Jameson76

Somebodies got to do the jokes and heckles from the back of the room, they aren't writing themselves

Saw our CSE, interesting comments from him.  Apparently the drop in numbers for BSA is all about the change in families

"And you think about how families then, in the '70s, '80s and '90s, started to change," he said. "More pressures on the family. More activities for children. Moms now are in the workforce. But because we didn't adapt our program design, we just had a slow, steady erosion."

Partially true, but unless an organization / business / group really, well and truly, understands the issues, they will no doubt repeat them.  Basically CSE is blaming the decline on influences outside the organization.  A very shallow and simplistic view.

Membership declines had nothing to do with the wholesale change in the program in 1974, the continued emphasis on everything BUT outdoor skills and leadership, not fully understanding where your user base is coming from, not the large membership accuracy issues pretty much every decade, not a large professional base more attuned to fund raising than delivery of program, etc etc etc.

Scouting is a great program, one that teaches leadership and self reliance.  Unfortunately we seem to be moving to just another after school program in may ways.  Stick to the strong points if you want to grow.

YPT videos are always entertaining, assume this will cover the updates to the Girls in Cubs requirements.  Would be good if they had updates for coed family Girls in Separate Troops  option.  Most likely there will be a 2019 revision 

21 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

I just came back from one of the most depressing District meetings I had been to in years.  There was a proposal to create a council wide camporee for Cubs through Boy Scouts, with a goal of 1,000 Scouts .  The council voted it down as it was not in their best interest.

Was it they just wanted to focus on FOS?  (and popcorn and camp cards and golf tournaments and and and)

We are a successful troop because we have good program and execute it week in and week out.  Also we have and support the feeder packs at the CO who do a good job of providing program to the local area.  We are successful because of our experience and what we do.  The district and council do little to bother us.

Ike had a similar thought

And not sure who advised

“No business plan survives first contact with customers.”

3 minutes ago, Col. Flagg said:

Usually this would have been something you think about before changes are made. Get folks trained. Promote the rules so there's no grey area. 

This potential problem could have been avoided.

1 minute ago, Eagle1993 said:

The separate sleeping arrangements was an area of widespread agreement  ... but I expect some  most Packs to screw that up.

I fixed it for you....

6 minutes ago, Col. Flagg said:

Over/under on when the first lawsuit against BSA concerning the mixing of girls and boys on an overnighter?

You just know some Pack somewhere is going to have a coed Den and not properly separate the kids.

I'm gonna go with soon

9 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

Assuming that is the case, I would question the comment that the pack wouldn't have to pretend.  The pack would be making a direct promise not to do something, and then do it anyway.

Sadly our good friends at BSA National seem to take the path that this is what the policy is today, but if units choose to do something else, it is what it is.  Then when updating policies and using the path of least resistance, they figure it is less hassle to embrace the ones outside the lines than wrangle them back into compliance, so what the heck, let's make up new rules

So...uniforms are optional now??

Just now, RememberSchiff said:

My understanding, STEM scouts in partnership with schools apply and receive government education grants.

No room at all for expanding or massaging the membership numbers with that plan (what!! I'm registered with who??) ... just move along Citizen Scout, nothing to see here

5 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

That is so 2000,

 

Seriously BSA did,  don't know if it is still around, have Scout Soccer from 2000 onwards. 

https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/511-035_wb.pdf

You do in fact learn something new each and every day

Does seem to be in Charlotte, NC and Arizona at least

5 minutes ago, EmberMike said:

Is that also the mission of STEM Scouts? I ask because while I don't know a whole lot about it, my impression of it is that it is separate from the BSA program. 

Well...apparently not, though to some degree.  Oath and Law are not mentioned in the Mission.  They are mentioned in the BSA Connection detail.  We are just one big tent welcoming all now. Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts, Explorers, Ventures, STEM scouts, Learning for Life, STBNAALD (Scouts to be named at a later date)

https://stemscouts.org/about-stem-scouts/

MISSION

Using experiential activities and interaction with STEM professionals, the goal of the STEM Scouts program is to help young people grow in character and skills as they explore their curiosity about STEM fields. It is hoped that their growing knowledge will translate into the STEM-related careers that are so crucial to our country’s future economy. While the program focuses on future careers in STEM, it is ultimately designed to be challenging, thought-provoking and, most importantly, fun.

