ValleyBoy

46 minutes ago, fred johnson said:

"Linked troops" is not co-ed, it's two single gender troops under the same charter org.  Before, a charter org could have one troop.  Now the plan is two if they are single gender troops.  Thus the term "Linked Troops".

When reality sets in, it may be viewed as co-ed because many troops will have significant overlap to make it work.  

Correct,  From discussions with our troops unit committee we as a unit would be open to having a linked troop that could meet even on the same night as our present unit but our CO would have to be approached by adults that are willing to start and take the leadership role of the new unit.  As a boy's troop we would be willing to assist the new unit in training of there adult leaders and possible join activities just as we would with any other scout troop.  

To answer your question, yes I would assist in getting  the troop started.  But  in my area every Pack and Troop is dependent on the Adult leadership.  Packs (CM, Den Leaders), Troops (SM, ASM) most of the CM are parents.  Units in my area fold because of losing this above group.  If it was left up to the CO to recruit and replace unit leaders NO leaders would be replaced and the unit would fold.   Units with very active CO involvement with the units is rare  in my area.  They are willing to let units meet at there location but do not take an active role in most cases in the running of the unit.

30 minutes ago, David CO said:

No, no, no.   I didn't mean to suggest that you change religions. I was suggesting that you might like to participate in your own church's scout unit.

I did not take it that away.  Church I attend is the same denomination as the Troop's CO, also the two churches are located within one mile of each other.

14 minutes ago, David CO said:

Try it, you'll like it.

No reason to change my Church membership at this time.  If I did feel lead to make a change I would have no problem moving my Church membership to my present Troop's CO.

After reading some of the comments made by some members of LDS sponsored units I have a few questions since I am not familiar with the setup of the LDS Church.   As an outsider looking in I can see why the LDS Church would change there youth program for the entire Church from the BSA program so that there Churches not located inside the US could all use the same program.

My understanding at this time is that the leadership of LDS units are appointed by the Bishop.  I was told this by an LDS member several years ago and that a member of a Woodbadge class from an LDS unit that I was a staff members of had to have the permission of the Bishop to attend the Sunday session  of the Woodbadge course.  The LDS member that told me this was a member of the WoodBadge staff but also registered with a non-LDS scout unit. 

I know that Churches such as Southern Baptist, United Methodist and others have there own youth programs that they use at these Churches.   These Churches see the scouting program as an outreach program that the local Church can use along with there main youth program.  I have been involved with units were the only adults that were members of the CO were members of the unit committee.  Personally I have never been a member of the CO for any scout that I have been a member off.

Question #1

Will local LDS Churches be allowed to be the CO of scout units under the present LDS Doctrine ?

Question #2

The main reason I am a volunteer inside the scouting program is to reach youth that do not attend Church.  Very few of the youths of any unit that I have been a member of have also been members of the CO.  Do present LDS units have non-LDS youth members of there units?

41 minutes ago, shortridge said:

Since you clearly view nontraditional families as inferior, what’s your response when the two fathers of a new Scout come to join your unit? Or the two mothers of one of your PLs show up to help on a service project? Or a single grandparent who is raising a Scout comes to register the youth? Or what about a family by adoption - also clearly nontraditional? Do you welcome these families?

I thing you are putting words into someone's mouth. Are you asking father & step father or Man/Man marriage because the answer would be different for both to be a registered adult with our unit per our CO.  Now the youth from all of the above would be treated the same.  

With our troop we do not band the youth from bring cellphones or other electrical devices.  We leave that decision  up to them with the knowledge that they are responsible for there device.  Also we ask them where they are going to recharge there device since we have never seen an electrical outlet on the side of a tree,   

I have a long history with the BSA.  My father was not a member of BSA as a youth but my grandfather on my mothers side was a professional scout during WWII.  I grew up hearing him talk about running summer camp during the war with almost no other adult help due to the war.  After the war ended he went back to his first love which was the ministry.  His son my uncle was the first of six Eagle Scout in the family.  I joined the cub scouts in 1968 as a 3rd grader.  We moved during the summer before I started the 4th grade so I was a member of a different pack that year, them moved again the next year so my last years as a cub was again in a different pack.  Join the scout troop in that town and was a member for right at two years under the old system until we moved again back to the town my hometown were I had first joined as a cub.  With this move I also had to about start over with advancement since the program had started the new system with the skill awards.  I completed the requirements for Eagle just before I turned 18 in 1978.  Also as a youth I served on summer camp staff for 3 years and became a member of the OA at the age of 15.  Was elect Lodge Vice-Chief for 1 year them as Lodge Chief the next 3 years of Wehadkee  273.  I was also the first youth to become a Vigil member of the Lodge in over 20 years.  I left the scouting program in the early 80' after serving as a ASM for 4 years with two different units, 1 located in my hometown and another while attending college.

