Buffalo Skipper

Excellent ideas all. I especially like the "Triple Crown" idea. (On a side note, I wonder if the HA base in WV will be completed in time for these 11 year olds to have a shot at a "Quadrouple Crown." ) And I concur that starting small, on the troop level, is best. I am not really looking for specific ideas of what we can do; we have plenty of resources and ideas. My real quandry is what how to empower the PLC to take ownership of these activities. I keep thinking about Kudu's Green Bar, and though we are working through that now, it does not really give the scouts "vision" outside of their limitied experience. And some of those who think they can envision these activities really think it is too much work, and really don't want to participate anyway. We have been talking about a long canoe trip (70 miles down the Suwannee River, August) but the scouts aren't showing much interest in learning about canoe packing and planning for the warm-up trip in 2 weeks. The PLC wanted a climbing campout planned for October, but no one wants to take ownership of planning it. It may happen, or it may not. Some of these scouts really don't like backpacking (it is a mental block for them, not a true aversion), so we are planning to do some day hikes from a base camp as prep to an short and longer backpack trip this fall/winter. Then we are planning to do a Manatee swim (which we traditionally do as a family campout). I am wondering if these above average adventure trips are the right steps to giving ownership to the PLC. I guess what I see are that these scouts are just lazy about planning. They are looking for this to be a Webelos 3, rather than Boy Scouts 1 or 2. I think our youngest scouts do have the interest to do this, but they are just too young to take ownership of this process. And I am concerned that they will be tainted by the attitude of the "older" scouts.

Any of you who pay attention to my posts (some of you may not) are aware that I work with a young troop. For scouts (mostly 6-8th graders) who may not have the big picture of scouting and scouting adventures, how do you encourage them to select and plan a "higher adventure" program? Looking for ideas to discuss with you and to bring back to the PLC.

First of all, Pow-Wow is a BSA sanctioned and recognized activity. University of Scouting, though organized and supported by a council, is a council effort, and there is not national curriculum, and is not recognized as such. Cub Scout leader Pow-Wow is an official supplemental training activity for Cub Scout and Webelos Leaders, and is intended to be run on the district level. Any council which organizes a UoS program creates whatever they want, and it will vary greatly from council to council. I have heard that many councils do incorporate a Pow-Wow into their UoS program. Most Scouting Universities are single day events, but others are weekend mega-events. Speculating here, it is possible that Scouting Universities evolved from cub scout leaders who liked the idea of a Pow-Wow and wanted to create a similar experience for Boy Scout leaders; or it may have come from the Commissioner College program. Then again, it may have come from both. There has been an effort to organize one in our council, but it has not happened yet.

We follow the same proceedures as BrentAllen and for the same reasons.

I see EDGE as a useful tool, but more along the lines of a "management" than "leadership" model. I would be disappointed to see this as part of any requirements. I would rather see a First Class requirement to participate in a troop level leadership training program and a Life or Eagle requirement to participate in a Council level leadership program. There is still good in NYLT, I can sense it. We can turn it back from the Dark Side if we all remain focused....(This message has been edited by Buffalo Skipper)

And as BrentAllen stated, regrardless of the age of the counselor, it is the Program Director's name which went on the forms returned to the troops. I did speak to the PD, and he explained that records are kept maintained at the Council office for many years. Likewise, I found an error on one of the forms. One scout was not even on the role for Basketry. I had watched him complete his projects before every other scout in his class, and every one was clearly the best done. I brought this to the attention of the Handicraft director (also over 18) and she corrected and signed the form. My point being (and Brent's, I presume) are that there is s system of checks and balances, which in the case of the camp we attended, appear to have worked very well. I can also attest to the fact that the counselors (and I use the term generally, regardless of age) were the best I have ever seen at any camp. Each facility/camp/council is responsible for their own program; it appears that the one we attended did an outstanding job of maintaining the policies and standards of the BSA. I have not seen this level of conistency at other camps I have attended.

Thanks Jet. Any suggestions on fields to pay attention to so that retrieving the info is easier or any other tricks that work well?

I have a question about Troopmaster. We have been working hard to update everything in Troopmaster. We have our activities dating back to January 1990. We have well documented our Merit Badge Counselors and adults. We have not really explored the options on Point of Contact management,and though I have looked at it several times and have included a few individuals, I feel I am missing alot, though I am not quite sure exactly what. Can anyone with experience with this function please offer some explanation and advice on its use. We have stacks of resoruces, but it is grossly disorganized, and I would like to store this in Troopmaster. Thanks in advance.

