ValleyBoy

1 hour ago, Back Pack said:

Hard to have fire in some states. More often than not we can’t have them. When we do they are low impact fires. Our unit enjoys fires too but has made a commitment to conservation. Fires are only when necessary. Maybe fires are another tradition that needs to go away. 

The only camping trips that we do not have fire at is when the area is under a no burn order or during the summer when the temperature is very hot then on a small cooking fire.

With our local councils camporee coming up this weekend and from reading posts on this site for the past few months it has got me to thinking about what type camping locations other Troops use for camping trip. 

Our Troop usually only camps on scout property at most 2 times a year.  One is the upcoming camporee this weekend and another scout property if a council event is scheduled for that location.  The second scout property is mainly used cub scout family camping and other district or council activities.   

We usually camp once a year in the primitive area of a local public campground.  Troop has never been charged to camp at this location.

In the 13 years I have been with the troop, we have only camped in a state/public campground 3 times.   The rest of out troop camping trips have been on private property.  Out of all the private property that our Troop has use I know of no cases were the property owner would not allow the Troop to  return to the property.  Usually the only cost that the scouts have for these camping trips on private property is the cost of the food for the camping trip.

What type locations do your units usually use for camping trips. 

23 minutes ago, Tampa Turtle said:

We do use fire for staring at. 

A camping trip is not complete with out a fire.  Adults in our unit do like to burn some wood.  A fire does have it uses.  Nothing like cooking over a fire, then letting the fire turn into outdoor TV.

My son's project was inside the city park playground just a few blocks from our home. 

The other 3 Eagles from our Troop were:

1) An outdoor class at the Elementary school that he the scout had attended. 

2) Covered pavilion at the Church that is the Charter Organization for the Troop that  the scout and his family is also a member off..

3)Moving the location of a flag pole from a Cotton Mill that was being torn down, across the street so that the flag pole was next to a WWII monument  that listed all the citizens of the community that died in WWII.

One of the other Troops in our area has had several different scouts that built covered Bus stop pavilions in different locations around town so that student do not have to stand out in the rain waiting on the school bus.

I have been on several Eagle Boards were the scout came up with their project from just calling the Army Corp of Engineers that are over a local lake. 

My old council scout camp which is still in use by my present council was all cabin camping for summer camp.  All but 2 of the cabins were open air due to there not being any chinking between the logs.  All each of the cabins had was lights, electrical outlet and cots. 

The Troop that I am a member of had over 50 years with no lapses in the charter in the mid 70'.    The unit did lapse something in the later 80' or 90' not sure when.  I do have an old green' scout shirt from the later 70' that I still ware  on occasions that has the yellow 50 years badge below the unit number.  With a Council merger years ago our units number did officially change.  All the unit numbers from the old Council were changed to 9000's.  Our units number officially changed from Troop 9 to Troop 9009 with the merger.  

When it come to the uniform all the members of the Troop only have the number 9 as the unit number.  We have never been question by anyone from the District or Council on this subject.

Yes Scouting is a global movement but the core building blocks of Scouting are still based on the local unit.

In a one patrol troop, the SPL's function is very limited in a supportive role, unless that SPL takes on more than just SPL.  If he functions as QM, TG, etc, and various other hats in that small situation, I can see a bit more opportunity for the SPL.  But as a further caveat to that situation, would he then be taking away opportunities from the various patrol members (under GBB format) of holding those positions within the patrol.

 

I could conceivably see a figurehead SPL that functions as a generalist with many hats, helping the PL, the APL, the patrol QM, the patrol Scribe, etc. develop their skills through the SPL's experience and tutelage.  Measuring the functionality of the SPL would be determined by the PL who recognizes the "outside" input of the SPL helping out the various instruction to the patrol members.  Maybe in this case the POR Instructor would be a bit more appropriate and would encompass many facets of support from the older scout.

 

Just a thought.

