ValleyBoy

We had one scout troop that would only campout at our local scout camp.  They would always camp in the same campsite. 

We have a boy who is not disabled and can swim he just will not jump in over his head and do the swim test. Because of this, he is at Tenderfoot rank for about 2 yrs. We have tried a number of times to help him get over this fear but its not working.  Can he use a life jacket when he jumps in and/or face mask that covers his eyes and nose?  Like I said he CAN swim its just the jumping in that is the problem. 

 

CAN he use the life jacket?

From what I am understanding the boys problem with the swimming requirement is jumping into the water that is over his head. Once he is in the water he has no problem swimming.   Is the scouts fear of jumping into the water over his head an fear of his head going under water or only the jumping in part.

 

@NJScouter

 

I think you have hit the nail on the head. I have lots of experience with the BSA, GSUSA, Girl Guides of Canada and a little less experience with Scouts Canada. The BSA is the only program that I've been involved in for over 12 years that is 'family friendly/heavy family involvement'.  Before everyone flips out let me explain.

 

GSUSA, GGC and SC all encourage families to be active in the programs but they want the scouts to grow and develop without the parents present every moment of the time. All 3 organizations encourage the parent to drop off the scout at the meeting room, leave while the meeting is going on and come back at the designated time to pick their scout up. Parents aren't normally in attendance for unit meetings and on site activities. When it comes to camping and field trips the same method applies. Parents may be invited to camp or go on a field trip with the group if extra adults are needed for ratios or transportation, but the scout doesn't go to camp/field trip with a parent in tow. Scouts learn independence from a very early age (first grade). Scouts in these programs even go to summer residence camps of 3-7+ days in length without parents and depending on the association without unit leaders too. Leadership in these programs (especially GGC and SC) also tend not to be parents of current scouts either. Parents are free to observe anytime they want but it is highly discouraged. Drop and go.

 

As a father of a GS and a BS, I have to say that my experience differs significantly.

 

The adult leaders in every GS troop my daughter has been a part of (4 in total), a mother of a GS was the leader and all other leaders where moms of GS in that troop. I also often dropped off my son at his cub scout meetings and picked him up later when it was over. Parents that were not volunteers came and went as they pleased during our meetings but were in no way involved.

 

As a man, I can't say that my attendance at any GS event was EVER "high discouraged" and I would find such behavior by any volunteer leader to be both very off-putting and suspicious to the point that if it continued, I would either confront them or seek out a new troop. I have participated in literally dozens of GS events as a father and never once felt pressure to leave or not attend (though I take make a stink twice with the fact that their GS surveys always ask if my daughter feels like that she spends more time with her "mother" due to GS instead of asking if she felt that she spent more time with her "caregiver" due to GS - which would be the more politically correct and gender/family neutral term).

 

 

BSA wants Mommy/Daddy/other adult with each scout for Lions and Tigers. Most packs want the parent around through Webelos. Then it is culture shock when the scout reaches the troop level that parents aren't truly 'welcome' anymore. On top of the burn out we all talk about on these forums this culture shock IMHO is a main driver in the drop out rate between AoL and first year troop. I had 12 scouts from Tiger to AoL. Only 3 stuck with the program after AoL. 4 scouts were only children and their parents weren't keen on letting their darlings out of their sight. One actually told another parent and myself that since we had more than 1 child that we had a spare kid if something happened to our boys. They didn't have a spare so they were going to protect him at all costs and not let him out of their sight for a few more years. Lost touch with those families after that.

 

Again, not my experience at all. The Patrol Method should not equal exclusion of parents. We often have non-volunteer parents at meetings and at camp events. Doesn't mean that the patrol method changes based on their attendance. As far as burn out or drop out rate, I can only speak from anecdotal experience but my son's patrol has not lost a single scout since they crossed over from Web 2 last December.

 

The scouting program doesn't function well with adults present in too large a number. Kids can't grow and become confident in their abilities when adults hover. The BSA for all its fussing that helicopter parents aren't what is appropriate sure does push that to happen when they insist on parental attendance at meetings/events/camps. 

 

I agree with the hover but attendance need not equal hovering.

 

Girls in the BSA isn't what we all need to be afraid of. Too many parents that don't understand the program and don't know how to let go is our real issue. The BSA has made a leap to be like the rest of the WOSM, but how long till they adopt policies that will actually help scouting improve? It sounds harsh but we need to ditch more of the adult attendance/interaction at activities. Let the scouts work the program with just enough adults to meet ratios, get the rest out. No unit should be registering more adults than kids. Adults need to be trained and parents need to keep their distance. 

 

My only fear with girls coming into the program is more parents that want to meddle with scouting. 

 

Meh. Train the parents like you train the scouts. We had at least two parent meetings when my son crossed over that dealt with how Boy Scouts are different than Cub Scouts. If your troop does a good job of teaching new Boy Scout parents, then I don't see why this would be an issue. If parents are inappropriately hovering then the problem is that the parents haven't been properly educated.

