Buffalo Skipper

I just recently came across my historical flag cards from the 1981 Jamboree. Thanks for the refresher course. I had forgotten some of those specifics about them. I guess as a scout, I was not aware (or do not remember) that they were called "wide games."

costalscouter, Welcome! You came to the right place. I hope we can all give you some useful information on this subject. Let me first address the issue of counselors. Check out page 127 of the Scoutmaster Hanbook. It clearly states, "The scout obtains from his Scoutmaster a signed merit badge application [most councils use a 'blue card'] and the name of a qualified counselor for that merit badge..." The next paragraph says, "Scouts may work on any merit badge at any time, assuming they have the approval of their Scoutmaster." Either alone or together, these statments clearly indicate that it is the Scoutmaster's responsiblity to help manage scouts and merit badges. One example, if a scout's parent is an RN and is registered as a First Aid MBC, and a committee member (non parent) is an EMT and a MBC as well, I may send that scout and likely his close friends to the EMT to work on the merit badge, while I may sent other scouts to the parent/RN. Likewise, I try to get to know a merit badge counselor a little before I allow any scout to meet with them. As such, I have a reasonable sense of which scouts may work best with which counselors. I fill out and choose who will be the counselor for which scout. As for training, I believe that every counselor should go through the MBC Orientation course. A good friend of mine and I deliever training for the district, and for troops who requrest it. As Scoutmaster, it is my policy to only assign and utilize trained counselors for merit badges in our troop. [if you want a copy of the Powerpoint I use for our troop MBC Orientation, please PM with your email and I will gladly forward you a copy.] There has been much discussion on the forum about completing and interpreting requirements for merit badges. As an example, Camping MB requires a certain number of overnights to qualify, or for Pioneering MB requires that a scout participate in a troop pioneering project. Look at how this requirememt is phrased. That will give you a clue as to whether or not it could have been completed before beginning the MB. On the other hand, read the project requirement for Citizenship in the Community, which requires a scout to pick an organization then with the MBCs apporval, complete a project, which suggests it cannot be done before starting on the MB. I hope that helps. If you have any additional questions, just ask.

Pack212Scouter, $800 to $1200 is a difference of $400. At a difference of $5/leader, are you suggesting that your pack has 80 registered leaders? Wow! I just can't imagine a pack that size being able to function effectively. (no offense intented, I am just shocked!)

Personally, I like the green better. And it isn't so much that I give a hoot, I just think that it looks better to have all our troop in the same thing. That's why it is call a "uniform," because everyone is supposed to be.

Certainly I understand. When I was a Sea Explorer down in Long Beach a quarter century ago, our skipper was also a mate with another ship. Combining resources there was not uncommon; I have seen that less here on the east coast.

Sounds like the AMR was as smashing an event as it has been for over half a century! The regatta I paticipated in as a youth (King Neptune Rendezvous) was based upon the AMR, and even looking at both the last KNR (2005) and the most recent AMRs, the similarity is obvious. Keep up the hard work building up the ship. Rendezvous like these can easily be the foundation on which a unit really becomes a ship. Glad to hear that you combined resources with other ships to make it happen.

Our patrols use the plywood tables as described above. You can see the plans here: http://familyfun.go.com/Resources/picnictable.pdf As mentioned above, this is a table for 4 scouts (6 is not crowded if you add a chair at each end). It is self supporting and easily broken down and transported. Each table is made from a single sheet of plywood. We use 13mm meranti or okume (marine grade plywood product), which equates to 1/2 inch. We reinforce the seats for a little added strength; this weights 2/3 that of one made from 3/4" ply. Each patrol's tables (2 per patrol) is painted the patrol color. Each patrol has a color, which they use to mark many of some of their gear. So the Pedro's tables are green; stags are brown, etc. We used acrylic latex. It is pricy but rock hard and easy to apply and clean up, and it is food safe. These tables are set up under tarps, so there is little real exposure to the elements. We repair and repaint as needed (once ever 2-4 years). We have a permanent building where we meet, and these tables are set up in each patrol area for most of the month. For campouts, they are easily disassembled and taken along. Ususally one per patrol is sufficent while camping.

sailingpj, Certainly you are correct. And a skipper must use his best judgement to act accordingly to ensure the safety of his vessel and crew. Sorry to all if it was interpretted as to suggest otherwise.

