Jameson76

1 hour ago, SR540Beaver said:

So you're going to use the, "if a patrol wants to go play laser tag as a bunch of friends in street clothes, then it isn't Scouts going against the G2SS" defense even when the patrol planned it at a meeting?  OA ceremonialists need to do the honorable thing and follow the national rules rather than go rogue.

Not to derail a thread, but isn't that sort of the reasoning (groups gone rogue) given as one of the reasons for the change to allow girls into the Cubs and Boy Scouts?  Also the move toward family scouting emphasis "so many were doing it anyway, may as well make it official".   That seems to be the way to effect change now, just go do it and likely rather than make waves it will be codified

56 minutes ago, Oldscout448 said:

Not to derail the thread, but this kinda sounds like why we no longer have any district camporees anymore.  Council started taking 10-15% off the top for  "expenses" 

Actually your comment is sadly likely well on point.  The local council needs it's cut (Be that BSA or GSUSA)

2 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

GSUSA has now dismissed the Troop Leader for raising funds.  Not sure why, but seems to be a policy violation.

https://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/story/news/2018/11/19/green-bay-girl-scout-leader-dismissed-after-organizing-event-crash-victims/2060509002/

 

Interesting

We will tell you when and where you can collect funds citizen...and we will take our percentage off the top, and why aren't you selling cookies with all this spare time??

2 hours ago, MikeS72 said:

@LeCastor  I spent a week at one of the Atlanta Area Council camps, Woodruff Scout Reservation 

1 hour ago, LeCastor said:

I ❤️ Woodruff Scout Reservation so much! 

To be clear...it does snow at Woodruff, you just have to be there on the right weekend

5 hours ago, LeCastor said:

frozen tundra?

For us Frozen Tundra is merely a Toyota not parked in the garage with some frost on it, once the sun hits, it's all good

We are in the south...so we go further south.  This year to the beach and camping along the intercoastal in January.  Also some backpacking in February and wide games in March.  Of course it rarely gets below freezing for the whole day around here, maybe into the 20's at night but warmer during the day

8 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

Hah - now I'm going to see the word Scouts and think Bourbon.

Many of us crossed that bridge a while back.....helps while unpacking gear back at the house on Sundays

23 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

I'm trying to think of a similar analogy

Possibly Bourbon may be a good example

If it is produced in the USA, made from a grain mixture that is at least 51% corn, aged in new, charred oak containers, distilled to no more than 160 (U.S.) proof (80% alcohol by volume),  entered into the barrel for aging at no more than 125 proof (62.5% alcohol by volume), bottled (like other whiskeys) at 80 proof or more (40% alcohol by volume) it can be called Bourbon.

Do the same thing in Canada, guess it is called whiskey.  It's all in the name though the product is or could be identical

Also as this suit may drag on, the use of bourbon (or whiskey) may help many of us endure.  

Admin question: what if a Scout who is 16 to 17, realized that they could not get Eagle due to the calendar and they did not recharter, but then rejoined Scouts after 2/2019.  Would they be able to get the extension?  Also any work they had done would be recognized? 

Very small population for this possibility and the machinations to get done could be problematic.  Wonder how districts and councils may react to the possible gaming of the system?
 

15 minutes ago, Clstlg said:

They had quite a few scouts there for a EBoR and they were short on people, so they recruited family members who were there (if they had any experience with Boy Scouts) to serve as BoR members for other scouts (2 Council members and 1 volunteer).  My husband, who is a former scoutmaster, served on the board for another scout.  The BoR member who demurred was not a volunteer.

All members of the EBOR should have been volunteers, or functioning in a volunteer capacity.  Typically at least one is not with the unit

You can look up the particulars by looking at the Guide to Advancement (PDF - Google BSA Guide to Advancement)

Section 8.0.3.0 references Particulars for Eagle Scout Rank

Section 8.0.4.0 Appealing the Decision

Quick question - For the EBOR typically this is made up of members from the troop and members from the District / Council.  Curious who felt their own definition of "leadership" has not been met?

The EBOR while not a review can look at and could bring up any factual errors that may have been missed prior (number of merit badges, dates in rank, age at time of completion).  That is unlikely as the dates are reviewed by the council against the BSA system records prior to the EBOR

Additionally the Eagle candidate had the project reviewed by the unit (SM and CC both signed off on proposal) and then the project was approved by the District or Council (depending on size).   Any concerns with the leadership portion would have been brought up at that point.