Welcome JEvola--it's good to have you at the virtual campfire. Yes, he can (and in my opinion should) wear both a Cub Scout and Webelos devices on his knot. This is, to my knowledge, the only award which uses the Webelos device. And be sure to have him wear his Cub Scout and Boy Scout service stars (yellow and green background), properly adorned above the knot. Of course, make sure he his other uniform insignia is correct and attached neatly. Yes, it is acceptable to wear temporary patches on the back of his sash; "temporary insignia" is defined by the BSA as special insignia for participating in unit, District, Council or national events or programs, which would also exclude any position insignia. But personally, I feel wearing the temporary insignia here is over the top. Though meaningful to him personally, they do not reflect any required information for his earning his Eagle rank. I would encourage him to wear one on his right pocket (which will, unfortunately, be obscured by his sash). This is, of course his decision. I would encourage him to be sparing and tasteful in this presentation, as like the one on his uniform shirt, it will not be seen by anyone on the Board of Review (until he leaves the room). Again, welcome, and good luck to your son as he has is Board of Review. Look at this link for a little more info: http://www.mninter.net/~blkeagle/sash.htm

Good question, 1982. Did he show remorse? No. Were the other scouts upset? Well kind of. I was not particularly concerned about an agressive retaliation, but I was hoping for a more effective, measured response from the other scouts, but as our troop is so young (and this behavior has never really happened like this), the scouts did not know how they were supposed to react. You see, this was part of the problem we had at camp this year. We had several scouts who were discipline problems (I don't want to get sidetracked on those here), but it seemed as if any "punishment" which was dished out by the PLC was warmly embraced by the offending scouts. When the scouts missed breakfast, they simply dropped by the canteen to buy slurpees and ice cream, which they preferred to breakfast anyway. Another example was two scouts who skipped out on watier duty at lunch one day were given 2 days of waiter duty for the troop, which was great with them, as that meant they didn't have to stand out in the hot sun and they got to eat before everyone else. We had to share the campsite with 2 other troops, so we only had to clean the latrine twice. It was considered assigning the offending scouts to the latrine duty, but as it occurred on the morning we had already cleaned it, and it would not would not be our turn to clean it again for 2 days, it wasn't much of a consequence. After a quick conference by SMs and Committee members, it was agreed that these disciplinary scouts would need to be accompanied by a parent on their next outing (a step I loath to take). Wouldn't you know it, one of these scouts started jumping up and down saying "You mean my dad can come along? Cool!" But maybe that tells us alot of what the problem is anyway.

As always, thank you all for your sound and wise counsel. A few things to add quickly. He was not a Cub Scout, and in fact joined the troop the day after his 11th birthday, which was 3 weeks after the other scouts crossed from the packs. His PL is quiet and reserved, but by far the most responsible and reliable scout in his patrol. So much of our troop is so young that this is probably best handled by adults (the scouts would rather just do it for him than fight the good fight), though in another year or so, I hope that our troop has matured enough to handle these situations on their own. I agree that it is easy to be impatient or get angry with the scout, but that is not the way to reach him. I don't know what carrots we can offer him; I will look into this more. And no, he is not the only one we have; but he is the most severe case, by far. Our other "problem" scouts fall under different catagories, but the advice given here will go far to assist with their growth as well.

ASM59, I also missed this when I tried to spin off. When you choose "spin-off," look at the green bar at above your username. The drop down menu says something like "choose topic," or somesuch. Hope that helps.

This scout is just plain immature. He has supportive parents, but I can only assume he is given no responsibilities at home. He was not homesick, and has been to church camp for a week several years. I would describe him as the laziest scout I have ever seen, but like the fly, that would be inaccurate. He spent 10x the effort getting out of the task than he would have ever spent doing it. If any of you are familiar with John Rosemond, you will understand that this 11 year old scout has never progressed past the "toddler" stage of development. He is the center of his world, and anyone who doesn't believe that simply hasn't yet realized his truth. He made Tenderfoot, but I do not know if I can, in good conscience, sign off his scout spirit for 2nd Class. To him the only valid point of the Scout Oath is "... to do my duty to myself." Oh wait, that's not really in the scout oath is it? We he almost had me convinced.

Greetings everyone! We had a good time at summer camp, but I have run into a scout with whom we are facing some challenges. He is a new scout who was not in Cub Scouts/Webelos. He gets along with his patrol members fine, but he absolutely refuses to do any work. I can go on about him, but let me offer one example. At camp he was charged with sweeping a portion of the pavillion. At first, it appeared that he just didn't know how to sweep. But as he was given instructions on how, he simply was unwilling to follow a single example. It became clear to the (adult) leaders that he really didn't want to complete this 5 minute task. His 45 minute effort to stall, delay or just avoid the work ended up making the entire troop late for breakfast that day. As the week progressed, we kept a closer eye on him, and it became obvious that he did no work at all, and that he spent a considerable effort convincing others to do everything for him. I would say he has the attention span of a fly, but that really would be insulting the fly, because when I reach out to catch a fly in my hand, that fly will give me its undivided attention until he flies off or I catch him. Any ideas on how to work with this scout?

Be_Prepared, Thanks for an incredible week at camp! It was an experience our scouts will not soon forget! Have a great rest of the summer.

