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Everything posted by Mrjeff

  1. You can argue the age limit thing all you want, but wether it's in a book, there was an age limit because some of us were subject to it. Weather it was troop imposed, district or council imposed, nationally imposed, or a presidental decree, it doesnt matter because there was an age limit. And this isn't intended to create a discussion on who can do what or what the proverbial "they" can't do.
  2. Thanks, this is the first time that I heard about the idea of "local option" and I think that's a grand idea.
  3. I believe that is the answer. In fact it is happening now. Troops have decided not to worry about the national level views and are doing what they want to do. As long as the leaders, kids, and parents are good with it then it's fine. I just wonder how many troops go on camping trips and invite dads along, registered or not. I wonder how many units plan high adventure activities that dont exactly follow national policies. Has anyone gone to a local gun club and had a shooting event without jumping through BSA hoops? I have always said that people on some national committee have no busines
  4. You certenly make valid points. This is especially evident when recruitment time comes around and piles of cub scout age kids are recruited, pay their fees and discover that they dont have any leaders. Those kids are finished with Scouting, period. And now with the unreasonable fee increases it's going to be a lot harder to tell the check writers, "sorry". The local councils have placed the priority on creating new units when the focus should be on supporting existing units. They should know exactly how many kids the units in their districts can handle and recruit that number. Then thay ca
  5. Wow.....very well said and greatly appreciated.....thank you and God bless.
  6. Here's another question. Who mandates anything in the present BSA. The national organization has disavowed ownership and control of the local councils. I don't care about charters, permission to use a brand, or anything else about what "National" can and cannot do. In reality, and according to the mysterious "National" all they own is 4 campgrounds, which are mortgaged to the top of the pine trees, and a brand. If a parent finds out that their little boy spent the weekend being supervised by a gay man, get really pissed off, and through a fit, they are not going to "National"......they ar
  7. Why not? What's the difference? How does it fit with YPT? This whole damned thing is a mass of inconsistencies and confusion. You know, other countries just dont sweat any of it. Boy, girl, men,women, LGBTQ, it doesnt matter. They camp together, they sleep together, they all hand out together, and at the World Jamboree they went to medical together to pick up condoms and "the morning after pill". Then, if that wasn't enough fun, they went to the trading post in search of beer. If Scouting is going to be an all accepting organization then why stop the progress. Pull out the stops, in four
  8. Perhaps its because when we were young we were left to our own devices. Members of a Boy Scout troop went to school together, played in the neighborhood together, road bikes together, and just hung out together. Scouting taught us that we were all equal and had the same oppertunity as everyone else. We joined scouts to have fun and we did. We enjoyed each others company and we worked together rain or shine. We had respect for all adults and followed the rules. We didn't get involved in major social issues and had no idea what racism was because we wernt mature enough to understand an in
  9. Ok, let's look at it from another angle. In the US girls dont tent with boys, because.........boys can't be more then two years apart in age to tent together, because........men dont tent with women because...............a gay boy or girl tents with who? We are mandated to have both male and female leadership if boys and girls are participating so if we have LGBTQ members present, by reason there must be LGBTQ adult leadership, so should it be male, female, or transgender? Do the parents of the Scouts approve of their youth renting with a LGBTQ Scout, or going on a camping trip with LGBTQ
  10. I'm a little older. I was elected in 1974 and to be elected you had to be 14. Another thing is that women or girls could not be members. I am looking forward to seeing how young ladies contribute to the Order. I didn't know much about administration back then but there were no members of Lekau Lodge #77 who were under the age of 14. I would like to return to that requirement .
  11. The Boy Scouts has never been a christian centered organization. It has always mandated an acknowledgment and duty to God. There has never been a mandated diety. As far as the LGBTQ and transgenders, many people do not agree or support this lifestyle and they have been labeled homophobic, which is not a crime. For a long time Boy Scouts did not allow LGBTQ participants and the members were ok with that. Loss of funding as well as membership caused the National Executive Board to open the doors to anyone who wanted to pay the price of membership, weather that be the LGBTQ community or girl
  12. If you fail to see how the Scout Oath and Law have been seriously compromised I would suggest that you research the history, meaning, and application of both. Other then that, I'm not going to argue my position. And again, compair recent decisions with the timeline leading to the current state of Scouting.
