Jameson76

So...to be clear, I am not supposed to be running the Texas hold-em big blind games at camp?  Admittedly the pots get way smaller after the first night and "the house" seems to have been the big winner.  Will have to adjust the campsite events

1 minute ago, Tampa Turtle said:

BTW is it just me or is their a LOT more of a push for getting folks to Philmont this summer?

Have you seen the amount of open treks listed?

• 62 crew openings in June
• 93 crew openings in July
• 145 crew openings in August

29 minutes ago, Tampa Turtle said:

Seems like such a STUPID solution that only exists to provide cover for Mr. Surbaugh after his previous statements about "no co-ed troops". Trying to have it both ways. I'd rather have intellectual consistency since we have to go out and explain this Potemkin Village to the parents.

Not that I have an opinion. 

I may just name this "Surbaugh's Skort Solution" as something that is a hacked hybrid that is neither co-ed or single sex. Really. Your not going to listen to us Scouters anyway so just make a freaking decision--he needs to stop thinking this is a new chapter in "Profiles in Courage".

We all knew it was going to be headed this way.  

The only brick left in the wall (and it is a very very short wall) is CO's can choose to not have a BS4G troop at their location...for now...until the next FAQ release...or they just feel like it...or there is threat of a suit...of the media sort of wants it

10 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

Few interesting points...FAQ indicates

boy and girl Troops cannot have the same SM.

boy and girl Troops can meet at same time and place

 

Actually - Chartered organizations should have separate Scoutmasters for their boy troop and girl troop.  That means not encouraged but not prohibited.  If not allowed the wording would (I assume) be cannot 

27 minutes ago, John-in-KC said:

Except for the fact I know it will happen, I would bet a beer that there will be at least one pair of troops in the nation who will have the same scoutmaster and ASMs, and the PLCs meet as one. 

What's the over under on percentage of "Linked" (wink wink) troops with this configuration?

OK - So what are linked troops?  That is a new phrase to the party

1 hour ago, krikkitbot said:

Related question. Do you place a limit on the number of adults going on each camping trip? 

Typically no.  We have 35 - 40 scouts each outing, so for driving we need 10 or so just to get there.  If a parent is new we cover where the leaders camp, let the scouts do there thing, etc.  If you go on more than one outing we will register you.  We do require all that attend outings to be current with YPT.  We have had some aged out scouts that come on occasion.  They always think the YPT is sort of creepy.

We never have moms attend, must be a vibe we give off.  There have been some doting dads and the SM or outdoor person will give  friendly chat about let them be.  Sometimes we have to send a scout back to patrol areas who is coming looking for dad too much.  On the flip side we get some whose kids do not ride to or from the outing with the dad, and actually never seem to speak with the dad.  

It all seems to work out.  The new dads, especially those that have recently crossed over really like the troop camping plan.

We use the JASM, typically this is a former SPL, so they may not be there much.  We have had success at Summer camp (we take 50 - 60) with some older scouts attending as they need to get some requirements complete.  Works really well.  Leader in camp works with the JASM who then backstops the SPL / ASPL's.  Gives them responsibility and a good taste of leadership.

Had a staff member who had an issue with a scout one time, came to see us, we referred him to the JASM and they worked it out.

The cash part is always a fun thing.  We rarely deal with cash, mainly checks and paypal.

That being said I have had someone pay for summer camp at the last week in cash before, advise SM and Treasurer, then had the cash at the house.  After camp we settled up with a documentation of the cash.  Received XXX for camp.  Paid YYY out of pocket expenses at summer camp.  Here is the remainder (or still need ZZZ)

We are all volunteers.  Document things clearly, but don't be a czar and bang your shoe on the desk, need to make it easy to do the business of the unit. 

Funny part is at Philmont to lessen impact we all camped right together.  That was different.  Each adult had their own tent, but it was different being 3 yards from scouts as opposed to out of site.  They were annoyed by the snoring but that was just a bonus

4 minutes ago, gblotter said:

Good riddance to skill awards and red berets.

Don't be hating on the red beret

On 2/28/2018 at 4:17 PM, Eagle1993 said:

If girls represent 5% and our membership continues to decline we will become REI Scouts of America (or whatever brand(s) help bail us out).

With the STEM (STEAM???) emphasis it may be some tech company. 

• Apple Scouts
• Amazon Scouts
• Oracle Scouts

We have about one of these per year.  They were active 5th - 8th, attained Life rank, were active for those 6 months, then High School comes along.  They come back in during 11th grade and try to wrap it up.  