In our Troops the SPL does function as a TG and the main youth mentor to the PL & APL.  We have a ASPL due to the fact to fill the gap and step in if the SPL is not able to attend a Troop meeting or activity.  At this time we only 12 active youth in the Troop.  1 that ages out the next 6 months.  2 that will age out in a little over a year.  A 15 year old that has not wanted to take any leadership responsibilities within the Troop and 8 brand new scouts.  The SPL & ASPL at this time are the two 16 year old that will age out in a little over a year.  The 17 is working on his paperwork for approval of his Eagle Project.   PL and ASP are both one of the brand new scouts.  All the new scouts have just started to bring up the subject of replacing the PL for missing meeting.  At this time the SPL has his hand full getting all the new scouts past the pop tart and P&J menu stage for camping trips among other things.   

Good Information.

Several times in the past our Troop has tried to go from 1 patrol to 2 patrols and usually after several months due to the numbers we have ended back with just 1 patrol.  System we have used is the Troop being boy led by SPL, ASPL, PL, and APL.  SPL and ASPL plans and runs the scout meeting and most activities for unit outings..  PL and APL responsible for running their patrol during activities set up by the SPL and ASPL. 

So ask your EMR teacher if you can take the time off to honor some fallen soldiers. Maybe he's a vet. You won't know until you ask.

 

Think about this Brian. Yes, it won't be easy. You might get ridiculed. You might not. You might also help bring a tear to a parent of someone that has died for their country. You're right it's about self esteem. And this might just be the time where you realize that your self esteem is more about what you choose to do than what your friends choose for you to do. One thing us old farts know is that this change will be coming for you. It came for all of us as well.

 

Good luck. If you choose to accept this mission, we promise you we will dump heaps of praise on you high enough to cancel out anything your lazy friends say.

Man I wish I could post that good of an response.

He is right you know Brian.

I know you will do the right thing.

Thanks all , most responses I’ve gotten this quick ever.

 

Just found out from a friend I have EMR (Emergency Medical Responder) certification training apart of my program that day and unaware if the instructor will let us out.

I would inform the teacher that asked you to do the Flag Ceremony about this possible conflict, then go from there.  You might be surprised.

There is only one person in this world that you can control how they feel and act and that one person is yourself.  From reading some of your post in the last few week I get the feeling that you are a Boy Scout because you want to be a Boy Scout.  You have to be happy with your own actions because in the long run you are the only one that controls your own self esteem.

We have our dutch oven riddled flag, now a bit dirty with festooned with several decades of camp awards etc. Boys like to bring in more than the US Flag. When they do flag ceremony inside they frequently do the whole red beret, white gloves, and red cord deal just because THEY like to look snappy....so it is OK with me.

 

Coincidentally we were just at a special Veterans Day concert combining two high school bands, multi-media, and a 103 veteran of WWII and somehow when 500 odd people rose to give the pledge they couldn't find a US Flag! Needed some Boy Scouts,,,give them 5 minutes they would have found one!

Yep that would be us.  Would probably be one that we had been give to retire that we had in one of our auto.   

If one has both, great.  If not, it's not the end of the world.  The minimum requirement is the US Flag, anything else is pomp and circumstances.  White gloves, snappy movements, sharp commands, and whatever one wishes to add is good.  But when all is said and done.  The unit flag, state flag, and everything else is not really necessary.  Respect and the US Flag.  That works for me.

That the way I feel.  I am just glad that our unit is now in the position to purchase a Troop Flag. 

Is this emblematic of folks being less charitable to Boy Scouts, less charitable in general, or to scouts and troops having to deal with increased fees to national?

Consider, registering 20 members would have been $300 cheaper just a decade ago. That buys a lot of flag.

In my area yes the Boy Scouts have gotten more expensive since I was a youth but folks are still just as charitable as they at that time.  The made difference is the local resources are not where near where they were when I was a youth to the scouting program due to the decline in my area in population an other changes in the local economy.  These changes have really effected  the scouting program in my area in the following way due to the changes in support that the scouting program was supported since my youth. 

Just a little history of scouting in my area.  First Troop was chartered in 1911.  The biggest supporter of the scouting program was a local textile company that is no longer in existence.  This is how that company supported the scouting program in our area until the mid 1980's.  Each of the 7 small communities in our area had a scout hut that was owner and maintained by this company.  Today only one is left.  Most were sold by the unit sponsoring intuitions after they received ownership from the local council and are now in private ownership.  This company also paid all registration fee's and Boy's Life  for all scout units in the area.  The company also paid for a complete scout uniform for each adult that worked for the company and paid them for time missed from there job when attending scouting activities.  If a youth's parent worked for the company they would pay for a completed uniform for that youth.  Also each youth in the program had at least one parent that worked for the company.  Besides the above the company paid all cost for rank advancements and merit badges earned by all youth inside the council.

