Jameson76

The real question is do you feel strongly and are you ready to make the decision that this a beach you want to die on?  Seems like the answer is probably a resounding no.

4 hours ago, SSScout said:

I see three choices...

1) You can accept the requirements as  "passed" and note for the parent and the Scout that "A Scout is Trustworthy" .  I have often found that if the Scout says he passed the requirement,  then he has passed the requirement. If not, ask him would he like to pass it NOW ? 

2) Suggest, if  in your judgement (as Webelos DL, yes?) the Scout has not quite fulfilled the requirements as listed (age, skill, attendance, etc.), do not sign off.  While addressing THE SCOUT (!) not the parent, (because it is the Scout who must pass the requirements, yes?) ask about  the discrepencies, smile and ask "when would you like to pass these requirements? Maybe today or... ? "

3)  Note for the Scout (with the parent  present)  the age and other requirements for Boy Scout joining (listed in the book !) . Review these without ire or judgement.  Note that Scouting is available for all youth and here are the local Scout Troops,  Johnny Scout can join any he wishes.  Wish them well.  Do not do any of these things without BOTH the Scout and the parent(s) present.  And, if possible, a second, silent, unattached, adult  witness.... 

This seems solid advice.  Be ready to just do the proverbial "whatever" to the lawnmower mom, wish them well, and send them on their way

1 hour ago, LeCastor said:

Wood Badge is the same way. As Scoutmaster this year, I encouraged youth to come in and teach several of the sessions. The learners appreciated that! I guess it's all in the approach to the training--teaching and taking.

Wait...you sullied the sacred grounds of a Woodbadge course with actual youth?  They will possibly gain the secrets of WB; critters, coffee making, silly songs, woggles, handshakes, holy ticket items, tartan plaid, kilts,  and other secret whatnot!!

(actually a great idea, some Woodbadgers I have met seem to begin to feel Scouting would be great if not for all the kids hanging around all the time)

46 minutes ago, carebear3895 said:

Just from a Pro's perspective, I always take numbers with a huge grain of salt.

What!!!  Numbers fudging in the BSA???  Sort of like this.....

On 11/2/2018 at 6:29 AM, RememberSchiff said:

June 2017 report regarding an incident at the Wakeman camp that may be related. A den leader made a complaint about Close, the affidavit says, and the director told Close that he would be fired if it happened again.

Question would obviously be: What did the council do with and/or about the complaint.  Was it investigated and could not be substantiated?  Was it properly handled?

That is (I hope) being worked on and investigated now.  There should be no "happened again" in these cases, most need to be treated as one strike and you're out or in jail (after due process)

13 minutes ago, 69RoadRunner said:

In a scout troop, we're only capable of handling so much. 

That is so true.  A troop is not all things to all people.  Do what you can but also recognize the limitations of what you can assist with and where you can provide support for within the troop.

10 hours ago, mashmaster said:

Friday we meet for an overnight activity, kids all pile into my vehicle along with the other adult.   Just before I load up, dad of one of the boys asks me when do I think we will be back on Saturday.  I tell him we aren't sure but probably around 9 or 10 and that his son will call him when we get close.  He says, oh that might be a problem as I am planning on being downtown celebrating.  I tell him that he is expected to be there to get his son.  He says ok.  I proceed to drive the 4 hours to the event.

The next day I get a text late in the day,   "Hey, our concert doesn't get out until 10:30, can you hold on to him for a while until I can get him or take him home."  Now, we are geting back at 9 and downtown is at least 30 minutes away.  I talked with the boy and and I end up dropping him off at home.  30 minutes out of the way.

I totally feel played by the parents, they clearly didn't plan on getting him and wanted to party instead.  

Did I do the right thing in your opinion?  Would you say anything to the parents?  My gut says to tell the parents that I expect them to be there at drop off.

Yep...you got played

We had that happen a few months ago, called parents, no answer, no parents at the pickup, etc.  One of the leaders took the Scout home and left message for parents where they were.  Leader had a productive conversation on Sunday outing returns with the parent that afternoon.

