MikeS72

7 hours ago, 5thGenTexan said:

From a strictly Scout perspective...  No Wood Badge = Not Worth a Damn Leader

As someone who attended WB back in the day when you had to be invited to attend, I can tell you unequivocally that I know a great many outstanding leaders who are not WB'ers.  I also know leaders who wear 2, 3, or in a couple of cases 4 beads who have no idea how to relate to a Scout on their level or to successfully plan and conduct a quality event.  Before you posted your concerns about attending and the issues you had on that first day, based on prior posts I saw you a leader who cares about his unit and his Scouts.  That opinion has not changed.

As for those people denigrating you on Facebook because of your reaction to WB, as @yknot stated, even on Scouting pages Facebook is filled with bullies who hide behind a keyboard a screen to say what they would never have the courage to say to someone face to face.  Do not let the opinions of internet trolls influence you. 

There are two people you have to satisfy and be true to, you and your Scout.  Do that, and continue to show the care for the Scouts in your unit that we have all seen in your other posts, and you will be successful, beads or no beads.

On 10/19/2020 at 11:52 PM, CynicalScouter said:

This is consistent with what I had been told by someone on my Council's executive committee: only about 40% of claims are coming in with enough specificity as to be eligible for a claim.

Could that be because many of those claims are nothing more than a response to lawyers hawking the idea of a big payday?  

I know for a fact that abuse did occur, and have first hand knowledge from more than 50 years ago.  I also cannot believe, based on the few real cases I have first hand knowledge of, that the true numbers are anywhere near what the lawyers want the public to think.

We had a discussion at a council leadership event almost a year ago on this topic, and what was likely to come in regards to bankruptcy.  We were given the example of someone who filed a claim, but could not recall the name of the council (it hasn't changed in 99 years); they also could not remember the name of the camp the alleged incident took place at (only camp in the council, same name for 70 years); they could not remember the time period or what unit or who abused them, nor could they remember what the abuse was, just that something happened somewhere and at some time, and the council should pay them for it. 

I would think a lot of that remaining 60% of claims may be similar.  We don't know when, where, what, or who, but we deserve money.  I have no problem with helping those who really were harmed, and have been unable to recover from what happened to them.  I was told by a member of the national executive committee familiar with this issue that national has paid out hundreds of thousands of dollars in the past few years, paying the therapist of the victim's choice, without questioning their claim's validity.  Once the lawyers got done with their suits against churches and turned their sights on the BSA, that was no longer considered an acceptable response.

As to the lawyers wanting CO information going back countless decades and unit rosters as far back as they may exist, I see that as a case of 'here is a list of troops that used to exist where you once lived, pick one out and then look at the roster and pick a name, preferably of someone who is no longer around to dispute your claim.'

Sorry if this went on too long, but there is a reason why statutes of limitation exist, and this is a prime example of why.  It is almost useless to try to prove something did or did not happen 50, 60, or 70 years ago; which is exactly what these lawyers count on to help make today's scouts line their pockets.

On 10/12/2020 at 4:33 PM, yknot said:

I've never done WB and any interest in it died the first time I watched a bunch of grown adults sing that kooky song at a COH that led to two of our newly crossed over scout families immediately pulling their scouts out, lol

Interesting.  I have to wonder how and why what sounds like a beading ceremony at a CoH would cause someone to pull their scout out of your unit.  Was it particularly obnoxious, and if so, how bad could it have been to make someone say they no longer wanted their child to be involved in scouting???

I will agree that many times beading ceremonies can be a little off putting to those who have to sit through them.  I have seen several done at roundtables that seemed to go on for ever (mostly due to presenters who assume no one in the room has any idea of the history of scouting and WB and needs a nice long lecture on said history).  Unless you have an entire patrol being beaded at the same time, five minutes should be more than enough.  I am not sure when some councils decided that elaborate beading ceremonies were necessary, a simple congratulations for completing your ticket should suffice.

