ValleyBoy

Our Troops official number is 9009.  The troop was 9 until our local council merged into another council.  The only time we use 9009 is on paperwork, other than that we refer to troop as Troop 9.

1 hour ago, Jameson76 said:

So - The United States Flag Code, Title 4, Section 8k states-“The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem of display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning.”

Pretty much that is about the only instruction.  There are many ways to do this is a dignified manner, and that interpretation (dignified manner) would be up to the unit and those performing the retirement

My Troop retires around 200 flags a year.  The above is correct.  The only thing that we absolutely do not do is refer to the flag retirement as a flag burning.    We different people bring us a flag to be retired and tell us that they have a flag to be burned we tell them that we see a US Flag burning as a protest against our great country therefore we do not burn flags but retire the Flag by fire.  

12 minutes ago, PinkPajamas said:

In my excitement for lifeguard training this weekend I started looking at all the aquatics patches that can be earned. I found them in the guide to insignia but it only shows an example of boxer style bathing suits. Is there a proper placement for women's one piece suits, other than the generic "left" or "right" side description given?

Good question since females usually do not wear boxer style swim wear.

One of the reasons that we require our scouts to wear closed toe shoes on all scout outings.

3 hours ago, Liz said:

"A chartered organization may also have “linked troops,” which means a shared troop committee with separate troops for boys and for girls." 

https://scoutingmagazine.org/2018/10/hello-scouts-bsa/

So, nope. Same committee overseeing both troops. Not just the same people sitting on two committees. 

Back to your regularly scheduled forum thread...

Thanks for sharing the link.  I was not aware that the troop's could use the same number.  Now I can see where with the start up of the new girl troops that by having the same committee would make it easier to  get the new girl unit started.  My guess would be that each of the two troops have a separate charter.  My question would be since both troops have the same CO do they have to have the same  committee. The reason i ask this question is that i know that in the past a Pack and a Troop with the same CO could have have the same adults registered  CC and unit committee members.  I also know that this is not the ideal situation.

I still do not like the term linked troops.  But I do understand why the term is being used. 

2 hours ago, Treflienne said:

One new issue, caused by the presence of girls, is the linked troop structure.   While I am very pleased to hear about @Cburkhardt's success with a non linked troop,   for those of us with small girls' troops in not-quite-so-densely populated areas, and with scouters (parents of the girls) who don't have the years of experience working with BSA scout troops,   the mentoring that is available from the linked boys' troops is invaluable.    But that raises lots of new questions about best practises:  Just how to structure the linkage?   Do we do any activities jointly or all separately?  Which ones?   Do individual adults on the committee focus on one troop or the other, or  on both?   Etc. Etc.   Hearing about other troops experiences (good and bad) would be helpful.  

First, I am in no way against Girls being Scouts inside the program.  I am against and do not in no way like the term linked troops.  As far as the question about the committee each of the troops have there own committee even though  as in your case the members of both committee's might be the same.  If a person is a member of both troops committee they should be  focused on both troops and show NO FAVORTISM of one troop over the other.  if they show favoritism to one troop over the other that they are a member of the committee they need to remove there self as a member of that committee.  It is the same for  Pack and Troops that share the same charter organization.  Each is there own separate unit and should be treated as such. 

To the question of activities each unit should have there own  since they are separate Troops and in reality all they should have in common is the same CO.  Do not fall in the trap of thinking that just because the troop is small due to your location that the troop can not be a good scout troop.  This goes for both troops of boys and also for troops of girls.    Is it all right to have some join activities such as a join camping trip,  YES, but remember it is two separate troops that are on the trip and that each has its own youth leadership that have to work together as equals.  Just and FYI my troop for the past 4 years has attended summer camp with another local troop because of the issue of two deep leadership for summer camp.  We have also had several join camping trips with this same troop.  The stories us adults could tell around a campfire about join camping trips with another troop.  The stories are all good with nothing bad that could not be told in mixed company. 

As far as scouters who do not have the experience working with a BSA scout troop it is not rocket science.  Visit other troops be a fly on the wall, talk to other unit leaders on forums such as this one, or at roundtable or other local district or council activities.

45 minutes ago, rmcmillin said:

Can you tell me what the colors of the knee sock tossles signified?

Green was Boy Scouts.

40 minutes ago, Liz said:

Is this one a regular square or rectangle shaped cover? Or is it more kite-shaped? Homemade or purchased? Tarp or nylon rip-stop? 

Not really sure since I stole the picture off the web, but either type could be set up in this configuration.

Congratulations Brian.