It may be the minimum, but that is all that is required.  I really like the Eagles and older scouts that are active for the full time available, but then I like many things I cannot always have

13 minutes ago, Tampa Turtle said:

We had a campout with 18 scouts and 16 adults and 6 siblings--give me a break) and have bigger fish to fry,

That would be time to punch out

1 minute ago, Hawkwin said:

I don't personally see it as weird, but unless we replace it with "something" then just "Scouts" is potentially more awkward when we consider the fact that there would be "Girl Scouts" and girls "Scouts."

Perhaps replace "boy" with some synonym for "outdoors." Maybe "Wilderness" or "Woodland." I am personally fine with leaving it just the way it is (many professions have dropped their gender specific suffixes for the male or non-gender specific titles - like actor/actress, steward/stewardess became flight attendant), and clearly those girls that have expressed interest in joining have not been deterred by the organization being called "Boy."

No doubt there is a committee in Irving working on this.  Here are some suggestions

• Them Scouts
• They Scouts
• Sith Scouts
• Genderless Scouts
• Neutral Scouts
• Non-specific Scouts
• Unisexual Scouts
• Youth Scouts
•  

On 10/28/2017 at 6:06 PM, desertrat77 said:

Ajax:  we used tetrox, which was applied in the same manner.  We were warned about the gastrointestinal danger of even a little bit getting into the food. 

Also known as the tetrox trots

When I was enduring the cubs program and trying to not let my head explode, we were going to cook spaghetti for the den on an outing (family camping!!!) and heat the large pot on the fire.  Guy whose pot is was got concerned about soot.  Said let's soap the pot...crickets from the group.  I told them to hang on, put on liquid dish soap, heated it, did a second coat, then we boiled and ate.  It was like I was a wizard as the black soot on the bottom just washed away.

3 minutes ago, krikkitbot said:

Problems can also come from 21st century parents. Parents that have been doing everything for the kids and you suddenly have an old fart like me telling them, little Johnny can decide where to go or what to eat on a camping trip. It does not sit well with the more controlling parents. 

NOOO... Little Johnny needs our help to survive!!!

Try not to judge Boy Led (Y / N) just by outing planning.  If the SM is deciding what to do when, then that could be a challenge.  If the TLC is deciding what to do when, but the actual logistics are being done by an adult, sort of grey area.   

In our unit leaders sit with the TLC at annual planning, we provide the school calendar for reference, then a listing of past outings and events, how many attended, also they write down some new ones.  There are some general parameters based on distance, G2SS (paintball comes up every year), and cost (yes you could maybe do that, let's hear about pay options).  Then we wander off.  Some are straight forward to plan and some we need more detail on.  They wanted a lock-in several years ago.  We discussed what would they do, times, what would be needed.  CO was good with it and over the years this is a huge event.  Sometimes we want to go to a State Park to do a specific activity.  We have had to switch months due to conflicts at the park.  Typically we sit back down with the TLC and advise.  A leader will make the reservations, TLC will plan the activities

Some units may have the TLC make the reservations and figure out how to maybe put in a deposit.  

Now meals, packing, loading, campfires, duty rosters, clean-up, etc.  TLC works all that out.  Same with instructional times, flag ceremonies and other meeting items

Some take COPE, some have taken some MB classes they have not had an opportunity to take prior (Welding / Metalwork / One took Orienteering), some have participated in the whitewater challenge (5 days / 5 rivers) some have taken the offsite options; backpacking / whitewater / other things.  One Eagle took BSA Lifeguard one year.  They assist as JASM's for the week and guide the new scouts.

Our guideline is scheduled things during the morning before lunch.  Afternoons enjoy the camp, some sleep all afternoon.

On 2/24/2018 at 8:54 AM, Eagle1993 said:

I think THIS is what is critical.  All of us have some idea, but in aggregate it would be interesting for DEs to share some details to unit leaders on common themes.  While I wasn’t able to get a report on why from my DE, he did share a print out of every unit in my district and their past 8 year membership numbers.  I was able to use that as a new CC to reach out to the successful units (in terms of attrition) and get some recruiting and org structure ideas.  

Attending district meetings I’m shocked that Boy Scout Troops do not have high adventure activities every year.  Some never do HA.  Why?  As a kid, I remember the HA outings were a big reason why I stuck with my Troop for several years after Eagle (I could care less about palms).  

In the end, units vary greatly and over the last 20 years there are successful units and those that fold.  BSA should be more open with existing units on these reasons vs protecting the data and making their own conclusions.

Never have I seen or been aware of ANY council or district professional or volunteer actually going out and meeting with successful units.  Success being either sustained growth or maintained membership.  Also they can check within the council on regular advancements for a unit.

Do some benchmarking.  What is this or that unit doing.  Not all situations are repeatable, but likely with enough data points there will be some commonalities that can be used

Some of these may be:

• Strong outdoor program
• Regular high adventure
• Outings where scouts have fun 
• Youth led unit
• Regular meetings where scouts lead
• Regular TLC meetings where scouts plan
• Youth decide where to have outings and events
• Engaged leaders that mentor
• Adult leaders that realize scouting is part of the scouts activities and may not be their only activity

In the annual report (at least 2016) they also noted the 492,159 "Scouts" in Career based programs and Learning for Life.  