Always like to hear positive feedback on Sea Scouting! Good support by the media is always a plus as well. Thanks for the head's up.

I really like that Ice Cream recipe. We will have to try that--maybe at summer camp. Food, to me has been an issue for our troop for some time, but in a mixed bag sort of way. I have covered some of this in other threads, but let me quickly sum up. In the past: Menues were planned by patrols and approved by the SPL and SM. Much ado was made about menu emphasizing not only balanced nutrition but also food quality. One or two (or more) patrol members went shopping with the leader, who scrutinized the product choice strictly, sometimes to the point of changing menus. The leader then paid for the food. At campouts older scouts avoided anything resemebling work and the younger ones were overwhelmed by clean up. Too much time was spent on this. Now (after 3 months of adjustments): Menues were planned by patrols and approved by the SPL and SM. Balance and nutrition is paramont, but no judgement is made on "quality." Now, PLs collect $10 to for meals and designated shopper(s) pay with cash. Adults accompany only if asked (to stash food in the fridge at the scout hut), but do not scrutinize choices. Cooking is much simpler, and meals are balanced but less fancy (burgers, omlette-in-a-bag, etc. Clean up is quicker, and scouts (most active in our troop are 5th-7th graders). Scouts are able to spend more time having fun at campouts. Though food quality is taking a step backward, I feel we are moving forward for the obvious reasons. I am proud of our young scouts for being able to take responsiblity for they actions and their confidence in shopping and cooking is actually improving. We will spend an extra day at summer camp (arriving the day before due to travel distances), so we will still have to cook/prepare a breakfast and lunch before camp begins. Our other campouts this summer will be for long weekends, lasting 3 and 5 nights respectively, giving scouts an opportunity to prepare plenty of meals and refine their skills. I do feel our patrols are growing in ways they should be.

BadenP, Apparently we read sailingpj's post differently. He said: "...the only time I have ever seen a Skipper act like a CO is when we are on the boat and under way, and that is only because the crew is very new and they don't know night navigation...." I think his point is that were they more experienced (like many of the other ships in his area, and like so many around the country) the youth would be more in charge, and the Skipper would only step in as an issue of safety. In many ways this is no different than a Boy Scout troop. The SPL is in charge and the SM should only step in when there is an issue of safety. In sailingpj's case (see his post in "New to the Forum"), he is working to rebuild his unit and recruit new members as the older scouts have all aged out and everyone is quite wet behind the gills. Again, I am sorry to hear that the skippers in your area (wherever that is) are less likely to train and trust the Sea Scouts to preform their duties. That is not the intent of the program, and based on what I have seen on both coasts over the past 25 years, the adult run program you describe is not the norm.

One of our scouts (now an Eagle and ASM) was big on duct tape. Every outing, he would make an new duct tape gadget. I know he made wallets and other interesting things. On one hiking trip, he made a pair of "hiking moccasins" out of duct tape. He proved their usefulness by wearing them the rest of the way out loaded with his full pack. He was a strange sort: he usually backpacked with a full set of school text books, just so he would have some reading material. He was a cross country runner and he was always the leader of the "fast" group.

Our troop has a mix of dutch ovens (I do not know the brands). I have a Lodge which I like better than some of the troop ones, even though it is smaller. Mine has a lip around the edge to hold the coals, while the troop ones have a dome top and a different lid handle. We also have a plethora of gridles and fry pans. If ever you find yourself near Chattanooga, go about 45 minutes west to Pittsburgh, TN, where the Lodge factory (and outlet) is. The Lodge company is actually a Charter Partner for a troop (I bet they are stocked!); I met one of their scouts who was a staff member at Skymont last year. I can never get the troop to stop at the outlet on when we drive by. I will have to keep working on that....

eghiglie, I am glad to hear you made it all the way to Star and that the Oath and Law have had an impact on your life. Let me add that as a Sea Explorer, I made it all the way to Able. Though I wish I had followed through with my Quartermaster, I am proud of my accomplishment. I first heard the "once an eagle" spiel when I was a scout, from an adult leaders in our troop. I do not know how old he was, but I would guess he was near 50, and he spoke of his experience in the past tense, implying that it was when he was a young adult. That would suggest to me that this expression (or one like it) has been around for at least 50 years. Suffice it to say that this is not a new marketing technique.

sailingpj, Good to have you aboard! I am one of a handful of Sea Scout leaders who participate actively on the forum. Ask any questions you like, and I am sure we will do our best to respond. Good luck with the recruiting. That is possibly the most important and yet challenging part of the program.