I would engage with the District Commissioner and the Council Commissioner for the appeal process and politely request that the Scouter (Scouters??) who questioned the leadership portion not be on the next EBOR.

26 minutes ago, CodyMiller351 said:

I need some help from y'all.  As of right now, my Troop has 3 active scouts.  We have had a rough past 2 years with our charter organization getting rid of us (due to problems with the pack).  We ended up creating our own non-profit organization so we wouldn't have to find a different charter org.  We have also had a change at Scoutmaster recently.  I had assumed the responsibilities of Scoutmaster but since I am not 21 another one of our older leaders (also my Grandpaw) is the "official" Scoutmaster on paper.  Along with the Scoutmaster leaving, we had 5 boys and 2 other adults go with him (they created a new troop due to disagreements with one of our leaders).  Anyways, my main point is we need more boys.  Our council set up recruiting events at schools and a local church but they were canceled due to bad weather (hurricanes).  Since then, they have yet to set up any replacement events so we have had to do this on our own (which is fine but help would be nice).  We have placed "Join Boy Scouts" signs at many places around town with my contact information.  We also gave 2 of our scouts some info cards to hard out at school but I am not sure they have done that yet.  Another reason we are having troubles is because the Cubmaster for our Cub Scout Pack does not have a great relationship with us.  He is friends with one of the leaders who left and started a new troop.  We have talked with the Cubmaster and he says he will stick with us and send his boys our way (we will see if that actually happens).  Anyways, I am curious to see what y'all think.  What have y'all done for recruiting?  I am willing to try anything at this point.  I have been fighting my butt off to keep this Troop up and running but to little success.  I don't want to see this Troop fold but I am afriad with another year like we have been having we might have to give up.  Any suggestions are appreciated!  

First - lots of adult drama seems to be in play, but let's power through that

Scouts are the best recruits for Scouts.  The best way to get boys who are not involved is PROGRAM.  Not advancement, not meetings, not citizenship, etc etc, it's PROGRAM.  Get your 3 active scouts to clearly set a calendar of OUTDOOR PROGRAMMING.  That is the selling point for other boys to engage, what will THEY be doing, what is in it for them.  Go Do Stuff.  Get the dates set and get a plan to go do things.  Not sure where you are but that is what will get the boys to show up.

Canoeing, kayaking. hiking, wide games, biking, etc etc.  PROGRAM brings in Scouts.  The other key items like advancement, citizenship, and leadership can be built once you get them engaged

BRO SCOUTS OF AMERICA..."it's all good"

6 hours ago, mashmaster said:

I love the fact that a merit badge counselor for cooking MB insists that requirements must be done with his troop.  He has already completed the patrol section of the merit badge.  So emails the merit badge counselor and tells her that the requirements in the merit badge book don't say that it has to be done with his troop.  The counselor replies back that he is correct and he can complete them on our family campout.

Both sides were respectful, btw, it was awesome to see a civil conversation via email between them where he pointed out a fact and it got accepted.    I think both of them learned a lesson and are better for it.

A common misconception and good resolution. 

Had a scout talk with me recently that he wanted to complete cooking but he had missed the troop backpacking outing.  Reminded him that the requirements did not specify the cooking had to be done with the troop, could be a patrol outing or he and some friends could be backpacking.  Cooking is a life skill, going to be needing it 2 to 3 times a day for a long long time, in and out of Scouts.

1 hour ago, Tired_Eagle_Feathers said:

I think the acrobatics the organization is doing to try and not say the word "girl" is preposterous.  You can be a girl Scout and not a Girl Scout.

 

Great.  Now the capitalization police will be all over us.....

3 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

Ya, I get that. Don't really care though. They can sue me.

 

I will await my Cease and Desist.

Maybe there will be a patch...

The International Scouts at the summer camps we attend have always been a positive.  Our guys have met and talked with Scouts / had merit badge sessions with Scouts from Morroco, Egypt, Poland, England, China, Syria, Malaysia and many others I have cannot recall.

This is the official BSA pocket knife

The hooked blade on the far right is fact the can opener

Not a bad video on how this works on a can.  Can take a while

13 minutes ago, FireStone said:

I browsed through the Examples section, to see the examples of flyers/materials/marketing that use confusing language. Although I still don't agree with the lawsuit, broadly speaking, the examples are jarring. What were these Packs/Troops/Councils thinking?

"Come talk to me about the Girl Scouts BSA Troops forming in Kirkland!"

"We will be forming a Girl Scout Troop in February."