Challenge is how does one manage the parents while offering the program to the Scout.  And that is a tough road to travel down.  For our unit the majority live under 5 miles from the church.  Some live walking distance and after the trailer is unloaded quite literally strap on the pack and walk home.

We are very very clear on rally time to start an outing and when we will return from an outing.  The clear expectation is that you as a parent OR your designated person will be there to collect them at the appointed time.  When we depart for the church from an outing there is an e-mail sent to the troop reminding them we expect to be there by X:XX o'clock and also Scouts call on the way.

This needs to be a frank conversation with the parent, yourself, the CC, and maybe another leader to make sure they are understanding of the expectations

On 11/2/2018 at 11:49 AM, Treflienne said:

And typically look really, really, really sloppy. 

The GSUSA gave up on a "uniform" look uniform in the early 1970s when they went mix-and-match.

Actually having a uniform is one of the things about BSA that appeals to my daughter.

When Worf in Next Generation Star Trek started wearing the sash I always thought it looked like he had joined the Girl Scouts...(Today is a good day to sell cookies)

On Scout Sunday we have Cubs, Boy Scouts, and the Girl Scouts at the church.  The Girl Scouts always look a little random, vest, sashes, not sure..

The uniform is part of the identity of the Boy Scouts.  Wearing the uniform is an outward and visible sign of the membership in the organization

Seems appropriate for this discussion

https://www.nuvo.net/voices/guest_voices/your-kid-and-my-kid-are-not-playing-in-the/article_768c0500-0f5b-5b63-961d-b2be73b3d7f3.html

9 hours ago, gblotter said:

I am a dedicated Scoutmaster who comes from multi-generational Scouting family. I share my Scouting enthusiasm with everyone around me because it is genuinely felt, and also because Scout Spirit is contagious. Along with my enthusiasm, I also explicitly explain my acceptance that not every family approaches Scouting with my same level of vigor - and that's ok. Troop meetings and weekend campouts will not always be prioritized first when choosing between competing activities - and that's ok. Sometimes other things in life are more important than Scouting - and that's ok.

Last night, I held a Scoutmaster conference and signed off an Eagle Scout application for a VERY busy Scout in our troop. He sings in a prestigious boys choir, he plays elite-level soccer, he swims competitively, and he excels scholastically. In spite of many scheduling conflicts over the years, he has somehow made the required sacrifices to also become an Eagle Scout with three palms. I frankly don't know how he manages it all, but I hold him up as an example of a boy who takes an "and" approach to living life. Nobody should be forced to choose between Scouting OR soccer. Enough flexibility and alternatives should exist that Scouting AND soccer should be a viable option for anyone with the desire for both.

Absolutely agree.  We actually schedule some of our fall campouts (if possible) to depart early on Saturday mornings.  This enables some of the HS Scouts to do the football Friday night, march, whatever and still do the outing.  This small change has increased the participation. 

Scouts should be well rounded and do many different things.  Some of ours play football and we do not see them in the fall.  Our current SPL plays baseball and he took the fall SPL slot to accommodate Spring ball.  His Eagle project is focused on some aspect of the HS Baseball stadium.  Some swim, soccer, marching band, water polo, lacrosse, advanced math stuff, church commitments, rugby (yeah we had one of them play that), tennis, golf, AP classes, etc etc.  We welcome them when they can be there and figure some participation is better than none.

Attendance / participation is not about percentages and checkmarks.  Our unit is large, the only written policy we have is about cell phones (single page).  Other than that, it is all situational and we follow the Guide to Advancement as best possible.  Full disclosure we sort of skim the Guide to Safe Scouting and try our best with that one (is it all applicable??)

1 minute ago, TMSM said:

Does BSA have a video I can send new parents that shows what not to do, how to act when new to a troop etc?

The scene where the Scouts go camping by themselves and they rescue themselves is very timely for your discussion.  Also when they take on the army to get their SM out of the stockade during war games shows a good level of personal initiative

43 minutes ago, TMSM said:

Sorry for the long rant but what I decided to do is to have any adult that will be attending a campout sign a contract signaling that they know and understand my role as SM and they will respect the boundaries, Signed and initaled in several places. CC has not let me use these yet.

