Buffalo Skipper

If the funds raised were for the project, then it was a part of the project, and should be included. I see this as being exceedingly straight forward; my opinion is, however, irrelevent, as your district may have different expectations. I would check with them for a definitive answer.

Always good to hear about Webelos visiting a boy led troop! I would, like the others here, encourage you not to rest on the laurels of this first visit/meeting with these Webelos. Invite them to you next Court of Honor. This happened to us last year. A small Webelos den came to 2 meetings and attended a planned joint campout. This was great, and the boys were excited about joining. In the meantime, another troop (whose COR had Eagled with our troop 15 years before) "lured" these Webelos to their end of year Court of Honor, where they had a great Power Point on the year's activities (including a trip to Northern Tier and Seabase). We knew these boys were invited, and in fact had our own CoH the same night, but the troop leadership did not want to invite them to ours. I knew then and there that they would go to the other troop, and I was right. This is not to fault the other troop, in fact, kudos to that troop for their persistence and good effort. This is meant to be a reminder that recruiting is not a one time shot--it must be a continuious effort and there must be follow through.

I have an idea, which I have quietly kept in my back pocket until the right time. Have the troop "sponsor" backpack covers for the boys, say on completion of their first weekend trek. Have them "standardized," with maybe their name or troop number embroidered on it. Then patches can be sewn on as the boys like (encourage sewing over badge magic in this instance). A little Scotch Guard on the patch and inside stitching will waterproof the holes, and prevent the patches from absorbing too much water (weight). I may add this to our list next year, as we will likely have an embroidery specialist (mom) join the troop in February.

I centainly understand that the SPL leads troop activities; no immediate problem with this one. And I understand that PLs lead patrols. What I was specifically asking was twofold. First, according to the TLT, it is the SPLs job to conduct the PL training. Untimately, this is my goal, to have the youth run the TLT and instruct the younger, new youth. Our new leadership contracts state they will help train their replacement. In the meantime, it is my opinion that my SPL is illequipped to handle this job. He is effective with the (younger) kids, and has good personal skills and is an addequate leader. He has never been in a Patrol-centered troop, and hasn't himself bought into this concept yet. So what ground do I take on this issue. To our "veteran" (adult) leaders, I have suggested things like Patrol-cars, and genuine patrol food shoping, only to met with a response of blank, deer-in-the-headlights type stares. In spite of this, these veteran leaders are receptive (though skeptical) to "new" ideas, and our parents are really hands off. My second challenge is working with the SPL (and senior scouts) to get them to buy into this; for the younger scout leaders, I do not see this as such an unsurmountable challenge. I paid close attention to the other thread on Patrol Campouts. Our upcoming campout is at a state park, so we will have limited opportunity to disperse our patrols, but we have enough space to keep them separated. The PLC organized this with a surfing activity, but most of the older boys who pushed this through are going to be MIA at sports activities or work. Theodore Roosevelt's command to take San Juan Hill in 1898 was not "Charge!" It was "Follow me!" Instilling this upon our leaders in a patrol-centered troop is my goal.

I really like to give a copy of the "The Legend of Eagle Mountain," mounted and framed. It is an inspiring little story, and something they can keep up with for life. At $8.00 it is a very reasonable cost. http://www.eaglebook.com/certif.htm (I have no affiliation with this site) Our troop provides an Eagle neckerchief and slide, which is presented and adorned on the new Eagle by the most recent previous Eagle.

Stosh, After I began this thread, I did a search and saw the recent thread "How do we build true, independent patrol camping?" to which you contributed a significant amount. I will continue this as separate thread where I can ask some questions of my own. Let me briefly explain my perspective. Our troop is quite old, but has struggled membership wise over the past 10-12 years. We are on the front edge of a predicted of a growth cycle, based upon factors which, though very interesting, are of no consequence in this discussion. Our SM has done a pretty good job for 6 years, but is ready to move on. It has been quietly agreed for 2 years that I will step up when he leaves, which will likely be in about 2 months. In the meantime, he is letting me take the leading role in his stead, while he is stepping back and mentoring me. Our Troop has resonable youth leadership (something I have been working on from the sidelines for a year, though we still have a ways to go), but our older youth are still in the "troop" not "patrol" mindset. On the other hand, our younger membership (2 patrols of 13 and unders) are open minded and with the right support, should begin to "get it." We just had elections, and will be conducting a mini-TLT during the afternoon at an upcoming campout for the new leaders (the entire troop went through the full TLT in March). I don't want to replace the SPL as the instructor of the PLs, but I know the SPL has little understanding of the Patrol method and would do little to pass this on the PLs. Here is my dilemma: if I trust the new SPL (which I should do) to teach the PLs, he will not deliver to them what they need to succeed. If I allow this to happen, but follow up the SPL by then giving the PLs the "right" program, I will undermine the SPLs credibility and authority. This is not about "letting go." Our troop leadership "let go" for the past 10 years, but didn't properly support the leadership, they often just said "it's youth run; I can't interfere." The patrol method is the means by which these younger scouts will learn leadership, and I have no problem with letting them fail. But to let them fail without providing them with the right tools (knowledge) to succeed, is setting them up for failure, which will undermine my credibility and damage their self confidence. So where do I go from here?