"Girl Scout Volunteer Opportunity"

Using the Girl Scouts slogan in marketing materials.

Using quotes from Juliette Gordon Low in OFFICIAL BSA marketing materials.

😧

Come on, people. Be a little smarter about how you word things.

This will be interesting.  I foresee some additional training as part of some consent decree in our future

Maybe a 30 page Powerpoint

14 minutes ago, scoutboy said:

And, does anyone have any tips to make this a more efficient process.

Why the quest for efficiency?  it can be done in under 2 years based on time in rank requirements.  But as has and no doubt will be noted, Eagle Scout is not the goal.  The rank is merely a stop along the scouting journey.  If attaining the Eagle rank is all that matters, the Scout is missing the point

Enjoy the trip and experiences along the way

8 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

I don't know the answer to your question, but troop calendars started changing after National introduced the New Scout Patrols (NSP) around 1990.

Before NSPs, most packs moved the Webelos over by age, which resulted in troop receiving one or two crossovers every month over the whole year. Not the whole den once a year. A couple of New Scouts every month fostered the patrols to teach scout skills all year long.

The NSPs intuitively swayed districts to encourage packs to cross their Webelos over in the winter, which forced troops to plan seasonal calendars. Before the NSPs, most troops planned their calendars around more adventure activities like hiking, fishing, backpacking and so on with scouts skills development done more at the patrol level and worked into the adventure activities. After NSPs were introduced, PLCs started planning toward seasonal programs of first class skills like, first-aid, pioneering, or cooking to fit in with getting new scouts up to speed for camping, as well as advancing.

These NSP calendar schedules aren't bad in of themselves, but the unintentional consequences were PLC's taking over the patrols responsibilities of teaching skills to their new patrol mates and troop activities that have less adventure and more advancement. Simply, NSPs quietly and slowly drove troops away from patrol method and adventure. 

Knowing this, a troop can try and resist seasonal programming, but we found it almost impossible. Even though we are a mixed age patrol program, districts still push the winter crossovers, so troops are stuck with receiving most of their new scouts over in a 3 month range. That forces the troops into programs of getting new scouts up to speed for summer camp. That doesn't leave a lot of room for general adventure activities that aren't skills developing activities, at least in the Spring. We do OK because we understand the situation, but troop leaders that don't see it will fall into a seasonal calendar that is basically a first class advancement program. Which is a big killer of the older scouts part of the program. And to add insult to injury, many if not most, troops plan their fall calendar around recruiting, so they have very little calendar for just plain old adventure.

The NSP inadvertently push troop scouting to be less patrol method and more adult run. Troops today are a lot less mature and strive more for advancement. And it's difficult to not fall into those traps because they are the paths of least resistance.

Barry

Agree that too much focus on NS can be a killer.

We run year round (Seabase / Philmont / 2 summer camps summer of 2019) and while we have activities, not formal meetings in the summer, basically June and July.  But during those months we have pre-camp meetings and summer camps.  Our planning runs August to July.  The PLC meets in late April for planning the next 12 months of outings and general calendar.  The PLC meets monthly for planning the next 4 weeks.

For the new scouts we run a parallel program in the spring.  New Scouts with their NS patrols, they do things, and have a specific NS outing.  For that outing we have upped to adventure quotient to get older Scouts to come along.  We also have a regular troop outing that month.  None of our outings are advancement focused, that is a real attendance/interest killer

49 minutes ago, oldisnewagain1 said:

how about "the Scouting organization formally known as Boy Scouts"

or

Scouting The Fun Units - better known by it's initials when in communications with the Girl Scouts USA

Scouts Unfazed Camping Kayaking Intending To Go Strongly Until Simply Amazed

21 minutes ago, wdfa89 said:

I think it is about scholarships. 

The hope for the scholarship has never made financial sense

Scenario 1 - You pay for kid to be in travel ball for 7 years and pay maybe $60K in fees and expenses (that is low I think) hoping for a scholarship, low chance of success

Scenario 2 - You put that same $60k in a qualified 529 plan and for the same period, and when kid graduates may have $70k which can pay for a good chunk of college with the sure thing

Just now, 69RoadRunner said:

Maybe we'll be the XX & XY Scouts of America.

What if you're XX but identify as XY??

Yeah...like we didn't see this coming.  And I was hoping all of the Scout organizations would gather at some to be determined site and sing kumbayah while all mocking those who still wear red epaulettes on their uniforms (or sashes??) and making jokes about the various professionals in each organization