***********We interrupt this thread for a minor hijack************ "I compete in my town with a well run, active adult led program and I have about 1/3rd the boys as they do...." Stosh, I am not trying to put words into your mouth, just to understand your meaning: are you suggesting that an adult run program is likely to produce a larger troop, and/or that a boy led program results in a smaller unit?

I do not know what the "appeal board" will expect. I would speculate (and I want to make it clear that this is conjecture only) that they will handle this largely like a regular review, which is to say, this is not a trial. I would expect that they may ask him some extra and pointed questions about his scout spirit, and even may look for his opinion on why the SM and committee took the position they did. Remember that a BOR should be a friendly meeting. This is neither a Grand Jury investigation nor a trial where your son has been "accused." I hope I am not wrong, but it would be sad to hear that a review would be handled in a litigious manner.

And of course the real question is, will it have an effect on my hairline?

Keep in mind that the new uniform comes in a choice of 2 materials, Supplex nylon or cotton rich popplin. I had always presumed that the cotton was for more of a "dress shirt" and that the nylon was for more outdoor (if not activity) wear. In response to Eagle92s input about the 90s activity and field uniforms, I assumed having 2 materials was a more subtle attempt to accomplish the same thing.

Duplicate post. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

I am going to borrow this from AskAndy (with due credit as he always asks he is given, though admitedly, I edited this ever so slightly). It is to me a powerful message for all and is entitled "the other 98." Youve probably heard that only 2 Scouts (or perhaps 4) out of a hundred make it all the way to Eagle. Yes, that makes it pretty rarified air where those Eagles fly. But what about those other 98? Are they grounded forever? Short-changed in some way? Missing something critical to success? Lets look at some facts here...The Boy Scouts have Aims & Methods. There are 8 methods in Scouting things like the Scouting Ideals as found in the Oath and Law, the Patrol Method, Outdoors, Personal Growth, Leadership, and so on. Advancement is certainly one of these eight but only one. There are six ranks from Tenderfoot to Eagle, So lets do a little math. If a boy becomes a Life Scout, he will have been exposed to five-sixths of one of the eight Methods, and (we hope) all seven of the rest. That comes out to just about 98% of the program Scouting has in mind! And this means that even if a boy never makes it past Tenderfoot, but he goes hiking and camping, learns from his Scoutmasters modeling, lives the Oath and Law, and so on, hes going to be getting 90% of what Scouting has to deliver. Hey, 90% of anythings pretty good, I think! Thats usually an A in school, or close to it! Not bad for a non-Eagle! So, for those Scouts or former Scouts who are Life, Star, First Class, Second Class and even Tenderfoot, when someone asks you your rank, please dont put the word only in front of ityou have nothing to be ashamed of and much for which to be proud! And this Country has much to thank you for! Because you are or were a Scout. The Scouting Statistics tell us that, of the (first) 233 men who became NASA astronauts, 133 had been Scouts and of these 33 reached the rank of Eagle. Thats certainly commendable for those 33, but how about those 100 Tenderfoot-through-Life Scouts who became astronauts! Doesnt this begin to tell us clearly that just being a Scout makes an incredible difference?! So, the next time someone tells you that Eagle is all that matters, you can tell em to take a better look around. Weve had some 100 million American boys who, since 1910, have been Boy Scouts, and I really dont think 98 million of them have had some sort of inferior experience. In fact, maybe these guys had a little less pressure and a lot more fun! So, lets salute all Scouts 98 plus 2 who get involved and stay with this wonderful movement. Scouting can truly last a lifetime, no matter what rank anyone is! Sure, most of us know about some pretty famous Eagle Scouts, like Sam Walton, James Lovell, Walter Cronkite, Gerald Ford, and Steven Spielberg. But how about some not-quite-Eagles, like John F. Kennedy, Harrison Ford, Richard Gere, Bill Gates, and a not-quite British Queens Scout by the name of Paul McCartney!