As one who took the course back when it was that weeklong advanced skills program prior to the changes @Eagledad mentioned in 2000, I can say that we never considered the need for a public beading.  My beads and regalia arrived in a plain manila envelope, courtesy of USPS.  The closest to a 'beading ceremony' I had was all of about 2 minutes 2 years later when our course director took off my 2 bead thong and put on my third bead, shook my hand, and on we went with course prep.  This was 48 years ago, and yes, we did sing Back to Gilwell frequently, but did so the same way we would sing any camp song; there was no dancing around in circles as if we were still first year Cubs.

When you bring up Scoutbook you should see 2 log in options (if you are a Den Leader).  Choose Den Leader Experience to plan an organize your den meetings.  It will populate the calendar based on the information you give and on the required activities for your den.  You can then move them around and put them in the order you choose.  You can also add in any electives you want to work on, and drag and drop them to the dates you would prefer.  When an activity has been completed it moves into 'history', at which time you can mark attendance and it will automatically give credit to those scouts for what you did that night.  Once you add in electives, if you change your mind about one, you can delete it from the schedule, but you cannot delete a required adventure, just move it to a different date.  There are a whole host of resources for den leaders to use, and in particular, for new den leaders.  If you click on a particular meeting, you can then click on each section of the meeting and get step by step details for that activity.  Material lists, directions, etc.

As for editing the calendar, I use the regular login for that, and when adding something have the option of adding it for just my den, another den (I am pack admin for Scoutbook) or the whole pack.  I can put in advancement at that time as well, but if I do attendance in the den leader experience, it is already done for me.  Communication tools are still a part of the regular Scoutbook login as well, and I still use them.

An experienced, well organized den leader can function normally without using this feature, but for new den leaders, this is really a good resource to take advantage of.  There are some features that need to be added to make it more of a one stop shop, but it is a much needed step in the direction of making life for new and inexperienced den leader better.

On 9/3/2020 at 1:21 PM, 5thGenTexan said:

Now, in the past few minutes my insider is saying its not an additional fee and shouldnt have been included in the recharter letter we got.  

That is something kinda big that should have been proofed better I think.  I am interested to know WHAT it is if its not included in the fees.

Unless Circle Ten is deciding to walk back the council fee, that pricing is right in line with what we will pay here in Central Florida Council.

I would hope that other councils will do as ours has, in that when they announced back in January that this fee would be coming, (only thing we were not aware of was the new $25 joining fee, which I think is a mistake by national) they also announced that beginning in 2021 there would no longer be any charge for district level events.  Families that have been used to paying $35 per person for Cub Family Camp or district camporee will no longer pay anything for those events.  Even if they only attend 2 district events like that each year, they will come out ahead.

Congratulations!

1 hour ago, CynicalScouter said:

A council with a functional structure?

Where would you find such a magical creature?

Ninety eight years maintaining our original council borders here, must be doing something right.

On 8/29/2020 at 12:14 PM, Sentinel947 said:

The 6th edition is highly regarded.

The 6th edition is the one I used when I was a new 11 year old scout.  I have had and used every version since.  

I also have several older versions, the oldest originals in my collection being the 1924 handbook for boys and the 1929 handbook for scoutmasters.

37 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

If the BSA has a committed group of volunteers it can recover from anything.

Thank you.  My thoughts exactly.

51 minutes ago, 69RoadRunner said:

To help out my wife and daughter, I just had to pledge to be a sister to all Girl Scouts.

I guess that means my younger brother was also a sister when he was one of my niece's GS leaders.🤣

18 minutes ago, tnmule20 said:

Do you really think this council has a target on it's back now?  Are they going to get punished?

Probably not the smartest decision MTC ever made.  I hope it does not come back to bite them in the posterior.  I spent all but the first 7.5 months of my time as a youth in scouting in Middle Tennessee Council, and while I have not lived there in almost 50 years, I still look back on those years as among the best of my life.

