Buffalo Skipper

Several things. First Perdidochas, you really hit the nail on the head with the first word you wrote: "Obviously." You rattled me with that, but I needed that perspective. Thank you. Stosh, I want to create what you have said, a clear expectation. And Beavah, you describe exactly what I am trying to change, and I know it is an uphill battle. For several years, our meetings were from 7-8pm with the expectation that nothing really got started until 7:15 or so. Meetings were disorganized at best. This was addressed at the PLC last March, with the notion that meetings should last 90 minutes. It was the PLC which decided to meet from 6:45-8:15. It is a rare meeting when things begin before 7:00. At the September elections, a "leadership contract" was implemented which included the following statements:SPL: "Arrive at all meetings 15 minutes early..."PL: "Arrive at all meetings 10 minutes early..."TG: "Arrive at all meetings on time or early..."etc.All these have been signed by the elected troop leaders. I will gladly bring this up at the next PLC, but how can something like this be enforced? I do like the idea of an incentive, Beavah, but, forgive my lack of imagination, what kind of incentives can you suggest? (I tried that with uniforms last year, which worked ok, but that was with a physical reward, a bit more overt.)

Over the past few years, 2 local troops that I know of have had their trailers (and equipment) stolen. Since then, it has been the unofficial advice of our local scouters to not store troop equipment in their trailer. It is inconvenient and timely to fully load everything before every outing, but that is what we have done. We are working on a means by which we can better secure our trailer behind a gate. Our trailer is almost invisible from anywhere, so it has not yet become a target; in spite of this, we take precautions.

We have a real problem in our troop with being on-time. We have, usually, 2 or 3 scouts who show up on-time (early) and everyone else shows up anywhere from 5-30 minutes late, including the SPL. Last night, our SPL called me 30 minutes before the meeting to say he would not be there. I asked if he had also called his ASPL; he said he would try, and called back 20 minutes later to say he could not get ahold of him. One of the TGs was supposed to do a backpack packing demonstration, and he walked through the door 30 minutes late. I sent him home, as our "senior" scout had already worked up (with my help) and was delivering an alternate program. This is one of a number of "issues" with our troop which need to be addressed. I have discussed some of these with you, others I will wait before throwing out to the wolves. Any ideas on how to correct this and get this back on the right track.

Kahuna, I know we traded PMs earlier, but I wanted to show the forum this (if they are interested). It is a localnewspaper article from Thanksgiving Day on Vick Vickery. I don't know how long this link will stay active in the paper's archive. http://www.pnj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2008811270352 Enjoy!

My father served as a Scoutmaster and Cubmaster long before I was ever born; when I was a teenager, he was the Skipper of my Sea Explorer Ship. He passed away earlier this year at the age of 91. I am thankful that I he lived as long as he did and that I had the opportunity to seek his counsel and know him, and that he pass on to me so much of what he knew and believed in. The father of two of our pack's cub scouts was killed 2 nights ago in a head on crash involving a drunk driver. As we all remember the many, many things for which we are all thankful this season, please take a moment to pray for Chris and Ryan and their family, as they may be having a tougher time remembering the things for which they can be thankful. I am thankful also for the varied and helpful advice I recieve from all of you, as we work to make scouting a better place for our boys and girls. A happy and safe Thanksgiving to you all.

Adding to the request, I would be interested in seeing stats on Venturing Silver awards, Ranger, and especially Quartermasters. Great info. Thanks ASM 411. Eagle Class of 1980

Sounds interesting. I am not sure that I like that, as a first impression, but it does make sense, as a UC should not wear unit numbers. On the same lines, neither should a unit scouter wear the arrowhead in on anything but a commissioner's shirt. Actually, I have one multi-use shirt with hook-and-loop numbers, POR and arrowhead. I recently removed the arrowhead loop, but on the odd occasion that I would wear this shirt as a commissioner, I guess I can put the arrowhead in that spot. Maybe there is a little method behind the madness. Nah.