For clarity from the start we are very clear that the troop is youth led and that either the SM or the Outdoor chair is the leader in charge at outings.  Adult leaders are welcome, not so much if you want to come as a parent.  We clearly camp away from the Scouts, cook and eat together.

As we have explained, our main task as leaders is logistics, safety, and sort of overall timekeepers.  

For ANY parent attending an outing we require them to take YPT and have that certificate, that diffuses some that may feel the need to come and "assist".  We also have a firm transit plan and will only take the needed cars.  Scouts meet at the church and we return to the church, end of story.

We did have one parent who was sort of oblivious to our efforts, he was an Eagle Scout, but had a different drummer he marched to.  He and the younger son have decided to move on to another unit and we feel that is a super decision.

Just now, TMSM said:

Is it helpful to have an ASM that is different than their DL? We tried this with a former DL of the same scouts and it became Webelos 3, the ASM also became a MBC for each feature we had for each month and began to teach them in classes outside of the troop meetings.

Yes it is.  We have a new scout program, ASM for that has not been involved in Cubs for many years. 

Our goal is to get the new Scouts to the NS campout, then the May event, then summer camp.  After that we feel that gives them a good view of the troop, how it may be different from Cubs, etc.  After the summer we roll them into existing patrols and off they go with the patrol ASM's working with them within the patrol framework.

FUN is the main thing, actually the only thing.

We as leaders need to do what we can to make the GAME of Scouting easier.  They lead it and we need to enable and be flexible in our part of it.  Scouts competes with many things for attention in the youth's lives.  Just this week we had a Scout, went to summer camp, but plays football in the fall, he was back at meetings this week.   Let them be part of the Scouts as much as they can

Great results and hope it continues to be positive.

The Eagle candidate determines the manpower needed.  I have seen many project where too many came to help and the Scout spent way too much time trying to find stuff for them to do.  When I work with the Scout our conversation is how many do you need and for what timeframe.  The better learning experience is for them to plan and manage the labor needed.

That could be an interesting project.  Many of the challenges I see with Eagle project plans are not the concept, but it's the write up and assumptions.  Key for the coordinator is to find what is on point and guide the Scout to ensuring they meet the requirements.

You are correct that there is no "build" requirement for an Eagle project.  

The basic requirements are: While a Life Scout, plan, develop, and give leadership to others in a service project helpful to any religious institution, any school, or your community. (The project must benefit an organization other than Boy Scouting.) A project proposal must be approved by the organization benefiting from the effort, your unit leader and unit committee, and the council or district before you start. You must use the Eagle Scout Service Project Workbook, BSA publication No. 512-927, in meeting this requirement. (To learn more about the Eagle Scout service project, see the Guide to Advancement, topics 9.0.2.0 through 9.0.2.15.

Remember what the DE mantra is...

More applications equals more green.....

3 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

12, First Class.

I am hopeful we can find a home in the other Troop but if not, we might have to wait for Venturing age. No Sea Scouts in our area.

There are other troops out there, seek one that meets YOUR Scouts needs.  Troops are like musical groups,  while the vast majority seem to have 2 guitars, a bass, and a drummer, they can be vastly different and can appeal to a variety of specific tastes

On 10/25/2018 at 6:18 PM, gblotter said:

According to this webpage, The Summit is included in the list of BSA High Adventure Bases.

https://www.scouting.org/careers/employment-opportunities/high-adventure-bases/

However, when I examine the website and materials available for The Summit,  ( http://www.summitbsa.org/ )I see no mention at all of WFA as a requirement for units who attend their programs.

To be more specific, is WFA a requirement only for Philmont, Northern Tier, and Florida Sea Base?

I would not think you would need WFA at Summit as you ride the trams between the attractions...though I may be confusing Summit (sorry THE Summit) with the Goofy place in Florida

Good Lord...is there a secret decoder ring that comes with this matrix??