Where it has really hurt the units in my area since that time is that this company was the real sponsoring intuition of all the units even though they were not the one listed on each units charter.  Even thought it has been close to 30 years most of the local sponsoring institutions are still living in the past when it comes to the scout units that they sponsor.  Its a battle we fight every day.   

Our Troop has not had a Troop Flag since our flag was destroyed when the SM at that time house burned down about 15 years ago.  Since that time we had looked into getting a new flag several times with the last time being 4-5 years ago.  At those times with the only option being a flag with embroidered lettering the price of the flag was just more than the troop could afford.  Yes the embroidered flags look better but how many units have had to make the decision not to get a unit flag just due to the cost.   

I'm not sure if you're suggesting that my husband did anything wrong as a Webelos leader, and I don't think he did.  He was a fine den leader and now serves as an ASM, showing up at pretty much everything so that the troop has adults available. I know his used the older book, and my den used the newer book, and I don't know exactly what they covered.  Just because and adult is there, doesn't mean they're an interfering adult.  Den leaders have responsibilities, and what I remember in the Webelos / Arrow of light curriculum was about getting started with learning the patrol method, not mastering it. 

I wish I have a nickel for every time I have told a new scout have they asked their PL when they have asked me a question even though I could have given them the answer.

Time for the Scouts to prepare for the 'skills instruction' or to contact someone who will help them.

Time to gather necessary equipment & consumables for the skills instruction and interpatrol activity.

Then after the meeting then.

A fellow committee member has suggested a plan to monitor how boys are doing with their positions of responsibilities. He has suggested a monthly formal meeting between the boy and the mentor. A scorecard would be used. My guess is that it would take about 20 minutes per boy to complete. Each mentor (SM or ASM) works with 3 boys, so this is about an hour per month, plus time needed to prepare, plus time reviewing the scorecards with the committee.

 

Another approach is much less formal. The mentor works with the boy, encourages him, coaches him along the way. If at the end of his term, the boy has done okay, then the mentor signs off in his book. The mentor lets the boy and the committee know if there are major problems that may require the boy to be replaced if not corrected. In general, feedback between the mentor and boy is ongoing, but not formal unless that is what is needed.

 

I would be interested in what you do in your troops. How formal is the interaction between mentor and boy? Does anyone use scorecards for this?

Just my opinion, but it is not the job of the unit committee to monitor how each boy is doing in their position of reasonability.  Let me take that back they can monitor by getting feedback from the SM on how the SM on how they are feeling the position, but that is all.    Also for advancement purposes if the youth holds the position then they are signed off on that position no matter how good are bad a job they did in that position.  It is alright for the SM to meet with the SPL to help him become a better SPL, but when it comes to the other youth positions it should be left to the SPL and the other youth in the troop mentor them in their position. 

Our Troop has only canceled one camping trip.  The reason that the trip was canceled by the unit leaders was because we had just started the troop and it was going to be the first camping trip for all the boys inside the troop.  The weather report was for high winds with 100 % rain all weekend and high temperature all weekend in the mid thirties.  As unit leaders we knew cold weather the boys could deal with but cold and wet was a different story.  This camping trip which is a District Camporee the last full weekend in January is one that we have attended every years since an with the same weather conditions we would now attend as a unit.  The difference is the boys inside the troop are now trained an know how deal with thoughts type weather conditions where the boys that would have been on the canceled trip were not trained. 

About a year later on another camping trip we waited to Saturday morning instead of Friday evening to leave due to tornado warning for a storm front moving thru the area we were going to be camping.    

Sounds like a kid can get busted and hauled off to jail for a lemonade stand where ValleyBoy lives.   Times sure have changed.  I looked forward to snow days from school because it meant lots of snow and a whole day of shoveling! 

 

Up until she passed, I always did a freebie for the elderly lady next door.  After every snow storm she got her walk shoveled in case of a medical emergency.  Her son lived a hour away and couldn't always make it right away.  Never said a word, but she always knew who did it. 