1 hour ago, CynicalScouter said:

Ok, so then there are councils doing this since at least 2012

https://www.delmarvacouncil.org/document/introduction-to-outdoor-leader-skills-test-out-application-form/119292

http://www.baltimorebsa.org/document/introduction-to-outdoor-leader-skills-test-out-application-form/119292

 

Sounds like some folks are 'doing their own thing' up there.  As far as I am aware, there is no nationally sanctioned 'test out' option.  As a matter of fact, my council was one of a couple a year or so ago that wanted to do IOLS/BALOO online rather than in person, and national was all over them when they got wind of the plans.

When I moved from Webelos Den Leader to ASM, I registered for the next available IOLS course.  When I arrived, our district training chair looked at me, and said 'what are you doing here'.  When I replied that I was there for IOLS, he responded 'why, you probably know more about this than I do'.  During my last stint as an ASM in the 80's IOLS was not around.  Since it is required for SM/ASM to be position trained, I registered and attended.  I never considered asking to 'test out' due to being an Eagle, being WB trained (way back in 1972), being on WB staff, or having more years than I care to count as an adult leader.  I sat and listened, and when we got into practical skills, I stepped in and helped those who had never been scouts as youth (along with a couple of recent Eagles who had forgotten most of their knots).

There is always value in actually taking part in IOLS, even if the value is you stepping up and helping those with less experience.

8 hours ago, Liz said:

As a side note, are parents supposed to be able to enter stuff in Scoutbook? I have been unable to update my daughter's rank advancement in Scoutbook since her last Pack change (our old Pack ceased to exist). I was her den leader in the old Pack though, so I thought that was why. 

By default all parents have full control over there scouts in Scoutbook.  As a key 3 member, you should have full control over everyone in the pack.  I would recommend clearing your cache or logging in with incognito mode, and see if that helps.  If not, I would post that question on the Scoutbook forums page, one of the SAC folks may have a solution for you.  Also, as far as being part of the key 3, double check your positions under my.scouting.

While parents can enter things they have done with their scout at home, it must still be approved by a leader.  (As a side note, we tried to turn off full control for parents at the troop level, and were unable to do so.  That can then cause issues when parents are marking merit badge requirements as complete when they are not merit badge counselors.  We had that happen recently, when a scout was awarded a MB that is usually only done at summer camp, yet he did not attend this summer or last summer.  When I looked at him in Scoutbook, mom had marked off several requirements that were not completed 3 summers ago, and our advancement chair evidently did not look at it before awarding the MB.)

On 8/5/2020 at 11:11 PM, MattR said:

Making a fire on a frozen lake from a pile of wood stacked 8 feet high is fun

That could be funny indeed!  By the time that 8 foot stack burns down to 1, it will be time to do swimming merit badge.🤣

22 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

While my document is out of date, it is posted on a BSA website. I do not believe yours is a BSA website.

That link comes directly from scouting.org.  Search inspection sheets on scouting.org and it will take you to that page.  You will also find the 2018 inspection sheet at the link below, also from scouting.org.

https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/510-75018-WebelosInspection_WEB-1.pdf

20 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Considering the National Supply Division, the ones who sell the uniforms, is still stating that Webelos can still wear  the Blue Uniform, I think that the new rule will be overruled with the next handbook printing, which the way things are going will probably be in 2022 or 2023.

 

https://mediafiles.scoutshop.org/m2pdf/6568_103111_Web_UniformInspSheet_R11.pdf

If you look at my earlier response to this thread, you will note that while I am a big fan of wearing the uniform properly, I am more concerned with scouts being able to participate regardless of the ability to afford or obtain a uniform.  As any uniform, regardless of time period used, is still official and can be worn, I would not be concerned at all if the Webelos in any pack decides to get a little more use out of the blue uniform.  (in the packs I work with, I find that the Webelos usually look forward to changing uniforms)

Several people have responded by linking out of date versions of Webelos Inspection Sheets.  The link below is the current version. 

https://i9peu1ikn3a16vg4e45rqi17-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/510-75018-WebelosInspection_WEB-1.pdf

On 7/31/2020 at 4:36 PM, CynicalScouter said:

a scout may never, ever, EVER be penalized, punished, or denied any scouting opportunity for lack of a uniform. EVER. Even for an Eagle Board of Review, a "Class A" is not required.