I'm with you on this.  WB is not about running program for scouts (though it used to be).  Now it is basically billed as a management course and the "ticket" items may help program for scouts/youth.  Note that ticket items may be unrelated to actually assisting in program.  Billed as the pinnacle of BSA Adult training, but not sure that it what the results may actually be.

But...apparently you get a neat pink neckerchief, you can culturally appropriate kilts if you desire, you can freely join the WB cult and drink the kool aid, you get the beads (by the way, Q - how many WB beads does a 100 year old oak tree yield?  A- One), you get to become a critter of some sorts, and you get a sense of smugness related to adults scoutery...

Well worth the price of admission

17 hours ago, Bside said:

New member, relatively new Scoutmaster with a few years as an Assistant. Recently, Some members of my PLC had a sleep over. One of the Scouts has developmental delays. He is ADHD, on the Austism scale and has learning disabilities. He is a non aggressive, non violent 13 year old. All of the boys there have known him for a few years through the troop. They all have seemed relatively accepting and patient with him (under adult supervision).

At this sleep over, the other boys began to bully him throughout the night. The adults in the house were sleeping in another part of a relatively large house. At some point, the SPL approached from behind, stood over the boy in his underwear as the boy sat on the floor watching a movie, and straddled the boys neck, pressing his crotch against the back of the boy's head and neck saying he was going to tea bag him. The boy pushed him off and demanded that he stop. The other boys, all part of the PLC laughed at the boy as the SPL persisted, again and again, 4 times until the boy began crying . The boys continued to mistreat this boy throughout the night until he finally called his parents, early in the morning to come and pick him up. 

When his parents arrived, he was crying, angry and very upset. He was ashamed and embarrassed and didn't understand why they treated him that way. As the Scoutmaster, I feel compelled to act. In the few years I have been active with the troop, I have observed instances of bullying and mistreatment among the Scouts. Since becoming Scoutmaster, I have addressed these incidents with the troop many times. I have explained to them that this kind of behavior is unacceptable, impressing upon them that they should be looking out for one another, rather than being unkind. I have explained that the Scout Oath and The Scout Law stays with us all and is not left in the scout room. That they are a code a set of values that we all must try to live by. Values that our society respects. 

I haven't had a chance yet to ask the PLC about this incident. I know from experience that this boy is telling the truth. Before I take action, I must get their side of the story, and discuss the incident with the parents. My plan of action is this; Counsel all of the boys involved. The SPL for his actions, and the rest of the PLC for their failure to put a stop to it. After that the SPL must Mea Cupla in front of the entire troop, explain what he did, why he did it and why it is wrong. He must then apologize to the Scout. I will then suspend the SPL from his position for 3 months. The rest of the PLC that was present will be placed on probation for the remainder of their tenure in their current positions. A further similar act of poor scout spirit will result in me suspending them for 3 months from any leadership positions. 

I invite thoughts and advice. 

Not to split hairs or lessen the impact, was this a Scouting / Troop sponsored type event or was this just a gathering of youth, some (most??) of whom belong to the troop.

4 hours ago, WisconsinMomma said:

Yeah, skip the fact that he threatened to sexually assault a youth with special needs?  Not listening to or respecting the kid who said no and attacking him four more times?  Way to give the kid an out.  

Think about this kid who was assaulted having to deal with this other kid in the future.  How will he feel in the Troop when all his "friends" sat by and laughed while he was being bullied in such a vulgar way. 

Not skip the fact, just the public discussion of the occurrences.

Just saying that that part may not be a good section to be discussed if the choice is to have the SPL address the troop.  Not sure all the troop needs all the details. 

That does not give a pass at all on his actions or the inactions of the PLC group.  This may need to involve a higher level within BSA.  As with all disciplinary actions the facts are not typically broadcast or discussed outside the ones involved

Seems like a good plan.  May want to have the SPL be more generic in his mea culpa, just that there was bullying, it is inappropriate, skip the details.

Tough one as the PLC was involved and stood by. 

Good luck