I got back into scouting in 2001 when my son joined the cub scouts.  Served as a DL for 1 year and as CM for 3 years.  I was also Cub Scout Day Camp Director for 2 summers.  While my son was Webelo I moved over to the Scout Troop as SM after all the adult leadership of the Troop left to keep the troop from lapsing after recruiting a new CM for the pack.  The Troop & Pack had the same CO which I regret to say had very little involvement with either unit.  2 years later we changed CO's to another Church for both units which has worked out for the best.  I served as SM for 5 years before stepping down to the position of ASM and turned the troop over to the present SM who had also been my ASM and I had worked with from 6 years with the pack & troop.  I attended Woodbadge and completed my ticket (Beaver) and also served on Woodbadge staff.  I also serve as a unit commissioner and as a member of the district advancement committee.  Also have received the District Award of Merit and the District Scouter of the year award.

Yes scouting had changed since I was a youth and left the program in the early 80', but even with the changes since them I still see the program as still the best youth program that still instills the same values that I learned in the program as a youth.  As long as these values remain in the program I plan on remaining in the scouting program as a member as long as I am able. 

5 minutes ago, an_old_DC said:

By the way, I don’t worry about what a DE or DD thinks.

DE and DD come and go.  Boots on the ground is what makes the program go.

2 hours ago, perdidochas said:

The official BSA standard is keeping it in the Scout Handbook. You guys are just adding to the requirements. 

We except both.  The question is what do you do if the youth loses there scout Handbook.

I can understand your concern.  With our Troop we also give each youth a folder that stays at our meeting location that includes a sheet will the rank requirements that the scout is working on.  Each scout is responsible for keeping a record of each requirement that he has completed.  Yes this record can be recorded inside the youth scout handbook but the reality is that youth lose there handbook all the time.  We do have a special needs youth in our troop an we make sure that his worksheets are updated since he also is not able to complete the worksheets.  I do not see the worksheets as being additional requirements for each rank advancement as long as the worksheets only include the requirements as listed and no additional requirements.  If the requirement is completed at our scout meeting it is recorded during the meeting.  If it was completed during a camping trip/activity it is recorded at our next   troop meeting.

3 hours ago, The Latin Scot said:

After hearing the swirl of rumors, I found this!

http://www.texastrailsbsa.com/openrosters/ViewOrgPageLink.aspx?orgkey=2998&itemkey=14780

I have to say, I do understand the majority of these uniform changes, even if I don't like them all (I have always been resistant to change). I have always wondered about the aqua color being used for Bears; light blue is much simpler. But making the switch out to the tan/olive uniform for ALL Webelos is annoying, and for some, expensive. I understand the cunning behind it - get the boys in the uniform early, and there is a far better chance they'll continue on to Boy Scouts since they own the uniform already. But still, it's kind of frustrating. I won't require it of my families for a couple of years at least. But I will miss the diamond blue patch!

I agree that it can be expensive when the Webelos has not out grown his blue cub scout uniform.  But also remember that an scout uniform  never becomes an unofficial scout uniform. therefor since the blue cub scout uniform has been a official Webelos uniform it will always be official.  Just from this I would not require the uniform change until the youth has out grown his cub scout uniform. Just my two cents worth.

24 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

One of the older scout’s teaches woods tools safety on the first new scout camp out each year so the new Scouts can use their knife. We require all new adults attend the class as well, mostly so they see boy run in action.

I remember one new adult was a little perplexed about how the older scout instructor taught knife sharpening. The technique was different from how he learned when he was a scout. He very politely asked the instructor about it and the instructor responded by giving the adult a page number reference in the scout handbook.

You never know how some adults react to these classes, but this adult told me later that he knew his son was in the right troop simply by the way the instructor responded to his question. He said, “I’m an Eagle Scout and I thought I knew everything about scouting and camping. The instructor, on several levels, politely showed me that I still have a lot to learn.”

I didn’t watch the Scouts teach the course because I wanted the new adults to see that I trusted them even in teaching safety. But I sure was proud of him.

Barry

This old Eagle Scout is still learning new skills inside scouting even after being back in the program for over 15 years.  Or it might be that I am so old now that I have just plain forgot stuff as I have grown older so it now seen new all over again.

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1 hour ago, ParkMan said:

How does a unit accepting gay youth cause any scout to violate the Scout law or oath?

 

1 hour ago, ParkMan said:

How does a unit accepting gay youth cause any scout to violate the Scout law or oath?

 

Before  the change on gay youth with our troop it was a subject that we did not bring up or discuss.  Since the change it is a subject that the adult leadership has discussed.  Kids will be kids an make dumb decisions at times and our normal scout is attracted to girls for the most part so as a program we have rules in place that hopefully if followed will keep dumb decisions from taking place.  The issue that our adult leadership has discussed concerning gay youth within the Troop is that know, how do we deal with boys that are attracted   to boys.  and what rules do we need to put in place for this issue. 

As a troop we have not had to face this issue but it is a concern.  

As far as Gay adults, nothing has changed with our troop with the BSA policy change.

54 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

I'm a CC and I think the Committee needs to take a step back here.

A large part of Scouting is providing an environment where Scouts can learn and grow.  You've got a young scout who made a mistake.  Let the scout and the SM deal with it and move on.  The point here is to coach the scout, help him to see his error, and then figure out how to move forward.