BSA CONNECTION

A coed program of the Boy Scouts of America (BSA), STEM Scouts offers a scouting experience with less emphasis on the outdoors. STEM Scouts follows the Scout Oath and Law with the goal of producing young men and women who are leaders, display confidence, realize their skills and limitations, are respectful of others’ opinions, are problem solvers in all aspects of life, look for opportunities to serve others, are good citizens and demonstrate integrity in all phases of life.

Assuming this meets the mission

The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law.

Wonder if the nice lady doing science experiments in her kitchen is aware of the mission, or the Scout oath and law?

I suspect we will be doing sports leagues next, though probably, somewhere, that is happening

2 hours ago, ItsBrian said:

I’m not saying that the Eagle Scout is right or anything, he shouldn’t be talking back first of all.

Why do you require closed toe shoes? I understand for camping trips, hikes, events, etc. But if it’s  just a simple meeting why do you need them?

We do it to be consistent.  No open toed shoes at scout functions; meetings, outings, service projects, etc.  Just easier to implement and our meetings are very active.

$600 does seem a might steep. 

We had a long term SM retire.  We did not even entertain a gift card.  We gave him a troop flag folded into one of the display boxes with the troop numbers showing, also we dedicated a portion of the scout area at the CO in his name.  We did invite many of the scouts from his tenure to come to the meeting, then we passed the microphone around and they shared brief memories and thank you's.  That was the best part.

2 minutes ago, Tampa Turtle said:

We got some other Eagle-parents who are fantastic....it is just the Eagle-Helicopter hybrids that get a free pass for a while and muck things up.

Explained to a staff member at summer camp one time that the many pastel colored knots were Cub leader knots and the Red White and Blue knot was the Eagle Scout knot.  He had that look of sudden knowledge and advised that many things made so much more sense now.

4 minutes ago, Tampa Turtle said:

Yeah we got an Eagle parent who does the same stuff. 

Hey now...we're not all that bad.  Many of us like to poke fun at the Woodbadge cult, so that's a plus

5 minutes ago, MattR said:

Getting feedback is my problem. I asked scouts for input on what they'd like. I told them everything was on the table. I asked adults what they thought the scouts would like. I got no feedback. So I wrote up some new events and sent them out and asked for feedback. The adults were no help so I took it to the OA meeting and asked the scouts what they thought. They all liked what I wrote. But none of them are showing up. Again, I'd be more than willing to give this over to someone else but there's no interest.

I get my best feedback on outings and especially to and from outings.  At the outings just walking around and engaging in conversation, also observing.  In the cars listening to what is said as you motor along is good.  The feedback collection can vary, and if scouts think you are actually taking a poll they may not answer.  Have to be conversational.  

My main input would be the scouts have to trust you, yes you are an adult leader, but can they talk with you?  Do you speak to them as Scouts and you are the leader, or do you have a conversation with them as equal partners participating in the Scouting program.  Sometimes adults do have to be the leaders, but more times we need to be partners with the scouts, talk about school, their sports, how they lost social media privileges for whatever reason.

20 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

When I read threads like this one, I struggle with things like "scouting is supposed to be a challenge, and an adventure", "Scouting is a culture that challenges the masculinity of young men", etc. I've got absolutely no idea what that means. 

Those concepts are clearly in the eye of the beholder.  Some feel that Scouts need to do everything and by some magic they will know what to do even if it fails.  Other feel they can do it but adults need to sort of keep them between the ditches on the road traveled, others feel the kids do not know anything and they will just do it

No clear definition.  Key is to make sure the program functions in some way.  Scouts not reserving a camping site so an outing is cancelled while yes that may be a learning experience, could have been avoided and has a negative program impact on everyone.  Scout not bringing all the needed supplies for an outing, sure that is a learning experience.and is a positive in the end

13 hours ago, MattR said:

 There seems to be fewer scouts interested in a challenge, at least in my neck of the woods. We used to have 2 high adventure trips a year plus summer camp and all of them were always full. Now it's a struggle to fill one trip a year and summer camp is down. I'm the new district camping chair and this weekend is klondike. We have 38 scouts signed up, for the whole district! I used to have more scouts from just my troop show up. But it's not my troop because nearly half the scouts going to klondike are from my troop. And it's not just the scouts. I didn't really want to be the district camping chair. After 12 years as SM I just wanted a break. I'm the first to admit that someone younger and more enthusiastic would be better. But nobody else will step up.

