Jameson76

1 hour ago, Double Eagle said:

 Having completed training, the BSA says there is no "class A" uniform, only the official uniform.  The one commonly called "Class B" is just the field shirt option, pants don't change.  With that said, another thread mentioned what do scouters really wear on outings.  Some strictly said they are official uniform (class A) all the time.  I have seen some of these scouters on outings that don't leave a chair, can't hike a trail, or participate with the youth, so it is easy to preserve their official uniform.  For those adults participating with activities, I think there is nothing wrong with a field shirt and what the youth are wearing.  Ever rock climb in the official uniform...impractical.  Tearing up a field shirt should be a good thing if done during activities with youth.

We wear the "official uniform" in transit to outings.  Actually we call it Class A and are just hoping the uniform and or phrase police stop by and try to ticket us. 

But anyway, when we arrive, the Scouts take off the class A (typically tossing them into the dirt) for setup, activities, etc.  Most scouts have the Class B troop t-shirts / summer camp / fleece / hoodies to wear.  When we depart everyone is back in the Class A shirts.  Also good times with many calls that their Class A shirts have been stolen until someone points to the tan lump under some leaves.

18 hours ago, WisconsinMomma said:

Wait, there are 365 days in a year???

Troop total: 13 outings per year, 40.3 average scouts, 2.3 nights average per outing = (roughly) 1,205 nights of camping last year

1 hour ago, fred johnson said:

I haven't read the whole thread yet, but I've seen lots of frustration with Wood Badgers lately.  The key complains are two.  First, brow beating people who have not taken it to take it.  Second, over-emphasizing it as way more important than it really is.   

I was at summer camp and a couple of WB (dare I say) zealots were hitting it pretty heavy that WB was the end all be all.  Told them not doubting it may have some benefit, but in the last 5 years I had been pretty busy as we had doubled the number of scouts attending monthly outings, the troop was exceeding 1,000 nights camping each year, we did 2 summer camps, 1 High adventure trek, did 11 other outdoor activities, had 10 -12 Eagle scouts each year, service projects, etc and really was not sure what WB might do to take us the the next level?  I explained my focus was on the unit and delivering program to the Scouts.

They did not have a great comeback

2 minutes ago, Tired_Eagle_Feathers said:

So I dug my old backpack out of the attic and discovered that the nylon straps are disintegrating.  The frame is aluminum and the bag part is fine.  I can probably make new straps from leather.

I looked online at REI and all the backpacks today look like a giant duffle bag with straps.  Not at all what I grew up with.  How do you attach a bed roll, sleeping bag, and tent to these new kinds of backpacks?

 

They go inside. Some have lower pockets for the sleeping bags.  The tops are expandable for lighter sleeping pads.  Yes the nylon will fall apart after many years.  Also the padding breaks down if stored in heat and comes out like little pellets.

The newer packs with the internal frames take some getting used to if you are only familiar with the frame ones.  Though many have handy nalegene pockets that can be accessed right behind you while hiking.  One does have to adjust the straps and the way you load more thoughtfully as they can tend to have the center of weight lower and that can tend to pull you back as opposed to the frame pack which tends to ride higher and can be flatter

Big Iron by Marty Robbins is a crowd pleaser...if you have a stand up bass it really sells it

To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day
Hardly spoke to folks around him, didn't have too much to say,
No one dared to ask his business, no one dared to make a slip
The stranger there among them had a big iron on his hip,
Big iron on his hip

1 hour ago, cocomax said:

very proud to have "earned their Eagle" in wood badge.  

I have heard that reference and don't get me started on that statement.  The two could not be more different in goals, aims, and achievements.  I did see one (was a Cub Leader at the time) wonder why there was no knot for WB...I swear that guy slept in his beads...

28 minutes ago, Tired_Eagle_Feathers said:

I've been reading up on this "Family Scouting" stuff.
https://i9peu1ikn3a16vg4e45rqi17-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Family-Scouting_Infographic_v10-1.pdf

I think it's pretty clear that the primary driving force here is decades of declining membership.  But the infographic states that the rationale is that families are so busy that they would prefer a "one stop solution" for Scouting.  As the father of a son and daughter, and my wife is the troop leader for her Girl Scout troop and my son is in Cub Scouts, I agree, it would be great to have just one activity to juggle in the schedule!

But it does not look to me like BSA Family Scouting achieves that at all.  If your children are still in separate Dens or Troops, then what schedule consolidation has happened?  Where is the convenience over just staying in BSA/GSA?

 

Note the wording on the infographic:

• are interested in a program like Cub Scouts for their daughters
• are interested in a program like Boy Scouts® for their daughters

They do not say they are specifically interested in CUBS or SCOUTS...just a program LIKE Scouts.  So who knows what sort of program that may be.

6 minutes ago, shortridge said:

• Keep online conversations with everyone in public places, not in email.”