 

Correct you have to train the parent just as you have to train the scouts.  With youth and parents crossing over from the cub scouts we stress with them that we operate differently with the troop than the way a pack operates.  Also if a parent is a Merit Badge Councilor they can only be the councilor for there on child with all work being done in a troop setting with other unit leaders present. and only if we have no other Merit Badge Councilor for that badge.   

As a unit leader I would never tell a parent that they could not stay at a meeting or go on  a camping trip.  So far we have not had any problems with any of the parents that have attended any of these events.

What's wrong with taking 4 years for Eagle?  I know very few who took less time than 4 years to get Eagle.  As NJCubScouter says, 75 would be reasonable as well.  I certainly don't think that 20 camping nights is enough for Eagle.  

Just my opinion, but I do not know of any Eagle Scout that could meet all the qualifications  for Eagle Scout with only 20 nights camping.  Nothing wrong with taking 4 years but as adult leaders we cannot add more requirements for each rank than required by National.  

Our council requires all adults Youth Protection to be current for the entire unit charter year  at recharter. so for our unit who's recharter is from Jan 1 to Dec 31 of each year each adult who's youth protection expires before Dec 31 of the charter year has retake YPT.  

 I would personally add 100 nights of camping to the Eagle Requirements (I would allow, however, multiple long term camps to count for half of it).    The true Eagles in my Troop had met that requirement.   

Throw in some week long adventures (NYLT, hiking trips, sea base, philmont) it is doable. We had a number of boys get 130+ while doing other extra circulars in High School.

Yes it is doable but I do not feel like adding 100 nights of camping as an additional requirement for the Eagle Scout rank is in the best interest of the program.  Since I have been involved with present troop we had had 4 youth Earn the rank of Eagle Scout. and I would say that each one of them had 100 nights of camping if you counted every night they attended with the troop,  Every night during Summer Camp.  Every night on an OA event (2 Eagles), National Jamboree (1 Eagle) and Phimont (1 Eagle).  Then again each of these 4 youth were in the program since they met the age requirement to join the troop and earn completed there last Eagle requirement just before they turned 18.. 

Our scout that attended the National Jamboree during his Jr year of High School missed both weeks of Band Camp since they at the same time as Jamboree.  Also our Troop has never had over 10-15 active youth at any given time over the last 10 years  and we usually have to work out Troops camping schedule around our 4 active Adults work and family schedule.  We will only schedule a camping trip if we have 3 adults due to the fact that sometimes something can come up and one of the adults will not be able to make the camping trip..  Also due to our jobs the SM and I are usually on call for our work and have had to leave during a camping trip.  Due to this most of our weekend camping trips are within 25 miles of our hometown.     

OK lets say 100 nights.  In the troop I work with it would take a youth 4 years to meet this requirement.  As a unit wee normally have 10 weekend campouts a year and one long term camp. (Summer Camp) which is 26 nights a year.  So for a youth to meet this requirement he would have to have the long term camp all 4 years and could only miss 2 weekend camping trips over a 4 year period to meet this requirement. 

Yes it is doable but I feel like it would be over kill for a youth that has met all the other Eagle requirements.  .

Council registration fee?  I have never heard of a Council requiring and fee on top of the national registration fee. 

Our unit does do a FOS presentation each year but does not do popcorn sales.  Several years ago our unit was informed by council that  our unit would not be able to use Council property if we did not sell popcorn.  Our units answer was so what, we have so many other different places  to go camping that we did not have to use Council property if we did not want too.  Also our Scoutmaster informed our Council Executive of how much the company that he worked for gave the Council each year and that that money could stop being given.  Our Scoutmaster . company  Chairman of the Board has told our Scoutmaster several years before that the company would stop giving to the Scouts each year on only the Scoutmasters word.  Needless to say the Council backed down.

It is a fair question for an Eagle Board of Review.  There are no right or wrong answers to the questions that are asked during an Eagle Board of Review.  Now are there questions that should not be asked during the board of review.  Yes but I do not feel like this is one of them.  A better question could be his opinion about girls also being able to become Eagle Scouts starting in 2019.   

New to this forum but an Old Dog in the scouting program.

I earned the rank of Eagle Scout in 1978.  I stayed involved in the program until the early 80's and did not get back involved in the program until 2002 when my son joined the Cub Scouts.  I ending up becoming the Packmaster of by sons pack by default and severed in that position for 3 years.  Was also the districts Cub Scout Day Camp Director for 2 years.  Took over as Scoutmaster of our local Troop right before my son crossed over from the Cub Scouts an severed in that position for 6 years until I stepped down to the Assistant Scoutmaster position.  For the last 6 years I have been a member of our Districts advancement committee sitting on Eagle Project and Eagle Scout board of reviews.  Also for the last 2 years I have also served as a Unit commissioner.