It's really hard to challenge a young man when this is the attitude.

I don't know, maybe your point has already been made. We've lost. I don't know where that drive that wants a challenge comes from. Where a sense of adventure is born. I just don't see it often in the scouts today. The few I see it in are pushed down by peer pressure. Yes, kids these days are busy. They're so busy they can't even dream. Or wonder. Or imagine anything other than what's on their todo lists. Who knows, maybe national should add a first class requirement to discuss how much free time a scout has and track what he does with it for 12 weeks.

You need to evolve and understand what drives interest or what does not drive interest,  Candidly that varies with your troop and particular group of scouts.  On the Klondike, maybe it has become stale, perhaps it is what some long term adult leaders feel a Klondike should be.  Get feedback on why they do not want to go and do a reboot of the event.

With our troop (a large one) we have doubled our Scouts as outings in the last 5 years.  Basically we looked at the data we had (what drew scouts what did not) then working with the TLC asked the WHY behind the data.  Then we challenged them to plan and initiate what do you want to see.  Basically we came up with some key elements

• No advancement / school type outings, too much of that M - F
• In the fall only SAT and SUN due to Friday night football
• Have a key activity, but also they do not want to over schedule, leave time for cards with friends
• Have levels of challenge (we do a biking on a rails to trail, some ride 25 miles / some 50 miles)
• Not too late on Sunday afternoons, school work beckons
• They challenged the troop leaders with some ideas, we worked with them on how to implement and they had ownership
• Beach / gorge exploration / ropes courses
• No district camporees (They were lame apparently)

We had low attendance at the end of the school year outings in May due to exams, sports finals, etc.  The TLC wanted to do a Lock-in.  So we worked with the CO, now we do one from Fri to Sat morning.  Huge participation.  Some leave early, some come late.  Video games literally all night, dodge ball and nerf engagements.  Successful because that is what they wanted and we as leaders worked with them to bring it about

We get really good feedback at BOR's and try to use that to improve the program.  Still some work to be done on the meetings and scout instructors

2 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

Hogan's Heroes, but that show is a whole other subject.

Hogan's Heroes was on one night and my son (maybe 9th grade at the time) watched the episode.  First we had to get beyond officers and enlisted men in the same POW camp, but then he said..so the Nazis were just fun loving guys??  I explained it was the 60's and that you had to sort of roll with it.  

Then we found Rat Patrol....

On 1/29/2018 at 5:24 PM, gblotter said:

Isn't it enough to just acknowledge the other Eagle Scouts in the room by asking them to briefly stand?

We like to have all the Eagles in the room join in a rousing rendition of the Big Joe Turner favorite "Flip, Flop and Fly"...tough to get the horns and saxophones coordinated due to practice time constraints, also the sunglasses and dark suits can be a sourcing issue.

26 minutes ago, Tampa Turtle said:

@Jameson76 "There have been other cheating scandals (Learning for Life is the latest" ??? Did I miss something?

This is the Scouting program for urban youth, at schools, etc.  

Learning for Life (LFL) is a United States school and work-site based youth program that is a subsidiary of the Boy Scouts of America. It utilizes programs designed for schools and community-based organizations that are designed to prepare youth for the complexities of contemporary society and to enhance their self-confidence, motivation, and self-esteem, and for careers.

Learning for Life is not considered a traditional Scouting program; it does not use the Scout Promise, Scout Law, uniforms or insignia of traditional Scouting. All Learning for Life programs are open to youth and adults without restriction based on gender, residence, religion, sexual orientation, or other considerations, other than minimum age requirements. Some Explorer posts may require background checks and satisfactory school transcripts as conditions of membership.

There were many issues with "Scouts" being registered.  As you can see the membership dropped 36% from 2010 - 2014 as these issues were revealed.