I would like to hear how your troops utilize the Patrol Method on campouts. Kind of a broad topic, but I am really looking for things like how spread out patrols camp, how that varies in different settings. Also, what patrol activities does the SPL arrange while camping? Competitions? Separate Patrol activities/training? Just looking for a fresh perspective and some new ideas to consider.

The Outdoor Leader Skills (OLS) program was designed for Boy Scout and Venturing Leaders, and is a pre-requisite for these leaders attending WB. In our council, Webelos Leaders are required to take Outdoor Webelos Leader (OWL), and other Cub Scout leaders are (strongly) encouraged to take Basic Adult Leader Outdoor Orientation (BALOO).

Not to slam anyone here, but I find the words "transitional" and "centennial" somewhat misleading. Does this mean that this uniform is temporary, and that another one is already on the horizon, prehaps to be used after the centennial celebration is completed? (that was a rhetorical question, buy the way) I realize these are BSA buzz words, but can't we just call it the (new) uniform? I personally agree with GW. I think that all Cub level uniforms should use the red numbers, and I think our scout store is selling them that way. Our troop, on the other hand has agreed to do nothing. As new boys join, they will purchase the green numbers and loops. Until that time, we will be use the red, and consider changing when enough of the green shows up. This is not a recruiting time for the troop, so it may be February (Webelos crossover) before we even discuss this again. (This message has been edited by Buffalo Skipper)

This is the official assessement tool for Boy Scout Leaders. I take it 2-3 times a year. It takes 45 minutes or so, but it is a great tool for evaluating you and your unit. http://old.scouting.org/boyscouts/training/start.jsp Sorry, but I do not know of one for Pack and leaders.

Our patrol yell was also "Ta-Tonka!" We also put our fingers up to our heads like horns. I made many good friends with whom I still maintain close contact. Our course was nearly 3 years ago, and we still greet one another with "ta-tonka!" before we shake hands or hug. It is as familiar to me as a warm, well fitting glove. I am pleased to see that others have made the same connection we did. When you disect it, and really look at the meaning, I cannot think of a more perfect patrol yell; after all, "ta-tonka" is Sioux for "buffalo."

The DVD I was referring to is "Personal Safety Awareness for Venturing." It contains segments on Acquaintance Rape, Peer Sexual Harassment, Internet Safety and Pornography, and Suicide and Depression. It is a powerful tool to use with teens.

Sure it is sticky, and certainly you should be paranoid. It is something which you need to handle with both authority and care. Get from your district Venture trainer, the DVD which covers Acquantience Rape, Youth Protection, (and 2 other topics I cannot recall the name of off the top of my head--I have the video at home and I will look it up and post it back here when I find it...). Familiarize yourself with the material, show it to your crew, and have an open discussion about the topics. Ensure that they understand the relationship between advisor and crew member. No need to be overt about this aspect, but present it all. And make it an open discussion and involve everyone. I have actually considered delivering this to my troop's venture patrol. Not the same program (patrol vs crew) but the relevance is the same as are the age groups (though not the circumstances of your situation).

As I understand (local) policy, every scout volunteer pays their own way. No scouter should foot the bill for another. So staffers pay their cost (expenses), which may or may not be the same as a participant's cost. But for something like PH, WB, and Sb, room and board would not be divided out amongst the participants. I would assume that this is the "way of the world," and I can certainly accept this philosophy as I cover my expenses as I volunteer to staff these courses.

I am responsible for our district's Cub Scout Position Specific Training, which we conduct 3x a year. We charge $5.00 per person, this is intended to cover the cost of coffee, donuts (healthy scout food), handouts, patches and misc supplies. Whenever we conduct courses we evaluate the costs and carefully determine what to charge. This year we are also conducting COR training, and MB Counselor training, and there is no charge for these classes. This year, we also are conducting Venture Leader and SM for the same $5.00 but ask participants brown bag a lunch (we provide drinks). My pack has (since before I joined) covered the cost of training. We have one person take a check and write it for the total amount of all participating. I believe it makes a difference, even though we are only talking about $5 per leader. (This message has been edited by Buffalo Skipper)

Of course they will not call all Sea Scouts "officers," only those elected/appointed to leadership positions (as in Venturing). I didn't mean to make that sound misleading.

I am curious to hear how these are handled around the country as well. We started out a Venture RT last year, planning a meeting every 3 months; this turned out to be too infrequent. We are about to try every other month; those in charge do not believe 12/year is going to work. We have had good participation from 4 or 5 crews/ships, but all efforts to facilitate a inter-unit social activity has been tanked by the group. As a Sea Explorer 25 years ago, I was the council president of the Explorer President's Association. We had 3 or 4 joint activities every year, and everyone had a great time. I sometimes think that if we could just get them to buy in and try it once, it would grow, but it just hasn't worked out that way. I am also interested to hear about the change to the term "forum." Is this just a buzz word or is there a genuine change to the RT program?

