FireStone

He had to know going into the project that his chance at the Eagle rank was going to hinge on the appeal process. It was a gamble all the way through. Some choice wording in the article, the author's bias is glaring. "Technicality derails Eagle bid..." You can't derail a train if gets started off the track. Is it still a "derailment" if a scout joins up at 16 and can't make Eagle? Is it still just a "technicality"? "It seems there's a rule requiring Eagle candidates to hold the rank of Life Scout for at least six months..." It seems? No, it's written, clearly. It's not some hidden language or ambiguous requirement, and it has existed for a long time. I have no issue with a scout doing a project and going through the appeal process in an attempt to earn rank. As mentioned, I suspect he knew all along that this was a risk to take. The appeal process exists to ask for clarification or a ruling on something. He kind of alluded to that in the article. But I do have issue with the suggestion by the author (and those seemingly in agreement in the scout's local community) that he was somehow "derailed" or otherwise unfairly treated.

I was (possibly mistakenly) under the impression that the updated uniform pieces for Cubs would be out by summer (June). I briefly saw the new red Wolf neckerchiefs online, but then they were gone just as quickly. The only thing I've been able to find so far is the new solid-color-cover handbooks. Anyone heard anything about the uniform pieces? I was kind of hoping to tell my Wolf den we'd be wearing red in the fall, but right now it's not looking good for that to happen. I'm thinking I should plan to tell parents to buy the yellow hats and neckerchiefs.

I view adult uniform patches with utility in mind. How useful are they, and do they communicate something of value? There are patches that (I hope) instill a sense of trust in the parents of the kids in my Den. "Trained" for example. I realize it doesn't take much to get one of those, but I like that it suggest that I did something other than just buy a shirt and show up to be in a position to attempt to teach your kid something. Den Leader, Cub Master, etc., patches seem useful. Makes it pretty clear what each leader does, and any parent can just take a glance at your shoulder to know what you do. I view square knots as talking points. Kids ask about them sometimes, adults on occasion as well. And I welcome any opportunity to talk about what potentially lies ahead in Scouting for kids that stick with the program and work hard.

I'm kind of amazed that water guns and laser tag are subjects worthy of so much discussion. It has never occurred to me that either would really be all that important in a Scouting program. If I look back at my 12 years as a youth in Scouting, I don't think I'd ever have the thought that I missed out on anything by not ever having the chance to play laser tag. Also in thinking back on my youth Scouting days, I remember my Troop ditched our Council camp for many years because of the poor camp program. The issues expressed in the original post here sound a lot like problems/concerns I heard expressed in my youth (1990s), and I'm guessing are far from new. Or normal, thankfully. Because today, just like back then, it was a simple matter of finding a better camp, and both back then and today I know that good camps exist in our area. Maybe dull/poor camp programs are more common today, but certainly they're not the new normal.

The one case we know of in Scouting, the NJ boy, my understanding of that case is that the only reason anyone found out is because the mother informed leaders, and word spread to a parent who took issue with it. On appearances, no one could tell he wasn’t born a girl.

I agree civics is lacking in this country, but is Scouting the best venue for teaching it? Seems like we're picking up the slack where schools should be doing a better job. Personally I'd be fine with seeing all Citizenship MBs gone.

Amen. Scouting is far from doomed, because of the local effect. Scouting is thriving here in my town as well.

I can't help pointing out the contradiction in this statement. What if a scout's "own pace and time" is to reach First Class in a year? I always find it odd that we applaud a certain timeline (a longer one) for advancement while criticizing another (shorter) one, even though neither are encouraged or discouraged by the rank requirements. The time between ranks that occurs because of POR requirements is the only deciding factor. So why do we judge one choice vs. another when neither break any rules or adhere to any BSA standard best-practices? One of the most dedicated Scouts I've ever known (and now a highly involved and dedicated Scouter) was a 13-year-old Eagle. This idea that some minimum age beyond the requirements should be arbitrarily applied because of what some people "believe in" is ridiculous.

Love this idea. Definitely going on my list of suggestions. I know the town has a pretty rich scouting history, some names on the original charter are family names that are still around town. Probably could find a good number of people in the area with past affiliations with the unit, alumni, etc.

It's a little tricky to figure out from the article, but it basically sounds like this woman has issues with events taking place on the church property, which she lives adjacent to. So her response, with kids present, is to fire off a bunch of rounds in what seems like a deliberate attempt to scare children. Classy. 🙄

Ever looked into the BPSA? They kind of do that already, just with more progressive membership policies (no restrictions of the basis of gender, sexual orientation, or religion). But their program is definitely old-school, primarily outdoor-focused and with a much shorter list of merit badges.

I think there are uniform regulation lines that just shouldn't be crossed. Maybe sometimes those lines are a little blurry (am I really going to give an 18-year-old a hard time for wearing the Eagle badge?) and then I think there are lines that are crystal clear (the 40+ year-old Council guy wearing the badge is ridiculous). Some things we let slide, while some things are sacred in the BSA and should be respected. This is one of those things that I think needs to be respected. We're not talking about an improperly worn Bobcat badge here. This is about improper wearing of an Eagle rank badge. I agree that it's tacky, and I might take it a step further and say it's disrespectful.

There's a guy at my local Council office who wears an Eagle rank badge and an Eagle square knot. He's probably in his 40s or 50s. I have not yet met him directly but I've seen him around and I'm sure the time will come when we cross paths and get to talking. We'll see how long I can bite my tongue. I'm guessing I won't make it much further than, "Hi, nice to meet you. So what's up with that rank badge?" 😁

Absolutely. I'm just saying that if this online system works as it's been explained to me, it would at least cut down on those "no report, no badge" trips. Again it's all in theory at this point, but if it works, you could basically show up at the shop and get a badge for your unit that is in the ScoutBook system as complete as of the minute you step up to the register. Of course this is the BSA, and so my skepticism regarding how smoothly this will all work as it has been explained to me is of course highly suspect.

