it seems as if he is using his Scouting unit in ways that directly violate YPT and Guide to Safe Scouting. You are using Scouting to train teens to be yelled at, cursed and, physically threatened? Honestly, at what point does one of us need to contact National? He admits to putting his scouts in harms way. Moderators? Seriously. Someone needs to step in here. @MattR @RememberSchiff

If you are doing this as a "Scout event" however, it absolutely Council and National's call (as has been pointed out to you over and over again). Even if not for the fact it violates the political practices rule, it does (as you note) get potentially dangerous which means insurance/liability coverage. If your Catholic Parish wants to have the Pro-Life Kids Club go to it, great. But if "Troop 123" is going as "Troop 123" then you are in violation of at least 4 different BSA policies up to and including (and I'd say most importantly) Guide to Safe Scouting because, as even you admit, it can

I will tell you this. I got a committee chair in another unit I met at roundtable. Our district was trying to get a new DE and about ready to post to the web and it came up at RT. Committee chair asked how much they make and was told the salary range. "Part time?" He said. Nope. 4 counties, full time. Nights and weekends. He thought they were joking. Of course our District Chair and everyone absolutely agreed it was underpaid, but that is what they had to budget, so, that was it.

This came up in another subforum, but I thought I'd ask here since this is something that cuts across programs. I've seen over and over again what I think of as two different mindsets Mindset 1: You are an independent entity running YOUR youth program that happens to be using BSA's MATERIALS (including logos, images, names, and ranks). Mindset 2: You are a unit leader/unit committee chair/chartered organization/registered adult leader that is running a BSA program. I ask because this cuts across everything: YPT, Advancement, Council relations, National relations, Fundraisin

My District Chair had a solution for this thanks to COVID. She got sick and tired of hearing "Council does nothing. Council sux." and being in the middle of the mess. And getting Council leadership, especially the Key-3, to come to a district committee meeting was impossible. So she came up with a solution: a Zoom session town hall with the Council Key-3 AND council staff (not all, some) AND council committee. Zoom meant not having to work about getting people to drive from all over, take tons of time out of their night, etc. Every registered adult leader in the district was invited.

And don't forget anti-Commissioner (read: spying spies who spy). Seriously, I was somewhat taken aback by the anti-Wood Badge. And another one that I've seen: anti-knots. Just seeing on the uniform. I've had people comment that is just a sign that "All that means is they went to training." They are all (gold tabs, silver tabs, wood badge beads, knots) signs of "institutionalization". That you must have become part of "them" or one of "them". Not "us" "real" scouters/unit leaders. Many people don't want to be told how to run "their" program. BSA rules get in the way? Screw t

What on earth are you doing taking a Scouting unit to such an event? Second, as a Catholic Scouter with Catholic scouts whose unit is chartered out of a Lutheran church, I've never seen such bigotry. Lucky I guess. But assume you are correct, what does any of that have to do with your position that non-Catholics are not welcome at all in your unit? It seems your own bigotry is shining through. Finally, any such policy of non-Catholics-not-welcome is directly contradictory to the BSA Charter and Bylaws .