  13. Going from Ordeal to Brotherhood was not a gimme either. It required a written letter and memorizing the answers to a bunch of questions located in a little blue book. I also agree that candidates should be dismissed if they refuse to follow the program. Does anyone else remember carving an arrow?
  14. I'm a little older. I was elected in 1974 and to be elected you had to be 14. Another thing is that women or girls could not be members. I am looking forward to seeing how young ladies contribute to the Order.
  15. Yes that was a requirement. Please research the history of the Order of the Arrow. There are great resources out there for those that are interested. And I agree that the troop program is totaly up to the unit, therefore it is the responsibility of the individual unit to make Scouting a success, or a failure. As far as the Scoutn Oath and Law, they were set aside when some people on some executive board attempted to increase membership by turning it into an activity for everyone. Again, I'm not going to compare credentials, or argue the issues, but I would invite everyone to look at the
  16. Amen my friend...Scouting has been changed by people on national committees in an attempt to keep up with social norms. People who were interested in scouting didn't agree with current social norms so they quit. If Scouting would reinstate the mandate that every member MUST follow the Scout Oath and Law, get outside and camp, hike, swim, build fires, cook.....and focus on having a good time, there is a good chance that we will recover, to a degree. Scouting in it's current state is falling apart. Make it what is was and can be rebuilt.
  17. When I was inducted a few minutes ago a candidate had to be 1st Class, 14 years old, and there was a camping requirement. Unfortunatly the order has changed and I know that many lodges don't operate like they should. It's difficult to tell well meaning and supportive adults that they have to take a back seat. I gladly invite adults to attend our Lodge Executive Committee meetings and present any ideas, but then the final decision is up to the LEC. It may be a go oil d thing that membership is declining and it may return to being an honor society. It really is a privilege to work with this
  18. The Order of the Arrow has nothing to do with Scouting Skills, advancement, or recognition. It is the National Honor Society of Scouts. Scouting itself SHOULD provide all of the opportunity needed for high adventure, backpacking, and those things related to being outside. I believe that one crucial mistake was removing the age requirement. I would invite everyone to research the history of the OA and it's purpose. It is an extracurricular activity and it helps keep older kids involved. Like everything else money is a major consideration. As membership dropped so did membership in the O
  19. I dont personally know anyone who is into ultra light backpacking. There are some, but I don't know any. The OA is the one program that is youth run, at least in my lodge it is. This whole native american thing is just another unnecessary conflict. Our lodge has a native american member and local, real, tribal member native americans have an open invitation to attend any of our events to view our ceremonies and provide chritism. Without exception, they are appreciative of our efforts to commemorate their culture. I would suggest that adults let the voting members decide what they want and
  20. I am not a forester but I believe that most were long leaf with some slash pine that grow well in South Georgia. The camp was decimated but thanks to a lot of hard work Camp Osborn is usable again, although quite different than it was. Thanks for asking. By the was, even the stumps were salvaged for some industrial applications.
  21. One of our camps was hit by two sets of tornadoes. Hundreds of acres of mostly pine were damaged or destroyed so a specialty salvage logging company was able to harvest most of the trees. This certenly wasn't planned and those funds were used to completly rebuild/repair the infrastructure. What a huge mess that was.
  22. I still think that we the original principals of BP, Hillcourt, Beard, or any of the other founders, we should accept and employ them all. Corporate leadership, community leadership, military leadership, and McDonalds leadership are all similar, but very unique at the same time. Boy Scout leadership mimics military leadership as long as it is allowed. To be successful the leader is given responsibility as well as authority. One without the other is useless. Many adults refuse to recognize this in light of liability. As far as positive personal development, that is up to the individual. Sco
  23. That's a very nice history lesson. I still stand by my statement that it is not possible to teach someone to be ethical, have good character, be honest, have a relationship with a diety, be courageous or to accept and respect any point of the scout law. It is also impossible to teach a person to be a good and competent leader. A person can be instructed in technique, the definition of terms and academic principles. A person must then decide if these are relevant based on many external factors and if they should apply these to themselves. I also think that is dangerous to meddle in developm
  24. I think you should just reexamine and contemplate my post so you have a better understanding of my comments.
  25. I find it interesting that people quote BP like they quote the Bible. Bits and pieces are pulled out in order to fit the situation. If we choose to follow the advice of BP and quote it as an absolute, shouldn't we quote all of it?
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