 

And what does the city say about a scout fundraiser where everyone goes out and shovels walks for a donation?

Yes times have changed.  My son who is a senior in college did cut the grass of the elderly couple that lived next door to us until they passed away several years ago.  He also still does  all the yard maintenance   for another older couple that we know. Both paid him for the work he done..  He and both couples knew if asked by the city code enforcement officer or any one else that he was only helping them because they  were unable to do the yard work themselves.

In our area it does not snow so I can only guess what  the city would say if it did snow and sidewalks and driveways need to be shoveled.  But my best guess would be that it would only be OK with the City if the Home owner was only asked if they wanted there sidewalk/driveway shoveled the word donation could not be used.  My city likes to look for anyway they can to make money and if any type service is provided that is also provided by any business and money changes hand they wont there cut.

BSA has always suggested that boys do small fundraising projects like collecting recyclables, mowing lawns, raking leaves, shoveling sidewalks, washing cars, etc.. This is what I meant by boys planning and running their own fundraisers. 

 

These small fundraisers are not at all inconsistent with the scouting ideal of pay your own way. So it is not really a question of "which is it".

In our city our scouts ( or anyone else) can mow lawns or rake leafs an receive a fee for those services without a city business license.  Do you want  us as adults  to allow our youth to break the law.  Per city law they could only do the above as "Good Deeds" 

Closest location that buys recyclables is so far away that by the time to you take the cost to  transport the recyclables to them your in the hole.

Does not snow in our area plus sidewalk shoveling would fall under the same city laws as mowing lawns.

So out of your list that only leaves car washing as a fund raising idea that our boys can use with out breaking the law inside our city.

Now our boys have had a yard sale in the past an made and were able to make all of an average of less than 10 dollars each.  Location were yard sale is held can only have a total of 6 yard sales a year lasting only 1 day each with a no cost city yard sale permit. 

One thing I do know is that breaking the law is not part of the BSA program.

Just as curiosity what happens when a Council collapses...it seems the facilities get folded (at least for a time) into the neighboring council. Does the by-laws let them do that? 

I will try and answerer this for you.  My local District that I am a member of way a Council until I believe 1991 when it became a part of our present neighboring council.  The Council that was collapsing was merged into the other Council by a merger agreement. between the 2 councils.  The new council received the old Councils Trust Fund that per the agreement only the interest earned could be used by the new Council and the principle could never be touched.  Also the new Council agreed to keep the old Council area covered as one of it Districts with the District name being the name of the old Council.  Also the New Council received the old Councils Scout Camp and agreed to maintain the Camp.  In the early 2000's  the new Council planned  to sell the old Camp  until they were informed by present scouters that were aware that the Camp was not owned by the Boy Scouts but held in trust by the Boy Scouts just as long as the Boy Scouts did not abandon the Camp.   

No it isn't. The boys are supposed to pay their own way.

True but our Troop will never turn a boy away because he and his family does not have the resources to pay the actual full cost for him to be in the program.  All we ask of each boy is that they do there best.  

David CO, you have hit on the next problem for these Scouts.  Who is doing what?   Is the Troop Committee supporting the SM and doing things "Transparently", or is the Substitute Sub Committee To Do Things Right Regardless Of What Anyone Else Thinks  doing things anyway? 

 

I think a Troop Flag should read the whole title, not be concerned with shaving cost by less letters, but  to "secretly" order the flag is both a really neat gift and an insult to the SM and his colleagues.  This is the very first flag the Troop has had, yes?   This might lead to a ceremonial presentation, a autographing of the flag by the SM  for history's sake...Is the SM appreciated, or resented somehow?

 

My home Troop , has been in business about 62 years now.  Four  years ago, it was realized the drooping, darkened Troop Flag AND the US flag next to it on the stage were both the same flags the Troop had in 1956 !   The US flag had 48 Stars!   Nobody had realized it  til then !   We went out and replaced the Troop Flag and US flag but no one could think of what to do with them.   So they are wrapped up in plastic in the back church closet.   The new flag has the new SM's signature on it, for the next 60 years.

Yes the Troop Committee supporting the scoutmaster.

The SM brought up the subject of the flag.  I have work with the SM inside the scouting program for 13 years and have know him for even longer and in no way will he insulted by these parents ordering this flag behind his back.