We took some time at a recent meeting to lay the foundation for our "Webelos Fun Day." I had a good ideas of what I thought we should do, but I put it out to the troop for event suggestions. After some discussion, they narrowed it down to these 10: Obstacle courseFireman's CarryFlag FoldingRope TossTent PitchingScout Law RaceKnot Tying RelayHammer ~n~ NailSkin the Snake andLift that Weight as well as:Spirit, and Den Flag Awards Some of these are timed, others are based on accuracy. I suggested 2 events (based on equipment I have access to that the scouts were unaware of), but they came up with 15 and made the decisions on which 10 (12) to use. As we have a fairly small troop (15), each scout has taken one event, and the extras are available as floaters. We had a camporee a few weeks ago, and they were able to envision many of these events. With that in mind, they really took ownership of the activity, and are looking forward to putting it on. As I said earlier, we will provide lunch and do a troop pitch before awards are presented. I have used my connections to invite "neighborhood" packs (covering maybe 1/4 of the city) to this activity, and so far I have been met with encouraging responses regarding participation. With Webelos 1 and Webelos 2 dens, we are looking at at least 6 dens coming out, and I still have not heard back from 2 large and 2 small packs. If things continue to shape up the way they have, it may well be a successful event.

Not to battle semantics, but YPT is to be completed before a leader is allowed to interact with youth. I would hardly consider an ASM, a youth interactive leader, "trained" if he was not allowed to work with youth.

On of my wife's favorites is (sorry I don't have the tune): Happy Thanksgiving! Hur-ray! Hur-ray! Hur-ray! Aren't you glad you're not a turkey, On this Thanksgiving Day. Hey!(This message has been edited by Buffalo Skipper)

I would consider an ASM to be "trained" (e.g. wear the trained strip) when they have completed Boy Scout Faststart, Youth Protection (YPT), New Leader Essentials, Scoutmaster and ASM Leader Training, and Outdoor Leader Skills. Additionally, before they participate in any outing, I would strongly encourage them to complete the Weather Hazards course, and before a swim/boating outing complete the Safe Swim Defense and Safety Afloat. These courses (as well as Faststart and YPT) are available online, though some councils/districts still may deliver this material in a classroom setting (except for Weather Hazards, which is only online, as far as I know). Wood Badge is an advanced course, and not required. Personally (and others here may disagree), I would encourage an ASM to attend Wood Badge within two years.

When I slipped into the cubmaster role several years ago, our B&Gs were long winded and boring. I worked to streamline the process and ended up with an event which was talked about as the best B&G in the district, and we kept it to 75-90 minutes, including dinner (2 years ago, we sat 250 for the meal)! We open with a greeting, a welcoming of guests, and follow up with the FOS presentation. The pack usually donates $500, and with 50-60 boys, we often top the $4000 mark. We do a raffle, as scouts bring up pledge cards, and it is a fun time for all. Then is dinner, which we usually have catered. Sometimes we have a buffet, others it is brought to tables (Web 1 dens plans B&G at the direction of the Web 2 dens). The troops who are recieving our Webs serve and clean up the meals. During the meal, we have a slide show of the photos from the pack for the past year (always a hit!). As soon as the meal is done, we cut the birthday cake (we celebrate it with the pack's b-day on it as well as cub scouting...this year it is pack-46 and cs-78). While we are eating desert, we begin our presentations (we are now 45 or so minutes into the program). All Tigers come up (and their parents) to be recognized. We focus on their ranks and other special awards, not on BLs. Then comes the Wolves, Bears, and finally the Webelos (both 1 & 2). We then move on to the AoL presentations, and we have the OA do our crossover, which is a marvelous ceremony, certainly the climax of the night. Then, we wrap it up with a recognition of all den leaders (including a small token--last year it laser engraved cubs scout name tags on cherry), and then special presentations to the departing den leader(s), followed by closing. We always invite the CoR, IH, UC, and DEs. As the Council Commissioner has ties to the pack, she is always invited as well. Our plans for 2012 (pack 50th anniversery) include inviting all the past cubmasters we can locate. Feel free to PM me to get a copy of our program, and ceremonies. I will be glad to share this with you.

Thank you all for the input and suggestions. I read and kept up with you posts, and used your ideas (in part) to layout a plan to address the parents (this has been an ongoing plan, and we were just trying to smooth the edges). We recruited several parents to the committee. Though we wanted one or two ASMs also, we had over the past two months reviewed our parents and had no foresaw no viable candidates, so we were not unexpectedlydisappointed. Fortunately we have seen several prospective parents in the Webelos crops we are recruiting from our shared charter packs. Once crossover takes place in February, we will be using a different process to recruit parents to help out with our committee and leadership. We are working on those plans now.

In our WB courses, troop guide presentations are made in a true outdoor setting (weather permitting), and no ppts are used. Most TGs use ppt type printouts and flip with a standup notebook. (on the back side are notes, so they don't have to read the slide. It works well.