I'm at the Cub level so I don't know exactly how much variation there is when it comes to the goal of quick recognition. But I do know that it is heavily emplasized by the BSA at the Cub level that recognition should happen quickly, no more than 2 weeks after completion of something. We want the Scouts to make that connection between what they did and what they received to mark the achievement. If months go by, the system is less effective. I suspect that the intent at the Troop level has to be about the same. We always want to connect the "doing" with the "recognizing", and for the younger guys coming from the Cub experience not all that long ago, it's probably even more important to continue with that system of quickly recognizing advancement. I struggle with this in my Pack. Our advancement chairperson won't go to the shop more than once per month. And advancement reports have to be turned in 1 week prior to that trip. So in some cases if we just finished up something the week of the shop run, it will be more than a month before we even get the belt loops. I've occasionally worked around that by buying loops myself (some shop employees are helpful with this, in the absence of an advancement report), and then I just use my receipt to return the loops once I eventually do get them from the advancement chair.

Breakdown of the intent and spirit of the Patrol Method was happening 20+ years ago by my memory, probably longer really. I don't think it's fair to try and pin any of that on the recent changes.

I've been told that with ScoutBook becoming the new National standard for advancement tracking, actual "paper" paperwork might go away. Not 100% sure yet, but it sounds like we could effectively show up at a Scout Shop and have advancement verified via computer, so no more delays in getting badges. In theory, at least.

They're not playing on any half-million-dollar fields over here. The field our Little League uses has almost as much grass on the infield as the outfield.

What I don't get is why anyone feels it necessary to wear the Eagle rank badge as an adult, when there are plenty of opportunities to display your Eagle accomplishment in other ways. There's the square knot (and 2 varieties to choose from if you want to pony up for the NESA Life Member option), Eagle neckerchiefs (again, multiple options), You can throw in an Eagle neckerchief slide if you want to, or wear an Eagle bolo, Eagle belt buckle, if your Council has a special Eagle shoulder patch you can wear that. There are Eagle rings, necklaces, jackets patches, various other patches and emblems, hats, dog tags, walking stick medallions, pins, bumper stickers, keychains, the list goes on and on. When not in uniform you can wear an Eagle t-shirt. Or you can wear it under your uniform for even more Eagle-ness. If someone really feels the need to show off their Eagle accomplishment beyond the youth rank badge, there are more than enough ways to do it. Insisting on wearing a youth badge on an adult uniform is just unnecessary, and frankly a distraction from youth achievement. There is a reason that square knots are small and understated. This is a youth organization, and we celebrate youth accomplishments above all others. Wear your square knot and go drop a paycheck on all of the Eagle paraphernalia you want at the Scout Shop. You can literally cover yourself (and your car and your desk) with Eagle stuff.

I didn't think I was putting anything down, this is just my assessment of a cost comparison to what we most often get compared to, which is sports. Scouting is often viewed as the more costly activity, which I think is unfair being that we're a year-round activity. I'm not pitting anything against anything else. I just get tired of hearing about how expensive Scouting is, meanwhile families are doing other things that I believe are actually more expensive on a cost-per-month basis.

I think it's all still a bargain compared to other activities. Our local little league costs $125 per season (includes team t-shirt and cap) but that's for 3 months. If it were year-round like Scouting, that fee would probably be $500, and although their "uniform" is paid for in the registration fee, equipment isn't. Probably at least another $100+ annually for gloves, bats, pants, socks, etc. Want to do a week of summer baseball camp or extra training? That will cost more than the regular season. And it all gets you access to a grassy field. Scouting gets you access to indoor and outdoor spaces, camping spots, various resources, learning opportunities, events, B&G, PWD, affordable summer camps compared to other non-Scouting options, numerous other connected opportunities like OA, STEM initiatives, leadership training and opportunities, etc.

That's a really good point that I hadn't considered. I don't think it will be as useful in my Den just yet (Tigers), but as the boys get older and closer to thinking about life in a Troop, it could be a good opportunity to talk about this program that I think very few Cub Scouts even know about before they enter a Troop. It is always a good thing to be able to present opportunities to do more fun things in Scouting. The more we can offer in terms of the "here's what you can do when you cross over" type of stuff, hopefully the more likely we are to see Scouts continue on after crossing over.

A nearby Pack is celebrating 75 years under the same charter and CO this fall. In discussing it with one of their committee members I asked them if they were doing anything special to mark the occasion. His response was, "I have no idea. Any suggestions?" To which I also had no ideas and only could offer this suggestion: "I think there's a uniform patch for that." What do units typically do for these big milestone anniversaries? After giving it a little more thought I was thinking maybe a special patch (not just the 75 bar, something custom-designed) for the uniform pocket (or backpack or jacket, etc). Maybe a picnic or some sort of celebration. Has your unit ever celebrated a big anniversary? What did you do?

I was a Brotherhood OA member as youth, and I understand that I can re-establish lodge membership as an adult. My old lodge merged into the current local lodge so I guess it would just be a matter of verifying previous lodge membership. My question is this: I'm a Tiger DL. Are there often other Cub level adults active in OA? I get the feeling it's more of a Troop-level thing for adults. There is no one else in my Pack who is OA, and although I'm sure that personally I'd enjoy becoming active and participating in lodge activities, I'm just wondering if this is the right time to do it. Do most folks just wait until their son(s) get elected and then re-join then?

I assumed we were talking about neckerchiefs, this being a thread about neckerchiefs. Thank you for clarifying.