Also interesting drops since 1998

• Cubs - 43%
• Boy Scouts - 19% (honestly less than I may have been led to believe)
• Venturing - 54%
• Total - 36%

Pretty good drop for Cubs.  Thought that was the growth area.

8 minutes ago, gblotter said:

 BSA tool usage matrix last year (and quite by chance). Flog me too, I guess.

You can tell that the firm of Dewey, Cheathum, and Howe has been hard at work in Irving, TX

What a joke, you have to be at least 14 to use these??? 

• Pickaxe
• Mattock
• Posthole digger
• Wheel cart (1-, 2-, or 4-wheeled)
• Paint roller with extension pole
• Screwdriver (electric)
• Handheld sander (small)
• Cutting tools (e.g., Dremel, small)
• Paint sprayer (small, less than 50 psi)

16 or older to use these???

• Residential lawn mower (self-propelled, riding)
• Commercial lawn mower (push, self-propelled, riding)
• Line trimmer (electric, gas-powered)
• Edger (electric, gas-powered)
• Leaf/grass blower (electric, gas-powered)
• Hedge trimmer (electric, gas-powered)
• Belt sander (electric, cordless)
• Pressure washer (50 to 100 PSI)

But Everyone can use these tools

• Leaf/grass rake
• Hoe
• Shovel
• Hand clipper (small)
• Screwdrivers
• Nail hammer
• Handsaw
• Trowel
• Hose spray washer
• Wood sanding block (handheld)
• Wood chisel (Scouts with Totin’ Chip)
• Pocketknife (Scouts with Whittling Chip or Totin’ Chip)

And over 18 for these

• Circular, reciprocating, jig, or radial saw
• Band and scroll saws
• Router/planer
• Chain saws
• Log splitters
• Wood chippers

Creeps me out that my phone knows where I'm at, don't want my jacket keeping tabs on my comings and goings.  Also would you need to plug your jacket in to keep it ready to roll?  Great...now I have to install outlets in the closet.  It NEVER ends!!

15 minutes ago, carebear3895 said:

Venture Crews are simply unsustainable. The trend I saw in my old council was that a lot of crews started up to go on a high adventure, but then crashed and burned after

I led what I guess would have been a precursor to Venturing which was a High Adventure Explorer post in the 80's.  Had some guys from the troop, then a few sisters, and BAM we had a post.  Ran it for 3 years or so.  Hard part was over 21 females, burned through a few girlfriends dragging them on outings.  Then the ones that started with it become HS Seniors or graduated and drifted away, then we tried recruiting some, and it sort of faded away.  Tough to sustain without a good feeder program (Cubs to Scouts).

15 minutes ago, carebear3895 said:

Scoutreach is good in theory, but oh my lord is it ever abused by Professionals for membership numbers. It's embarrassing 

That is soooo true.  When there are serious audits on membership numbers for LFL and Scoutreach it is comical (in a really sad way).  Yes it can and should be a good program and the councils get a feel good see what we are doing moment.  The best is when professionals who are supposed to be working with the units have no idea where the unit may actually meet.  Members who have no idea they are members.

1 hour ago, Eagle1993 said:

Is that what he meant or did he mean Scoutreach?  I know our council spends a lot of time on both L4L and Scoutreach vs Venturing.

Assumed since it was noted schools, that mean Learning for Life, but I stand to be corrected

The "Learning for Life" and "Scoutreach" seem to serve the same populations but (from what I can read) in different ways

LFL - Learning for Life (LFL) is a United States school and work-site based youth program that is an affiliate of the Boy Scouts of America. It utilizes programs designed for schools and community-based organizations that are designed to prepare youth for the complexities of contemporary society and to enhance their self-confidence, motivation, and self-esteem, and for careers.

Learning for Life is not considered a traditional Scouting program; it does not use the Scout Promise, Scout Law, uniforms or insignia of traditional Scouting. All Learning for Life programs are open to youth and adults without restriction based on gender, residence, religion, sexual orientation, or other considerations, other than minimum age requirements. Some Explorer posts may require background checks and satisfactory school transcripts as conditions of membership.

Scoutreach is a division within the Council with an emphasis to recruit passionate adult leaders and to develop strong relationships with organization in urban, suburban, and rural areas, removing barriers to ensure that all youth have the opportunity to join Scouting. The Council is dedicated to ensure that every child has an opportunity to join Scouting, no matter their circumstance. Scoutreach assistance can provide camperships, uniforms, handbooks, transportation, and leadership of a Scout unit.