MikeS72

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3 hours ago, jscouter1 said:

This might be slightly off topic for this, but if I am considering option #3 right no. Does anyone think that another troop would take offense if I do a dual membership thing just to join the OA?

As @scoutldrstated, you do not "join" OA, you are elected by the members of your troop.  In order for someone to be elected, the scouts in the troop should know that person well.  Were I still a youth member I would be leery of voting for someone who dual registered for no other reason than to use our troop to gain election to OA.

If becoming an Arrowman means that much to you, I would either try to convince your SM that being elected to OA is not going to cause you to neglect your troop, and therefore allow an election to be held.  If that cannot be accomplished you have to look at the possibility of leaving your current troop and transferring to another unit.  If you choose that option, be aware that a unit may only have one election per year.  I many areas those elections may have already be conducted, so you would have to wait until next election cycle, by which time the scouts in the new unit should know you well enough to decide whether or not they want to elect you.  I hate to bring up the negative aspect, but understand that not all scouts who are eligible for election or who would like be elected are chosen by their troop.

What ever decision you end up making, I wish you well in all of your scouting endeavors.

3 hours ago, jscouter1 said:

This might be slightly off topic for this, but if I am considering option #3 right no. Does anyone think that another troop would take offense if I do a dual membership thing just to join the OA?

As @scoutldrstated, you do not "join" OA, you are elected by the members of your troop.  In order for someone to be elected, the scouts in the troop should know that person well.  Were I still a youth member I would be leery of voting for someone who dual registered for no other reason than to use our troop to gain election to OA.

If becoming an Arrowman means that much to you, I would either try to convince your SM that being elected to OA is not going to cause you to neglect your troop, and therefore allow an election to be held.  If that cannot be accomplished you have to look at the possibility of leaving your current troop and transferring to another unit.  If you choose that option, be aware that a unit may only have one election per year.  I many areas those elections may have already be conducted, so you would have to wait until next election cycle, by which time the scouts in the new unit should know you well enough to decide whether or not they want to elect you.  I hate to bring up the negative aspect, but understand that not all scouts who are eligible for election or who would like be elected are chosen by their troop.

What ever decision you end up making, I wish you well in all of your scouting endeavors.

I think that is a reference to any appeals via District Court.

2 hours ago, scoutldr said:

Quoted from a Facebook group comment:  "New Cub uniform from waist up has gone up 23% and handbook from 16.99 to 23.99. Pocket cards from .19 to 29. Belt loop from 1.49 to 1.99. 1819 items had a price increase in the cover of darkness overnight on Thursday. Councils notified at 7am in Friday."

Not sure when this increase went into effect, but looking at scoutshop.org now and Cub handbooks are still listed at 16.99.

Are these badges you sewed on, or are they the ones that were done by the Scout Shop when you bought the shirt?

After removing the world crest that was on a shirt when I bought it I found that our Scout Shop used a spray adhesive to hold it in place when the sewed it on.  It left a light circle of reside which I removed with Goof Off and a toothbrush.  You could also try acetone, although I would test it on the bottom of the shirt tail first.

52 minutes ago, Oldscout448 said:

Firstly  let me say that I appreciate  the link @acema606 

Next I must say that I've never been so upset by any program change in my  Scouting life, and that includes the ISP of the '70's!  I see how the changes are intended to provide links and hidden clues to the Brotherhood and Vigil ceremonies.  It's  skillfully done.no doubt of it. It's absolutely  dripping with symbolism.  BUT, not one candidate in a hundred will notice them, much less understand them.   The ceremonialists might if they've had a few years of  experience.  No one else. It's not unlike the hidden meaning in the counterclockwise movement  of the principles in the Preordeal ceremony opposed  to the clockwise movement in the Ordeal and Brotherhood ceremonies.. Except that this change actually detracts  from the ceremony.  The repeated short and simple conversations between the principles as the candidates enter the circle was designed to reinforce the idea that admittance to the Order was something earned not given.  

This flies in the face of the primary purpose of the ceremonies.  They are supposed to be understandable,impressive, memorable  and meaningful to the candidates . Not be a  showpiece for how many references  and allusions can be inserted.  Nor should the candidates be told that they now understand concepts and principles that they probably don't.   On a side note, the Ordeal and Brotherhood ceremonies are not one ceremony on one night separated by 6 months.  No matter what J. Dunbar says. They're just not. Never have been.  