As the owner of a small sailboat, I always considered Composite Materials and Woodwork MBs of particular value. www.heartofgoldsails.com

As I have said before, we are off to Camp Woodruff Saturday morning. It is 77 miles as the crow flies from Daniel Boone. Woodruff and Daniel Boone are both popular stops for troops throughout the south looking for a change of scenery and climate. This morning, I began receiving emails from concerned parents, which I had been anticipating. Thanks to the good information posted here, I have been able to address this confidently to our parents. I expect that I will hear more about it as we stop at our medical stop as we check in on Sunday. We will be mindful of any health issues. I have one scout (SPL) who, like Hal, is likely to cough each spring with the pollen. We may even pick up a digital thermometer just so we can try to screen our scouts. Personally, I am not concerned, but we should be prepared. I do like my wife's attitude when I mentioned it to her yesterday. She said "I guess if you get sick I'll drive up there and bring your butts home and nurse you back to health. You can't keep them in a bubble, you know."

Glad to hear it. Keep us posted. I was just thinking about this the other night when I had provisional scouts on the brain, and was wondering what was up with this scout. Have a Great time at camp!(This message has been edited by Buffalo Skipper)

Camp Daniel Boone was our first choice for camp this year. I went to reserve a spot there back in October '08 and they already completely filled for the summer. Even if they do a good job of cleaning up, I can't imagine that they won't have a drop in attendance for the remainder of the season.

I was considering doing what many of you are doing. When I came into the troop, we were having one or two COHs a year, and MBs were only being presented then. We are now up to 3 a year, and with our continued growth, we should have 4 next year. And I do want to see that MBs are presented at meetings. I do have one more question for those of you who present immediately. What do you do after summer camp? Do you have a Court of Honor right after camp, do you you present them at a meeting afterward? We are small enough to get away with presentatinos after summer camp, but I can see where that would be more challenging in a larger troop.

Our troop is big in prensenting rank patches immediately after the BOR. Then at the next COH, we recognize the scout in a more formal ceremony, and present their rank card at that time. I think this is a common practice for many troops. Are there any troops which handle merit badges in the same way? If not, how do you recognize scouts for merit badges and when. I am just looking for a fresh approach to this.

My interpretation is that some people see EDGE as a management tool and not a leadership skill. From my perspective, it is neither. As a trainer this is an instruction method, one which can improve one's ability to manage. As Gern has said, "Well, DUHHHH!" I believe that the process of EDGE is obvious to leaders. My 2.

I agree with you. But as I said, it is complicated. I had just had a SM conference with this scout for 2nd Class. He has been with the troop for almost 2 years. And he does have most everything completed--but no one had ever signed him off. We had just in fact been meeting at a pool and had been completing the Swimming requirements for most scouts. Likewise, the month before, we had done First Aid, and I had just been looking at his advancement records in Troopmaster; I knew exactly what he had done and what he had signed off. I guess what concernes me the most was what he did with his brother's book. His brother (17) is only a 2nd Class. There has been much debate in the troop regarding this, and some of the older scouts have refuted this, but he has never had his 1st Class SMC or Board of Review. He is a very smart teenager (straight A's a school which today came out as being ranked 53rd academically in Newsweek!), and he is very active in Student Government. His is using in his daily live the skills he has learned in Scouts. He has 23 merit badges, but will never be an Eagle. He has been a great scout but is only in the last few months become completely inactive because of his academic demands. But back to his little brother. The younger scout came up with his brother's book showing me where he WAS signed off with a SMC and a BOR. This was not recorded the way we do it, and it was obvious it was "fake." I asked whose initials those were, and he said that of an 18 year old ASM/Eagle who has not been at a meeting in a year. I had just a few months ago seen the older scout's book, and I knew it was not signed off. It was after this that he showed me his book showing where his brother had "signed" it off. As I said, I was busy when he was showing it to me, and only when thinking about it the next day did it sink in. He would be having his BOR for 2nd Class tomorrow, but I have withdrawn my support for the board. By coincidence, he is out of town and would not have made it anyway. I have not had the chance to have another conference with him, but I will next Monday. With having nearly every 1st Class requirement done (we talked about this at his SM conference just 9 days ago), I can't understand why he forged the apporovals, and then showed me his brother's book to "prove" to me that I was wrong and that he "is" a 1st Class. It just doesn't make sense to me.

I recently had a scout approach me with his handbook and he showed that many of his requirements had been signed off for First Class. The initials were scribbled and when I asked, he said they were those of his older brother. I actually put off the scout on this, as other things were happening at the time. This is a complicated story, but suffice it to say that after some checking, his brother did not sign him off, and it appears the scout forged his brother's intials here. I will offer more if it becomes relevant, but what is the best way to address this?

Oops, sorry double post.(This message has been edited by Buffalo Skipper)