Stosh, I am not the SM, yet (another month). Our CC is a great guy and an experienced scouter, but a weak recruiter (he also works offshore, 2 weeks in town, two weeks on the rigs). I am currently a committee member, and we have only had 2 other active committee members for several years; there was also only the SM and no active ASMs. It was nice (in a way): no conflicts, easy to make decisions, and few complications. There were obvious drawbacks, most notably, it was difficult to pull off larger activites, and BoRs were infrequent, at best. With a small troop, this was tolerable. As we are expecting 15-18 new scouts (with only 13 experienced, and 8 of those at 2 years and under), we need better committee support, including activity planning, transportation, fundraising and availability for BoRs. We have been working over the past year to "upgrade" our youth leadership and the patrol method (they go hand in hand). Likewise, our committee is greatly improved over where we were at this time last year (they had not met in nearly 6 months at that time), but we need to kick the committee up another notch if we are to hang on to the boys who cross over.

In our district (and council), all rank advancement occurs on the troop level, Eagles being without exception. As such, all EBoRs are arranged by the troop, so they take place at troop designated locations. In our troop this is done by the Life to Eagle coach. The only obvious differences between a regular BoR and an EBoR is that it is usually scheduled separately from other BoR and troop or committee memeting times, and it is attended by one or two district EBoR "team members." Other attendees are arranged by the troop L2EC, who is an ASM, not a committee member (so he never sits on an EBoR). Our district has two dozen or more of these EBOR "team members" (for lack of a more formal title). Some are members of the District Advancement committee, some fill other roles in the district, council or units, while some hold no other position in scouting. About half dozen of these are older scouters who Eagled in our troop, but are no longer registered with the troop. I have attended several EBoRs for members of my troop; these people are well experienced and I can say that their presence adds positively to the experience. When the L2EC schedules an EBoR, he contacts the district, who has a list of district personel who attend. They are simply called in order until one or two are reached who are available; for the next scheduled EBoR, the next name on the list is called first. The whole thing happens easily, effectively and without any obvious hangups or delays.

Nothing like a little last minute planning. We have a relatively small troop (15 active--2 will age out by February), a small committee and 2 inactave ASMs. In February/March, we are expecting a Webelos crop which will double (or more) our active troop size this year andare planning on 15-20 more nexg year as well. Rather than get behind the 8-ball, we are trying to proactively strengthen our committee and troop leadership before our new Webelos cross over. There are several parentsin the crossover group who will make good leaders, but it is failure to wait. Saturday evening we are having a "Family Dinner" for all troop members and their families. After the meal, the boys have a lock-in, but the parents will stay fora short presentation I am putting together about the future of the troop. I will be covering logistics as well as equipment, but my focus is to be on recruiting new committee members and at least one ASM. I am an experienced cub scout leader recruiter, but have never reached out to parents of troop boys. Do any of you have any suggestions I can incorporate: methods, key phrases, poems or stories to inspire parents to get on board? As much as I would like to keep it to 30 minutes, with all I have to cover, I expect it to take about 45. Any and all ideas are welcome.

Very moving. Yes, thank you.

My ideas about scout camp may or may not be the same as yours. With a large troop, consider going to 2 camps. Certain logistics need to fall into place for this to work, but hear me out. Assuming you have the leadership to support it, try to arrange an early summer trip to your local camp, then 3 or 4 weeks later go to a second camp, outside your council. Look for a camp which has a good high adventure program for the older boys, which may be a new experience for them. Encourage the younger boys to attend the first year program at your local camp, then, if any go to both camps (maybe half or less will), they can focus on other MBs at the second. Middle scouts (13-15) are the most likely to go to both camps, and that way they can do MBs at one and a high adventure at the other. One advantage to this approach, is that if families are planning a trip which would exclude participation at one, they have a second opportunity to go, and not as a "lone scout." Another advantage of this approach is that if you do have a large troop, you will likely have slightly smaller contingents to each of these camps, which can sometimes be easier to manage. We have a couple of medium-larger troops in our district (25-50 boys) who take this approach. It can't fit every program, but if you have the leadership and support, it might be worth a try.

Not sure if I was effectively making the point on parents signing off on items, or if I muddied the waters by mistake. As some WAB requirements option earning the Belt Loop, I was suggesting that BLs be done at home, and not to spend meeting time completing the requirements for these (and try not to make it "homework"). As such, it is the parents who would acknowledge the BL requirements, rather than the Den Leader. Obviously Webelos requirements, including WAB and AOL are to be signed off by the leader, not parents. Clear as seawater?