It appears I am to be the lone dissenting voice here, but it wouldn't be much of a topic if everyone had the exact same opinion. I really like the bellowed pocket. In fact I saw it as an excellent update. This style is quite popular with fishing type outdoor shirts (Columbia and such). I have some non-brand versions of these and I find them extremely comfortable. In fact, for several years I have quietly stated I hoped that BSA had the insight to make a uniform shirt with many of these same qualities. My thought was that we would actually have a uniform we could wear in the outdoors. At the same time, with the bellowed pockets, we would have an outdoor shirt which looked to be in step with the general public, even if we do put a ton of patches on it. Unlike when the ODL shirt first came out, the changes between the recent and new uniforms were subtle updates. The old shirts would still blend in (if you changed the unit number and red epaulettes), but would be better and more functional. In spite of all the complaints (which I still feel are mild compared to when the ODL shirt first appeared), I thought BSA had finally done something right. According to what is being said here, it appears that BSA may be backtracking on the shirt, and I think that may be a mistake. Sure, I would prefer 1000% that it was made in the USA, and there are improvements to be made (would have been nice if they had figured it out before they started selling them...). And I know many of you have complaints about many features of the shirt, but I still feel that the new shirt is a better product for Boy Scouts, both the youth and the program as a whole. Try not to be too harsh on me for that opinion. ****Warning--Begin Rant here**** I do think that the name "Centennial uniform" is a stupid marketing ploy. What are they going to do, change it again after next year? Or maybe rename it once the "Centennial celebration" is over. It is not like I am foolish enough to believe this shirt (or any other) will be around for another 100 years. ****End Rant****

We have several superfund sites here where I live, and in fact I grew up in the watershed of one of the big ones (no ill effects). These are being treated at the original location, no effort is being made to clean up other contaminated areas (these are obviously not asbestos). Anyway it is never good to hear of any scout camp being closed, for any reason, but especially for something like this. How do they clean up the ground at something as large as a scout camp? Is there any chance of reopening the camp next year or sometime in the future? Are these cleanup expenses covered by the Superfunds?(This message has been edited by Buffalo Skipper)

Actually discussing in detail the conviction(s) by the SE with the IH & COR is also a violation of the privacy clause, all the council can say is that the person failed the check based on a past criminal record and is not eligible for BSA membership, period. As was said earlier a person either passes or fails the check there is no discussion or compromises, the CO is simply told to find someone else In response to my original post, the offense was listed on the application, which was acknowledged and signed by the COR, who had discussed the issue with the applicant. There was no issue of privacy between the SE and COR in this instance. But I do agree with you that to discuss the specifics is a violation of privacy issues.

I spun this from Beavah's minimum requirements thread. I have had these thoughts in my mind for a couple of weeks, but that thread was the catalist which allowed me to bring it together. I am less intereseted in what you think, but I am looking for some ideas to make this better. Please offer your advice.... When you look at the requirements for your next rank or a merit badge in which you may be interested, what do you look for? Do you look for the easiest way to finish it off? What if you know you can do better than what is easiest? Do you do better? If you play for a soccer team and you score a goal, would you quit playing and say I did my part. If you were the goalie would you walk away after stopping the ball 10 times? 15? 20? If you came upon an accident and someone was bleeding, would you help bandage his or her injury and then leave, because you had done your jobyour daily good turn? If you are a Tenderfoot scout working toward Second Class, you must participate in a service project taking at least 1 hour. If you had the chance to work on a project for 3 hours would you do it? What if it lasted 6 or even 10 hours? You see, being a scout is not about doing the least you can do or meeting the minimum requirements. It is about doing what is right, and then doing more. Doing a good turn daily is not about counting when your last good turn was before you act. It is about acting, without counting how many you time good deeds you have done. That is doing your best. Many of you recently attended Jasons Eagle Court of Honor. Do you think he earned Eagle by doing the minimum required, or do you think he did more? I think he did his best. What will you accomplish this week: will you put your effort into figuring out the minimum you can get away with, or will you strive to do more than is expected of you?