First - trying to get a youth to e-mail is tough.  Should be a knot for accomplishing that task.

We just copy another leader / parent and drive on.  That is public and two deep leadership.  Gotta deliver the program right? 

The wizards at National who generate the rules and YPT are governed by lawyers.  There are no people involved in this that have worked with an actual unit in at least the last 10 years.  If the professional group could raise money and earn salaries without having the bothersome youth around, they would be all in for that

A chart for tracking exercise seems reasonable.  The other parts should be done as part of activities and the Cubs can accomplish FUN things and not know they are doing it.

When working with Scouts on Camping Merit Badge we get to requirement 9b and some Scouts are not sure about this one

1. Hike up a mountain where, at some point, you are at least 1,000 feet higher in elevation from where you started.

2. Backpack, snowshoe, or cross-country ski for at least 4 miles.

3. Take a bike trip of at least 15 miles or at least four hours.

4. Take a nonmotorized trip on the water of at least four hours or 5 miles.

5. Plan and carry out an overnight snow camping experience.

6. Rappel down a rappel route of 30 feet or more.

 

Then as I talk with them and we talk about the various outings the troop does they realize they completed these when we did backpacking, our bike outing, or the kayaking trip and did not even realize it.  

5 minutes ago, DuctTape said:

The term Family Scouting was an extremely poor choice by BSA if it truly means what they stated; a one stop shop for families. Obviously family's and scouters are implementing it as "the entire family is together". That is disappointing. BSA has really lost its edge on how to market effectively.

Strange how so many come from the business world and are terrible at marketing. Or maybe these ceos and business execs don't really understand the product. It wouldn't be the first time, as it happens in business world a heckuva lot. Yet "we" think we need to pay them 300x + the average employee wage. 

Agree on Family Scouting

7 minutes ago, RichardB said:

I'm sorry, did you read the reference / source material?   OP asked about a private online forum set up for PLC use and connected to the Troop.    Seems pretty clear (it's not a hypothetical) that this was set up and being done in the name of Scouting.  

From the Scouting wire that outlines not only why but the risks:  

"..To help ensure that all communication on social media channels remains positive and safe, these channels must be public, and all communication on or through them must be public. This enables administrators to monitor all communication and help ensure there is no inappropriate communication between adult leaders and Scouts or between Scouts themselves. Therefore, no private channels (e.g., private Facebook groups or invite-only YouTube channels) are acceptable in helping to administer the Scouting program. Private channels and private communication put both the youth and you at risk. If you feel the information you seek to share via social media channels should not be shared in public, you should not share that information via social media..."

From the Barriers to Abuse:   

"...All aspects of the Scouting program are open to observation by parents and leaders.

The BSA does not recognize any secret organizations as part of its program..."

 

Note that most of the YPT intent is directed at and intended for Adults to setup barriers for abuse to youth.  Some is there youth to youth, but it is YOUTH Protection

The original post was about chat groups used by youth to youth.  As has been noted, nothing really different than boys talking to boys, just in a new format.  We as leaders cannot be expected to monitor and observe all conversations youth to youth whether they be in person, in notes, on text, PM's, phone calls, conference calls, etc.  Yes it is about the PLC and if the conversation involved bullying or other topics that needed to be addressed, then same as if the conversation was in person, in notes, on text, PM's, phone calls, conference calls, the leaders could address the issue.

If the unit sets up a communication medium (say instagram) then yes that should be moderated, all comments public, etc

So to be clear...one can be 17 and 11.5 months and sign up for the BSA, (SA??), on 2/1/2019.  Then request an extension to work towards EAGLE and you would have until one was 19 and 11.5 months to get the Eagle (24 months from an extension request).  No doubt this will make for some interesting camping and sign off experiences.

Not sure how I feel about this

Reminder that all troops may not be able to and equipped to handle the wide range of Scouts that come their way.  The leaders are volunteers, and they bring only their experiences with them to their roles.  

You have identified some issues your son.  It appears he has some accommodations that have been worked out with the schools - One  such plan was to "check for understanding" similar to his what is implemented at his school

There may be some troops that have more experience with these challenges

14 minutes ago, qwazse said:

Based on my experience as a crew advisor, such tickers would prove to be  grossly inflated by the unscrupulous, certainly rife with cub bots of both sexes!

So true So true.  Already the DE's are positing about girls in the "pipeline" and not the actual number of real girls showing up to sign up.  One pack in our area had 1 girl come, they are looking at options, DE reported 10+ "interested"

13 minutes ago, carebear3895 said:

DE's do some stupid things when the pressure is on.

Remember (and you know doubt live this) that unit volunteers and professionals approach this with different agendas

• Unit volunteers will look to what quality program can I provide to the youth and what is the long term window (hopefully years) for participation with the youth coming to my unit
• Professionals see youth as a commodity and are mainly interested in the numbers NOW, this month, this year.  Goals must be attained.  If they can get the money (make the sale / ABC Always Be Closing) and add widgets to the spreadsheet, their job is done

Cajoling or bullying a unit is doing what it takes to be successful.  No issue with professionals, they are doing what they are being incentivized to do.