First of all, and not to hijack your thread, but I am not an advocate of W2s meeting regularly with Boy Scout troops. Boy Scouts are of a different maturity level than Webs. Throwing elementary school aged boys into the mix of middle and high school boys can be very problematic. However, that's not what you are inquiring about. Webelos meetings should be first and foremost, fun. Many activity badges give the option of earning (as a Webelos) belt loops to fulfill requirements. These should be done a home and signed off by parents. I am against the notion of making meetings Activity Badge sessions. Certainly you can (and should) cover some of this material during den meetings. Even if that is your focus, you should be cautious about boring the boys with this kind of curriculum. Don't turn you Webelos meeting into a classroom--you will loose their interst faster than you can whistle "Tom the Toad." Likewise, team building is really not a part of the program. Obviously, if you choose games which promote teamwork, that is all good. But keep fun the focus. Also remember that if your den preforms or leads skits or songs (or opening or closings) at a pack meeting, take a few minutes of each den meeting to practice this. The Webelos Leader Guide give good lesson plans. If you work on one Webelos Activity Badge (WAB) each month, with an average of 6 requirements per WAB, cover only 2 at each meeting. If you spend 15 minutes on each, broken up by skit practice (or whatever), throw in a 10-15 minute active game, by the time you have added an opening and closing, your hour is done. One of the best resources at your disposal is Cub Scout Roundtable. Come out if you can make it.

Wow! That's really neat. I have been planning to do a 3-5 minute segment on scouting history, leading up to the Centennial celebration. This is something I can include at some point. Thanks.

We are ordering a number of Cascade 4200s for our younger scouts. With the small belt,they work out to about $80 before shipping. We are also ordering some of the Cascade 5200s for our teenagers. Others are enamored with pockets; I am less concerned about that. but it looks like we will have about 6 rust colored packs on our hike in December. We ordered one as a sample, (and loaner) and on close inspection, we are very pleased with the pack. It has all the features a younger scout needs in a pack.

Scottawildcat, If you are interested in a "brag vest," it is my experience that a cub scout/webelos can have pretty much anything on there that he wants. It is really what he wants to show off from his cub scouting experience. My son on his wore all of his family camp patches (9), webelos weekend patches (2), Scout show, Good Turn for America, non-scouting patches which were earned as den/pack activities (hiking trails, zoos, and such), and whatever he has. This is not an "official" uniform item, so pretty much anything goes. On the flip side, we do family activities (camping, hiking and such during vacation), and we sometimes buy patches which he sews on his daypack, as these were not done as a scout/den/pack activity.

Our CO "provides" our Trooop with a scout hut. It is on church property, and is a 40x60' building. The building was built (as a scout hut) by volunteers in the 70s. Some of those volunteers still work with the troop. At the time it was built, the troop was 70+ strong. We are now an active troop of 15 boys, but we are beginning to share the building with 2 cub scout packs. Though it is on church property, connected to church power, we (the troop) is entirely responsible for it's upkeep and maintenance, including all costs. Following Hurricane Ivan, we paid to have the roof reshingled. The outside (35 years old) was in bad shape, and the church Board of Trustees directed us to fix it up (it really was becoming an eye-sore). We did so this past summer at a cost of almost $2000, doing most of the work ourselves. I am an active and involved member of this church. I am sometimes miffed that we must foot the bill for what is a church building. On the other hand, the building us used entirely by scouts (troop and 2 packs) and there is no "interference" by the church on what we do. The cost of good facilities. Interestingly, 40 yards across the parking lot, is another church building, now used by the youth (and the troop when needed). This building was the council service center, 20 years ago, until a new property was secured and a larger building raised. This old building was the scouot office when I was a scout, and I was active council leadership (Explorers) and frequently attending and conducting meetings there. It is uniquely nostalgic that I have access to the builing now. In fact, the troop will have a lock-in there this weekend. Another troop/church across town has the most stunning A-frame you can imagine. It was also built by church/troop volunteers 25 years ago and is a much more significant structure than our scout hut. It is probably 70x50 (or larger) with 30' peak height, plenty of storage, and even a means of string up tents to air and/or dry out, high enought not to interfere with meetings. Unlike our troop's scout hut, which is hemmed in by other church buildings and parking lot, this other troop has probably 5 undeveloped acres (mostly field) and even a campfire circle and benches (seats 75 or more). The district is blessed with occational access this large facility for outdoor skills training (Baloo/OWL). Do these troops require such lavish facilites? No and yes. Other troops do well with less elaborate meeting places which are shared with other groups. But we do have a sense of ownership, and have built good programs around what we have.