I feel the same way as you do Shortridge. Do we tell a 16 year old scout that has drivers license that they can not drive there self to a merit badge university because the unit cannot supply 2 deep leadership to the event and there parents have to be at work.  No we do not.  I sure do not want  to be the one to tell the scout he cannot attend

14 minutes ago, T2Eagle said:

The requirement for female leadership when female youth are present is universal, it covers all scouting activities not just unit activities. "A registered female adult leader 21 years of age or over must be present for any activity involving female youth."

Let me ask a question.  Is the unit in compliance if the registered adult female leader was in the adult campsite with no youth in that campsite and 2 registered adult male leaders were in the youth campsite over 100 yards away out of sight of the adult campsite instructing a scouting skill. If this is a violation of YP there would be YP violations at every council and district activities such as camporees and summer camp where a registered adult female was not present each camporee event or each merit badge class that had a female youth taking part in the event or class.  

23 minutes ago, walk in the woods said:

Are you sure?  If your three-person Eagle board is all male, it will not be in compliance with YP for a female Eagle candidate unless the candidate's parent is also in the room.

 

Female or Coed units have to have at least one adult female at all unit activities to meet the YP guidelines.  An Eagle Board is not a unit activity but a district/council activity. 

58 minutes ago, allangr1024 said:

In our district the scout meets with an Eagle project approval committee of three adult volunteer scouters.  Youth protection is not a problem.

We do the same in our district.. 

In Alabama we would call that one very big biscuit.

40 minutes ago, reeddma said:

It took almost two months for your District/Council to review your Eagle binder prior to scheduling the Board???  Very sad what we still put Scouts through to get to Eagle. 

And if this was simply the Eagle Project Workbook, they don't approve it after you've completed the project.  There is no spot for their signature except for approving the project proposal.   

In the Eagle process there a 3 different times that the scout has to go for a review.

First.  For approval of the Eagle Project.

Second  Review of the Eagle Project

Third   Eagle Board of Review.

On every Eagle Board of Review that I have been a member off when have done the second and third one at the same time.  In some Councils their procedure could be that each of the 3 above is done at a separate time or it could have been in Brian's case that he had completed his project and the second review was held  then the third and final board was held later after he completed other requirements for Eagle..

Example.  One month into being a Life Scout Eagle Project is approved.  4 months as a Life Scout Eagle project is completed and presented for approval.  2 months later Eagle Board of Review.

5 minutes ago, ianwilkins said:

I think a previous reply has put one side of the picture and so...

As I understand it, there's a range of options. The scale goes from

1:  A CO that has a Boys and Girls Troop that share everything except an SM. They might meet same place same time and share the same gear ASMs committee etc. This walks like a co-ed duck, and quacks like a co-ed duck

to

50: A CO that only has a Boys troop, or indeed only has a Girls Troop. They may never go on any big campouts anywhere that ever have any opposite gender Troops at it.

There will be every shade in between.

All points on the scale are allowed under the rules.

No point railing against 1, when if what you want is a 50, go find it, or go make it happen.

 

The bolded above is where I see the troop that I am a member of being in the future.  The only activities that the troop takes part in that will change is summer camp which has had girl members of the camp staff which will now include girl troop that could be attending camp the same week as our troop..  The only other activity that the troop take part in is a Camporee the last weekend in January which will now include all girl troops which will not be a major change since for the past several years there have been venture crew with girl members that have attended this event.

5 minutes ago, mashmaster said:

Hard to know specifically what to do since I don't know the details.  As a Scoutmaster in my previous life, I would always welcome a conversation with a parent about how we can best help their son.  I wouldn't even address dad on this issue, the Scoutmaster will want what is best for your son.  You may find out that this troop isn' the right fit and a different troop is a better fit.  I would start with buying coffee for the Scoutmaster and talking to him/her about the situation.  

Also talk to your son about why he no longer wants to go.  If it is embarassment, let him know we have all failed in the past and life is about learning from your failures.  His Scoutmaster can be helpful in encouraging him to come back.  It isn't cub scouts so the boys need to be independant but the scoutmasters can help guide them.

Thread on why her son was suspended from the troop for 6 months. 

7 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

Just curious... what do you use your membership card for?  I have a note on my phone with my ID number, so have never used my card.  Just curious when you use your card.  For packs this makes sense as I think most kids/parents throw them out or lose them. 

The certificates sit in a plastic file cabinet in my office.   I guess it is nice for historical purposes.... but again if this saves paper and cost (as most units probably won’t even print them out) it seems like it could be a good idea.

 

The only  time I have even had to use my membership card was for the discount admission price for the National Scout Museum over 6 years ago. 

This issue comes down to just issue. as I see it, Is there a higher power or is there no high power.  A true atheism belief is that there is no higher power.   The Scouting program is based on the belief that there is a higher power since  "to God" is included in the scout oath and "Reverent" in the scout law.  