I've  seen many changes both in the ceremonies and in the Order itself in the last 47 years.  Some good some bad.  But this one is is  ..

Words fail me. Scout like ones anyway.  

 

 

 

Downloaded all three ceremonies, but have not had time to read through them yet and compare them to what we have been using for the past few years.

(I do still have to catch myself once in a while when reciting the obligation... I have on occasion gotten some strange looks if I have a flashback to the 60's and include words no longer a part of the current obligation)

I believe this appeared in G2SS about the same time that the bit regarding all district/council short term camping events must meet certain NCS standards.  Done to ensure that even when it is a weekend district/council event we are maintaining (hopefully) a reasonable level of quality and preparedness, such are sanitary facilities and the presence of trained personnel in case of emergencies.  One of the reasons our council has a director of short term camping.

22 minutes ago, jcousino said:

How can a troop buy anything as they are a subpart of the church or sponsoring group? 

I do believe that was meant a joke/sarcasm. 😁

8 hours ago, mrjohns2 said:

This discussion made me think of a Scouting "political cartoon" that I saw before, but can't find. It was a "two cell" cartoon with "What they were told Scouting would be" and then the other "What Scouting is". It showed adventure in the outdoors on one side and a meeting in a Church basement on the other. I seem to recall this might have been British. I would love to have a copy if someone knows it and can post a link.

I have seen that cartoon multiple times.  As soon as I run across it again I will save a copy and post it here.

7 hours ago, SiouxRanger said:

And my Catholic unit remains unchartered, and apparently no catholic units in my diocese have been rechartered,

You are not alone.  We were informed a couple of weeks ago that while the two Catholic chartered units in our district signed charter agreements for 2022, at the end of the year the diocese will cease chartering all units in the council.

1 hour ago, skeptic said:

Part of this notes that the registration element is separate from the Charter, and that is supposed to happen still if necessary.  Councils should have the details in regard to that; again as per the article.

 

I spoke with our council registrar today about all Methodist units in our council showing "on hold" in the recharter report that I access using Commissioner Tools.  I was told that until this is resolved that nothing can be processed or posted for any of those units.  We have both Scouts and adult leaders whose paperwork was included in charter packets who are still in limbo.  We cannot enter any advancement, or input any activity logs for those folks until there is a resolution and council gets a signed charter agreement.

Someone on high needs to authorize councils to process these units before we hit the timeframe where they will drop off of Scoutbook altogether.

Stay safe.

Looks like the same one I saw a few weeks ago, which makes me a little more hopeful about our situation with our CO.  I am looking forward to seeing how many individual churches decide to continue chartering units; I do know of one in our district that has basically said the letter is irrelevant and they will not continue to sponsor their pack and troop.

25 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

We were told there is some buffer.  It sounds like it may not be a hard stop January 1.  BSA understands a large number of charters are not renewed in time.  I'm trying to get a bit more info.

There is a buffer, at least from what our council has told us, both to allow for units who do not get their re-charter posted in a timely manner (my district is the only one in our council to have 100% of our units submitted), and also to allow council registrars to get them all approved and submitted to national.  

I did not see anywhere that stated whether or not you submitted payment for the members of your unit and have just not paid the $75 re-charter fee.  We are a UMC unit, and that is what we were instructed to do.  I have seen posts in other online forums stating that some councils have given that guidance to units with whose CO they are still negotiating.  In any case, as several others have stated, your situation does not mean you ceased to be a unit on January 1.

3 hours ago, PACAN said:

The current status is "the song that never ends".

This could well be the first ELP lyric I have seen quoted here!😁

8 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Go to camp locally with your kids as part of a Provisional Troop (is that the Maverick program you were talking about??), with you "volunteering" as the Provisional Troop Leadership.  

Every camp we have attended in recent years offers both a leader discount and gives 2 free leader slots based on the number of registered Scouts.  Most are for having at least 5 registered, with additional free slots available for larger units.  We take the total number of adults attending and subtract the free slots from the total adult fees, divide by the number of adults, and that is what we pay.  Some years we have reimbursed leaders for gas costs, other years we have chosen to drive without being reimbursed to keep the per Scout cost down.