Good to meet you Chug! I am also a Sea Scout leader, on the North Florida Gulf Coast. Welcome! I would be interested to hear differences in the US and UK Sea Scout programs. I know that is a pretty broad question, but what can you offer? FYI for you US Sea Scouters, I heard a rumor that the term "officer" will soon be referring to Sea Scouts (youth, just as in Venturing) and that we adults will just be called "leaders."

I believe I understand the reason that Webelos are no longer allowed to overnight with troops at camporees. Primarily because this required a parent of each boy to overnight as well. I observed on more than one occasion where this caused confusion at camporees where space was limited, and then to "mix" untrained Webelos parents with boy scouts actually detracted from the boy scout experience. I think it was a smart move. I always encourage Webelos to attend and observe at camporees. Especially when they attend as a den, showing enthusiasm just like a patrol would. Our district, in the past has allowed Webelos dens to participate (as a den) in patrol competitions. It was a good experience for the dens, many of which crossed to troops intact.

I would certainly encourage parents to attend. This will give the parent a reals sense of what Boy Scouts are doing. Depending upon if whether or not you are visiting a specific troop at camporee or if you are visiting the camporee in general, there will be much for Webelos and their parents to learn. Be sure to bring your den flag for the boys to hold high. This will be an opportunity for your den to be seen by many troops as well.

I wore the garters as a youth, and I still have my old pair of socks, garters and tabs. The elastic in the garters is now as flexible as upholstry thread and I can fit my entire foot through the hole in the toe. But I loved them! I felt it was a moral victory when they bought "back" the knee socks I now wear. Unless I missed it, though, I am surprised no one talked more about the significance of the colors. Yellow, reflects Cub Scouts (in all things scouting, except shoulder loops); Green is Boy Scouts; and Red is Exploring/Venturing. This can also be seen in the backs on the Service Stars, which also includes Blue for adult service. I always thougth it was odd to be wearing Red loops for scouts and a Red back on the service star for Explorers, while I wore Green service star back for scouts and Green loops for Venturing. It was all backwards. These colors can also be seen on the WD Boyce New Unit Organizer Knot, where the field is divided into Yellow, Green and Red representing the 3 scouting divisions, Cub, Boy and Venturing. http://www.dougfirdistrict.org/crew/images/wdboyce.jpg

OOPS, I didn't really tell you about the BS Roundtable. Our BSRTC has been in this his position for 4 years now, and he does an excellent job. He arranges various speakers, ususally 30 minutes each, to present on various topics. Once per year, we have an outside Dutch Oven cooking demonstration (with the district's best scout chefs!). Yum. Some of the meeting is devoted to issues, concerns and suggestions, in an open discussion. And of course there is the innevitable announcement time. The total roundtable time is 90 minutes: 7-8:30 pm. I helped organize a pretty neat discussion for August. It was on Webelos Recruiting (not transition or crossover). There were actually 4 presentations, the first to the commissioners (who meet the hour before roundtable), on how to work with CS and BS units to prepare for recruiting. The second was to the BS group and focused on finding Webelos, meeting with leaders, and pitching program. The third was to the SPL group about how to prepare meetings and campouts for Webelos visits. The last was to the CMs, CCs and Webelos leaders of the Cub Scout group, and focused on what to look for in a troop. It also included a District Troop list which included Charter Partners, meeting place and time, troop websites, SM and a second contact for each troop. Presentations were taylored to its audience. The timing of the presentation (August) was important, as a troop should be prepating at this time to seek out and find Webelos programs. Part of the reason behind this one was to help improve Webelos-Scout transition numbers.

We have placed a slightly different spin on Roundtable, but I am sure it is done somewhere else. We start as a joint meeting of all 4 roundtable groups (Four? I'll come back to that in a minute). The joint portion allows leaders from all groups to mingle, visit and maybe even learn something via cross-pollenation. During this 10 minutes, we only cover things which are pertinent to all groups like upcoming training, popcorn, recharter, and the like. Sometimes the DEs present awards here, but we don't discuss things like CS Family Camp, BS Camporee or anything which is specific to one group and not another. All groups break up, Cub Scouts (the largest group) stays in the main room, Boy Scouts head to another large room, while the Venturing Forum heads to a smaller room, as does the SPL Roundtable group. SPL Roundtable? Sure. We have a commissioner assigned as SPL RT commissioner. Invited are SPLs and ASPLs. They have about 30 minutes of leadership training, specifically pertaining to meetings, and spend much of the rest of their time in open discussion about troop leadership issues. It has been a huge success, as it really allows the SPL/ASPLs from many troops to interact and learn (in the same way we Scout leaders and Cub Scout Leaders do). Recently, the SPL RT group expressed interst Camporee planning. This has been a great help to the District Camping committee, and it has really put some leadership back into the hands of the troops. Attendance at camporees is actually up as the troops have had more of a hand in the planning. It has been in place for just about a year now, and we believe it is going well, and slowly growning.

Click23, Thanks for all the info. I will ensure that that gets passed on in my district.

My WAG would be that it is a committee type position which would be a job of sorts (coordinate an activity, transportation, interact with a school for meeting space, etc). It really doesn't look like an "official" position patch--the style is all wrong. Or prehaps it is a local thing. I have certainly seen nothing "official" on this.