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Everything posted by Mrjeff

  1. Well, that's the real issue. Information at the national level is convoluted, double talk with a lot of "they and we and not yet available " phrases. Never ever not one time have I gotten a straight answer, which leads to rumor and speculation. It may be that the fee increase is being used for the BSA National Staff retreat in Hawaii. Who knows?
  2. So, membership including complete units are disappearing. Participation in national events is dropping off, local camps are closing and being sold, and the National High Adventure Properties have been mortgaged. So in order to raise funds let's charge whatever members that are left a higher membership fee. Then, let's recruit new members and charge them a new member fee and tell them that they still have to pay for everything they do. In addition, let's build a super sized white elephant in West Virginia with all kinds of cool stuff that the majority of the members will never get to use,
  3. I know, here we go again! I have one old scout shirt that has nearly every knot that I ever received, bearing 13 knots. This includes everything from my Eagle Scout knot, to my old "Tiger Cub Group Coach" (anyone remember that?) to the Spurgeon Award. I look at this collection as a record of my time of my youth in Scouting and the trails that I took with my 5 children and 1 grandson as they journeyed through Scouting. I seldom wear this shirt, but I recently had it on during a meeting. One adult asked me about the current limit and seemed offended that I wasn't complying with the curren
  4. Wow, this whole ball of wax is heartbreaking for those of us who love Scouting. Regardless of the changes, alleged impropriety, regardless of personal opinions, there are those who will work through this crisis and do whatever needs to be done to survive. I certenly don't want anyone who has falsely accused the BSA to receive one red cent from anyone. On the other hand there are some who were abused years ago and that have been negitively effected throughout their lives as a result of that abuse and, in my opinion, deserve compensation. I think these claims should be scrutinized and perhaps
  5. Anything concerning the bankruptcy and its end result belongs right here. Apparently there are some military people here as well as the lawyers, the sea lawyers, and those with ideas. There's an old saying that does something like this: plan for the worst and be pleased when it doesn't get that bad. Well, it could get that bad and the lawyers in the group know that when a case goes to court nobody knows what's going to be the outcome until the Judge's gavel falls. And then the appeal process starts. So as I said, prepare for the worst possible outcome and be pleased if it's not that bad.
  6. Every time I suggest moving on and focusing on what we can do to save what we have I'm either ignored or advised that I can always start another group. Clearly the point of my comments have been misunderstood. I think that even if the BSA is completly destroyed no one will be able to stop the true spirit of Scouting. We may have to return to the days where a couple of dads or moms load up their cars or vans and go camp out or take a hike. It just depends on those Scouters who are willing to pick up whatever shreds are left, and just keep going. This whole pile of $#!+ doesn't matter one bi
  7. I admire all of our paid Scouters. Our SE is involved and engaged with our Scouts and enjoys spending time with them. Our DEs are exceptional and work tirelessly to assist our units to be successful. Thay are worth every penny they're paid. When I retired I was asked to take on the responsibilities of a DE and I declined the offer as I am well aware of the work they do and the sacrifices they make. If they were paid by the hour they would all be wealthy. Scouting needs those professionals and I am thankful for them.
  8. You can bet your sweet campfire that there is nothing we can do about the current situation and if we continue to focus on what cant be done the business is finished. None of this at all has any effect on unit operations. If we can't use anything "BSA" then so be it. To use the example of Eagle Scouts would indicate that the BSA is just a means to an end where everyone who participates will earn Eagle. Thats not how it should be. If the fees go up the fees go up. If they close the doors on the BSA then the door is closed and there will be a lot of independent groups popping up. If the fo
  9. I still don't see the connection between law suits, trusts, bankruptcy, victims compensation and all the legal deagle verbiage and kids participating in Scouting. This does not have to impact how Troop 123 delivers the program to it's members. If we want Scouting to survive it will. There may not be grand high adventure bases, national committees or even a national office. But this debacle can't keep kids from camping, hiking, building fires and having fun unless we loose focus on the real purpose of Scouting. A lot of people like to quote Baden Powell but few acknowledge his statement wa
  10. I have been around the "legal system" for over 40 years and the only conclusion that I can make is that no one will know what will happen until it happens. Until this whole convoluted mess is adjudicated we just won't know. The only positive recourse, as I see it, is to keep our local units alive, support our districts and councils, and work hard to give the kids the best Scouting experience we can. This takes a lot of work and dedication in lieu of uncertainty. I am committed to helping do what is necessary to provide Scouting to every single young person who wants to be a part of this t
  11. I don't think that anyone objects to having an educational system for safeguarding the young people who are involved in scouting. Thank you for providing an expert opinion on the motivs of the BSA. I am certenly no professor of law but I did work in the system for 40 years and did pick up a few things along the way. I agree that the motives of the "Most Hign snd Roya1 Scourers" need to realise that the peasant class are not stupid and can indeed think for themselves. BSA is not transparent on any level and is really a business that is failing miserably. Many of the experienced and dedicat
  12. I for one have no idea what the truth is. People who serve on the national level of the BSA are omniscient, omnipresent, and omnirediculous. Try to have a conversation with one and immediately you realise that you will not get a straight answer that isn't cloaked in double talk. I for one am fed up with this b%[! $÷!+. I have invested a couple of years and a few dollars in support of this thing just to find out that it really is a disorganized circus that doesn't even know what it's various areas are doing. I really don't care what happens to "National" because there will always be kids
  13. The BSA can come up with more rules and requirements then one person can keep track of and I guess those people think that the volunteers are stupid, lack common sense, or just have trouble thinking. YPT is a requirement but there should be a system in place that will allow for the timely completion of that requirement. It would not surprise me if they started charging a fee for YPT. I wish they would just stop adding things and fix what they have.