Feedback in our unit is the new YPT seems a bit overkill and heavy handed.

Seems less the like old one..how to be compliant and adhere to YPT, and has now morphed into selling me that child exploitation is bad, we are likely all on board with that idea.  Also children are in danger, predators abound, be fearful, be watchful, be vigilant

Wonder how this will play with new leaders, hope it doesn't scare any off

10 hours ago, Treflienne said:

I have read a lot of really thoughtful, helpful, insightful posts that you have written on various topics.   You obviously have a lot of valuable experience.   

And since "A Scout is cheerful" and "A Scout is helpful",  I'm hoping you can put aside the gloom long enough to consider a question: What do you think is most important for the new-to-BSA volunteers to learn?   How would you recommend they learn it?  I'm asking because I will in all likelihood be one of those new-to-BSA volunteers with a new Scouts BSA troop for girls (but only if we get enough girls and enough volunteers to get a troop going).

Actually,  I'd appreciate input from all y'all, not just Barry.

Have fun.  If the scouts are not having fun, they will vote with their feet.  Keep the helicopter parents in the back and out of the way.

Let the youth (with guidance and mentoring) select and be involved with activities that are engaging to them.  If the program becomes more school and classwork to get to the vaunted Eagle rank, you will lose many of them

Have fun, go outdoors and DO STUFF.  Not for advancement sake, not to get this merit badge or that merit badge, because it is fun, challenging, and engaging.  The advancement can be a byproduct of what is done, not the main purpose.  Go hiking, go climbing, go canoeing, go boating, go through a gorge, go biking, play a wide game, do a lock-in with overnight video games and gym games.

Did I mention facilitate HAVING FUN?

I did the flag thing when I was in elementary school.  Principal chose two of us that were in scouts.  We put it up in the morning and took it down in the afternoon.  Fun part was running out of class when a storm came up...good times in the 6th grade, dodging lightning and what not.

Well done young cubs

Who has time for all the record keeping and math?  

Not a huge fan of massive troop "rules".  Never had one, do not plan to have one.  Once you have written "guidelines" one will need to follow them and then you get boxed into a corner.  Sort of like the academic zero tolerance policies.  Huge difference when a kid goes camping with dad and accidentally leaves an axe in the car as compared to kid who brings a knife to school to settle a score.  One must look at intent and hopefully be able to judge and work with kids as individuals.

We have a large troop and literally have only one written policy, and that concerns cell phones and it was written this year.  Other than that, we try to follow the basic tenants of BSA policy.  I mean Good Lord there are two huge tomes, the GTA and GTSS which are both 100+ pages each.  If that is not enough for you, not sure an additional document will really help

Try to get a shirt that youth will actually wear outside of Scouting events.  If they will wear it outside, they will wear it during

We do a Class B shirt every summer, also for high adventure treks.  Different color and use the dri-fit type.  Over the last 10 years we have used the same front chest design.  Then the back is emblems from the activities we do each summer.  On outings we have multiple colors, but they are all similar design.  

I was pretty sure we had hit on a good overall design as I saw the shirts around town, in photos, and other places worn by our scouts.

The dri-fit was a big hit

Interesting

BSA registration fee is $33.  Boys Life is $12  The BL is optional

Personally I would find another council and tell them to bag the activity fee

I do find it interesting that a 14 year old cannot hold a full time job, cannot typically open a banking account without parental permission, is not able to enter contracts, cannot legally operate a motor vehicle in the US, is not able to consent for sexual activities, serve in the military, vote in elections, cannot purchase a gun, cannot buy liquor or beer, does not have a choice and is required to attend school, cannot fly unaccompanied without a parent or guardian authorizing, and other myriad of items they are not able to do because as a society we have deemed them not mature enough to handle these tasks and responsibilities.....

YET.......

This same 14 year old (or younger) determines they are transgender and everyone is supposed to be on board with this and accept that decision at face value.  To question is to be genderphobic and discriminatory.  Not saying there might not be reasons behind that decision, but seriously, this does call for a rational conversation and exploration and a clear understanding by the youth on the ramifications (short term and long term) of this decision.

Waaay Waaay back in the day we could do the school talks.  This was for Boy Scout troops that made for a fun presentation.  I was the DE and would travel to the schools with tents, backpack, etc.  We would setup in the assembly area, then the classes (boys then) would come to us.  It would be the local unit leaders, or their representatives, and myself.  I would do the basic what is Boy Scouts, then the local unit leader would talk specifically about what the local troop actually did.  Note this was early 80's so no mass crossovers, etc.   We had good response because it was tangible

Not sure we could do that now.  Especially the axes and knives.