Correct.  Reasons why this is correct.  The project was approved by the unit committee and the Scoutmaster.  The issues above about the scout meeting with  a specific person to reviewed the proposal and photos of the project should have been address before the unit committee approved the project.  If the unit committee has questions about the status of the project they need to ask the SM not the scout.

1 hour ago, NJCubScouter said:

I have never heard of a school district taking over a PTO like this.  As some others have said, it kind of defeats the purpose of the whole thing.  I completely understand their frustration at not being able to manage their own finances, especially while a Scout unit that THEY own is able to have its own bank account.  The PTO presumably was a "legal entity" (a corporation or something similar) at some point, and legally it may still be, but it is not being permitted to operate as one.  But as others have also said, the issue of whether this PTO qualifies to be a CO is really for the council/district.  I think that if anyone is going to provide the PTO with a "counter viewpoint," it should be the DE (or equivalent), not the unit.  And the council might well decide that you should have a new CO, since it is kind of questionable whether you have a qualified CO now.

I do not see it as the school district taking over the PTO.  Also I do not see it as the PTO not being able to manage there own finances.   In our local school system every parent group that supports any activity for any of the schools in the local school system has to use the school system PO system for any funds paid out of the funds that they have inside there account that is held by the local school system.  I have never heard of the local school system not writing a check for the PO that any of the groups have generated as long as they have the funds inside there account with the school system.  I know the local band boosters have generated a PO on Tuesday evening and had a check in hand to pick up supplies needed on Thursday.   

9 hours ago, Scoutmaster Teddy said:

We circle up and sing vespers, joining hands right arm over left, and end with three shakes.

We also circle up joining hands right arm aver left then sing the first verse of Taps which are:  

Day is done, gone the sun,
 From the lake, from the hills, from the sky;
 All is well, safely rest, God is nigh.

Then we say this short prayer.

Now may the great father of all good scouts be with us till we meet again Good Night.

21 hours ago, Oldscout448 said:

 It also affects the ceremonies themselves when the team is spending hours Friday afternoon clearing Trails setting out blazes, etc.they dont have much time for rehearsing and the performance suffers.

We seem to be caught in a circular pattern here.  Too few people leads to overwork, leads to burnout, leads back to not enough people. 

Also kids just want to have fun.  If the ceremonies aren't impressive and the " Come and join us you'll enjoy it" pitch is given by an exhausted , stressed out, disheveled ceremonies vice-chief, their probably not going to be signing up anytime soon.

The above could be done by other lodge members that are not part of the ceremonies team.

As a former Cubmaster, I would have concerns about any cub scout attending pack activities with any non-family member without another adult family member present.  The reality is the only persons that a background check is preformed on are  registered adults inside the scouting program.  The difference between your father and your ex-husband attending events and your boy-friend attending events with your son is that the boy-friend is not a family member. 

I have had my down sleeping bag for right at 40 years had have not had any problems with the bag except have to make a repair on the zipper about 10 years ago.  Also I have never done any waterproofing to the bag.  And yes the bag has gotten wet due to a leaky tent during a rain monsoon.    Three inches of water inside a tent will do that.  Was not by tent but I will always remember that night.  Biggest thing is to take care of the bag. by cleaning it and when it does get wet to dry it out.   

It is the Youth that has reached the rank of Eagle Scouts Court of Honor.  Therefor in our unit we plan the ECOR per the Scout and his families wishes.  Some know what they want included, others have no idea.  As a unit we assist the scout with the ECOR. and try our best to plan the COR according to the scouts wishes.   

22 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Sadly it looks as if we will be going to the same old places. We do 2-3 campouts at the nearby Scout camp. Another camp out at an OOC Scout camp. Then we go to nearby state parks or private camp grounds. One we have not been to in about 3 years reopened, but it is also 30 feet outside of city limits.

The other adults do not want to do anything over an hour away in the winter months so that there will be some light for the Scouts to set up camp. They don't think the Scouts are ready for nite time set ups.

Excluding summer camp,  our troop usually only travels as a unit about once a year for a camping trip.  Those camping trips are mainly the ones that it takes over an hour to get to the camping location or the location is very hard to give parents directions to the site.  Most of the sites we camp at are less than a 45 minute drive and we have the parents bring the scouts to the camping site.  We do this mainly to not have to wait until 6:30 or later on Friday evening to leave on a camping trip to when all the parents get off work. 

17 minutes ago, Chisos said:

Most of ours tend to be in state/national forests, usually in a designated "group campground" or something similar.  These range from free, to a couple of bucks per night per person.  We camp at our council camp for events, like camporees and such.

Private property camping is pretty rare for us.  I guess it's a function of knowing people who have land available.

The troop I grew up in camped on private property a lot more often.  But, we had several leaders/parents who either had property, or knew someone who did and let us camp there.

Most of our has been from knowing people with land available.  Only 3 locations are owned by unit leaders and 1 by the grandparents of one of our youth members.  Out of these 4 we have yet to camp on any of these 4 properties.