  14. This thing looks like the BSA is again trying to kill itself. What sponsor is going to agree to this mess? It would be easier to shut down the BSA program and start a youth group.
  15. Oh, this whole idea of having every volunteer complete Youth Protection Training and if you don't you can't register. Fine and dandy, good idea, way to go.........well, rather then impose more rules, restrictions, and training classes, how about fixing the YPT training so that it records the completion of the course. I'm quite sure that many will reply "Well, I didn't have any trouble" but there are many that willing to just forget about it because they have much trouble with it, have completed it more then once, and still can't print a certificate or get their ticket punched. Congratulatio
  16. Wow, I had a feeling that my post would stir the pot and I guess that I was right. Cynical Scouter appeared to do disagree and then jumped right back into the area of liability, which in itself has little to do with the safety and well being of children. There's an old saying that statistics lie and liars use statistics. I'm just not a believer in the accuracy of statistics. Does anyone really think that an online YPT course is going to stop child molestation, or that taking a virtual class is going to safeguard kids at camp? The whole thing smells to me that the BSA is throwing the vo
  17. I'm sure that there are many examples of justification to support the changes in the BSA. I really would like to know the real reason for these changes, and I don't mean the rhetoric about the welfare and safety of the children. Membership in all areas is way down so the registration fees for a new youth member is now nearly $100.00. The position specific training requirements should grant you a masters degree. Youth protection is mandatory but the system in place to complete the training doesn't always work and may not record it's completion. The new requirement to have a camp administ
  18. I just don't know what's going to happen. Every person who is involved, no matter where they fit in, have their own reasons for doing so. It may greed, recourse, retribution or revenge, I don't know. What I do know is this whole bucket of $h!t has cast a huge black shadow over the Boy Scouts of America. To say that the Boy Scouts "ain't what it used to be" is an understatement, but very little is. One thing that hasn't changed is the fact that Scouting is still a fine organization that can benefit young people for years to come. I look forward to the day when campfire talks no longer inclu
  19. I can guarantee that with a few phone calls I could get 2-3 parents and 20 kids together and go camping right now. I am also quite sure that there are those in every community that could do the same thing. In my neck of the woods there are several Scouters who are active, skilled, and trustworthy and their units are plugging along. It's tragic that the BSA has suffered through this, but I still think we can survive. We must work very hard to restore this broken trust and to restore confidence in the unit leaders. Parents don't give two spits who the District Executive or the National Comm
  20. I'm with the folks who believe we can carry on! Nobody knows what is going to come out of this but Scouting can survive. The national office may lock their doors, large and valuable pieces of property may be sold, the entire professional staff may be abolished and there is not one little thing that I can do about it. What I can do is get a couple of adults together and take a bunch of kids camping. I can teach lashing, firebuilding, cooking, and other grand "outdorsey" things. I can teach and demonstrate good citizenship, leadership and honesty. That sounds like Scouting to me. I may n
  21. This dialog provides a lot of food for thought: People are required to take youth protection and the "good guys" who wouldn't abuse a child will follow the rules. The "bad guys" who are abusers won't follow the rules will still be abusers; the BSA is in a very serious situation and is trying to survive so they raise the registration fees and tack on an additional fee for new members who have just joined; the grand white elephant, Summitt Bechtel" was developed as a jamboree site and the jamborees have been canceled; membership across Scouting is very low; some training requirements" are u
  22. I think that most people realise that Scouting has accomplished great things, and can still positively influence thousands of young people. Those same people acknowledge that bad things happened, too. Blame is hard to place, and I think, that regardless of any safeguards put in place, bad things can take place anywhere and at anytime. I don't have any answers, but if those of us who believe in Scouting, love Scouting, and want to keep Scouting alive we all need to Scout On. I would like to point out that some people who were abused during a Scouting event and are getting help from mental he
  23. Well, 14 years ago, 14 months ago, 14 days ago, it still applies. With very few exceptions, adults need to keep their noses out of OA business.
  24. Open water is a very applicable term. It may be that each charterd organization has to cover the individual unit or perhaps each key leader will have to obtain special liability insurance. If something like this happens I know many leaders will walk away and more charterd organizations will also back away. This will cause the BSA to really shrink. I just hope that we dedicated scouters can figure out how to just survive.
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