As for attending as part of a provisional unit, every camp I have ever attended offers provisional units, which are staffed by paid camp staff, not volunteer parents.  So allow parents to attend (Woodruff Scout Reservation allows parents to attend with their provisional Scouts, at $155 per adult; our local camp discourages parents but will allow them based on medical conditions but houses them away from the provisional area).  You could register your son and daughter, along with your wife and yourself at your local camp as a unit of 2 & 2 and share a campsite with another unit.  (unless you can fill a campsite, or come close to filling it, you will usually share that campsite anyway)  

Here is hoping you are able to come up with a way to make this work for your Scouts.

While I have not seen this particular reproduction, I do have at least one original uniform for each decade from 1940 to the present.

P.S. - I looked at the linked website, and according to the description they stopped taking orders last September.

9 hours ago, SiouxRanger said:

4.  Our troop has not paid for rechartering as we figure we don't know what we are getting for the money. We have a concern that BSA won't be able to provide a year's worth of services for a year's worth of fees. The DE has not asked for payment.

So when you say you have not paid for rechartering, do you mean you have not paid the $75 charter org fee, or you have not paid the fees for each individual Scout to recharter?  I could see units where an entire Diocese has not committed one way or another being treated like those of us sponsored by the Methodist Church and not paying the $75, but still submitting paperwork and paying for Scouts and leaders.  Without at least paying for the members of your unit, I would fear that once the grace period for submission passes you would no longer be a unit.

 A good contingent of UCs is important, and as stated earlier, try to avoid using direct contact leaders to fill those positions.

Strong ADCs, particularly those involved in Roundtable are important.  Be sure that you have people in place who are not afraid to disagree with you when needed, and above all else, do not let it overwhelm you and become the sole driving force in your Scouting life.  We have lost more than one DC who did not know how to delegate and trust his people.  That just leads to an ultimatum from the spouse.

8 minutes ago, PACAN said:

Anyone heard what the Catholic Church might be doing ?

From the National Catholic Committee on Scouting:

National Catholic Committee on Scouting - Home (nccs-bsa.org)

On 12/8/2021 at 5:28 PM, InquisitiveScouter said:

$50...there is only one registration type.  That $50 is the annual registration type...

Which reminds me...that fee should be pro-rated by the month...so, if there are only six months left in the registration year, then it would be $45/2 = $22.50 plus the $5 insurance fee (not pro-rated) = $27.50 for a six month registration.

Fees are prorated, although National's new $25 joining fee is not.

12 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:

This is for all those who believe and defend current YPT.  This happened only 3 years ago.

If YPT policies were followed, it should have been very difficult for something like this to have happened.  

When we did the Protect Yourself Rules adventure with our Cub Scouts, I emphasized repeatedly to them that they can never be alone with any adult at any Scout activity, other than their parents.  Not me, not another parent, not anyone.

The biggest thing YPT related that I hope comes out of this is the elimination of the 72 hour rule.  I have voiced my opinion on this both here, and in my unit, district, and council.  Anyone who wants to accompany us on any outing needs to be registered, take YPT training, and be background checked.  When I have stated this here, I have on occasion been called out, with some stating that there could be many reasons beside CSA that could cause someone to not want to go through the background check.  My view there is simple, and will not change.  I do not care why someone might refuse to register due to the background check requirement.  The fact that they would refuse it is sufficient to say that I do not want them around my Scouts.

Sounds like this may be something that happened quite some time ago, as Randall Stephenson has not been President of BSA since 2018.

Without details, it is impossible to know whether this is something that rises to the level that would get a response from either your District, Council, or ultimately National.  They are not likely to step in and get involved if it looks like internal Pack squabbles.  If indeed you have been legitimately threatened, I would listen to MattR and let the police handle it.

3 hours ago, k3egl said:

I had the opportunity to visit the Program area during the recent Boxwell Staff reunion

When did you staff at Boxwell?

I attended as a youth from approx. '67 - 71; and staffed at Camp Stahlman in 72, 73, & 74.  Did my Ordeal, Brotherhood, & Vigil there, along with Wood Badge.

On 10/20/2021 at 7:35 AM, RememberSchiff said:

Why not use the classrooms, shops, and equipment at local schools? A Scout is Thrifty.

Not sure what the area is like now, but back when I attended Boxwell as a scout, and when I staffed in the early 70's, there were no high schools near enough to the camp to make that practical.  

My current council opened a similar facility a few years ago, which is extremely popular with scouts.  I can easily see some of them going home after their first exposure to some of the trade MBs and deciding that is something they want to get more involved with, perhaps even leading to a good career.  (and isn't that what the MB program should be all about)