For the scout program to remove the belief that there is a higher power would be a complete change in the core values of the scouting program.

30 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

I see BSA and scouting at approaching the same cross roads the YMCA crossed.  Faith versus community.  When I was young, our local YMCA had a big cross at the entrance and crosses in meeting rooms and other significant places.  The YMCA was very very much a Christ based organization with strong ties to local churches.  Now, the crosses and ties to local churches are all but gone.  Still in the title, but the rest is mostly gone.   

Most customers of the YMCA saw the YMCA as a local organization for exercise and community.  It was created and supported by the churches for much of it's life, but the customers shifted to viewing it as a community organization and not a faith organization.  

Hospitals and school systems went through this too.  Our hospitals started as Catholic or protestant extensions to serve the community.  Now, most still have the name and often a cross, but the nuns and most of the religious aspects are gone.  

BSA is at the cross roads now.  Most customers see BSA as far more a community and civic organization.  Customers with religious values see BSA as compatible with their faith, but not a key faith building tool.  Likewise, most charter orgs view their BSA support as a part of their supporting the community.  Very few view it as a key part of faith development and even fewer have a "youth pastor" or similar running the troop.  Most view BSA as teaching outdoors, leadership, civics or just helping kids man-up.  Few really view it as a deep faith program. 

I pray BSA never loses the key tenants of "Duty to God"... , but I do believe the program should be truly open to all.   Too often we teach our scouts how to skirt the faith issue.  I think that's a poor civics lesson and a poor character trait.  I'd rather BSA have strong elements of faith; being a very visible aspect of scouting.  BUT, let's support those of no faith and teach each other how to respect each other.   

 

The main reason I am involved in the scouting program is the values taught within the scouting program which I see as falling inline with my own religious beliefs.  Within the scouting program I do not hide my religious beliefs but I also  do not push them onto anyone else that is a member of the scouting movement.   If a scout asks me about my beliefs I will share my beliefs with them, then let them make there own decision.

10 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

Ok, good.  I am pretty sure that is what the BSA's policy is.  I also believe that BSA does not require the wearing of the flag patch by a Scout whose religious beliefs forbid it.  Maybe his relative never noticed the flag patch.  (Or maybe Jehovah's Witnesses are ok with wearing the flag patch, but I am pretty sure they aren't.)

Also I do know that he has completed Scout requirement 1f. Repeat from memory the Pledge of Allegiance. In your own words, explain its meaning.  I do not believe he was required to stand at attention and salute while repeating the pledge.

1 hour ago, NJCubScouter said:

Does that mean he is required to salute the flag and say the Pledge of Allegiance even though his religion tells him not to?

Just out of curiosity, does he wear the American Flag patch on his uniform?

Yes he has the flag on his uniform.  We have required him to stand at attention during the pledge and the rest of our Troop opening along with everyone else at the meeting.  We have not told him that he has to say the pledge or salute during the pledge. 

On ‎12‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 12:32 AM, The Latin Scot said:

First of all, I think it strange and perhaps somewhat insensitive to group atheists and Jehovah's Witness together; they are as utterly different in their beliefs (or lack thereof) as any two groups can be. Secondly, Duty to God is an integral, inherent part of Scouting - if you remove that element of its composition, in my book, it will cease to be Scouting, regardless of what organization (even the BSA if it comes to that) may claim to be running it. The Scouting program and its methods, as created by Baden-Powell and build up by the likes of Seton, Beard and Hillcourt, is a religious program, yet at the same time absolutely non-denominational. That's one of the wonders of its foundation, and it has worked beautifully for generations. But remove that central core of duty to God, and ... well, in my book, it's no longer Scouting, and it's no longer going to work. That's not being judgemental - that's integrity. But upholding a standard of membership is not discourteous. If you are looking for a totally non-religious organization to take you camping and teach you life-skills, Scouting isn't for you - but there are many other good and supportive organizations who can help. Look for one that already suits you rather than change the one that suits somebody else.

We have a Jehovah Witness that joined our troop several months ago.  His grandmother informed us that he does not say the Pledge of Allegiance or salute the flag since in there Church they see it as Idol worship.  She has been told that in our Troop we will salute the flag while saying  the Pledge of Allegiance,  This is one point in the scouting program that we will not change as a unit.  Also as adult leaders of the unit we have informed the unit committee that as leaders of the unit  we will hold this youth to the same requirements for advancement  as the other scouts when it comes to the subject  of the Pledge of Allegiance and any Flag ceremony that the Troop takes part in.     

Camp Comer, Alabama 1972

Camp Pine Mountain, Georgia 1974  Staff 1975-1977