Very true.  I will admit that I like seeing a unit where everyone is properly uniformed, but if I have to choose between a scout being in uniform, or being in attendance, I will take being in attendance.  I had an Assistant Cubmaster approach me at a pack event asking for me to step in as a commissioner.  His opinion was that several boys should not be allowed to take part in the first pack activity of the new scouting year (rain gutter regatta) because they were not in uniform, and being in uniform should be required to participate.  He was not happy to hear that BSA policy does not allow exclusion based on being in uniform.

As to the inspection sheet 2008 & 2015 printing stating that Webelos choose the uniform they want to wear, that is out of date.  The 2018 inspection sheet is clear that the tan shirt is the official Webelos uniform.  That being said, as has been stated before, all previous uniforms are acceptable for wear, so I would not sweat it.

On 7/31/2020 at 4:36 PM, CynicalScouter said:

a scout may never, ever, EVER be penalized, punished, or denied any scouting opportunity for lack of a uniform. EVER. Even for an Eagle Board of Review, a "Class A" is not required.

Love it!  I wonder if we can outfit our students like this when we return to class at the end of August.  We were just notified yesterday that masks are mandatory when classes resume. 

2 hours ago, SSScout said:

Then too,  one might worry about forgetting where one buried that Mason jar full of Grants or  Franklins  and Clevelands.....

Don't have to worry about that, never possessed anything above a Franklin, although I did hide one of those in an old metal 35mm metal film canister while on camp staff back in 74.  End of summer rolled around, and for the life of me, I could not remember where I hid it.  🙁🙁

41 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

#1 complaint was no showers, they had to use spigots in the campsite. The PVC shower they created fell apart while the first scout was in it. So far no problems.

😂🤣

We had a small group of scouts attend Camp Rainey Mountain in Northeast Georgia Council.  Everyone was required to take a Covid test prior to attending, so we knew that at least a week prior to camp everyone in attendance was ok.  That could have changed with someone being infected after testing, but it appeared that everything went well in that regard, on one sent home during the week after becoming ill or not being cleared during twice a day temperature checks.

There were things that were either modified or deleted from the program, such as shutting down ga-ga ball (although I am sure that the scouts would have all maintained social distancing in the pit 😁), no blob at the waterfront, no mile swim, area campfires with only a couple of units, no sharing of campsites (we had more than enough tents for individual tenting).

Programming was modified to only offer 4 blocks of instruction during the day, and there were things that were not offered that are usually available, but the scouts went from program area to program area pretty much the same as always.

Dining hall seemed to be normal operation, other than splitting into shifts to keep numbers low.  It looked to me as if we had maybe 30% capacity during meals.

Staff was tested weekly, and wore masks at all times when out of the staff area.  We were told on Friday that they had a couple of asymptomatic positive tests last week, who were isolated and then sent to the health department for retesting (they have evidently had this occur a couple of times, and after retesting found (hopefully) that they were false positives.

My scouts were happy with the trip, and everything about the camp other than the intense rain we had just about every afternoon.

8 hours ago, Jameson76 said:

That was the birth of skill awards and the "NEW" path to Eagle that would in fact not require any camping, or actually going outdoors. 

I was a young Assistant Scoutmaster when the ISP and skill awards came to be.  While things like camping, cooking, swimming and lifesaving were no longer required, the scouts in my troop, and I suspect many others, continued to earn them just because we did not change the way we operated our program.  We were big on camping and hiking regardless of time of year, and if you were active in the troop those no longer required skills were developed and honed as a result.

I did like the fact that for a while First Aid MB was required for First Class. 

17 hours ago, qwazse said:

 I haven't seen it in any of my literature or slogans on patches.

The slogan during that time period was Boypower/Manpower.  It was during that program that I transitioned from being a scout to being a scouter.  

I do have several items from back then with the slogan on them, including this old patch, a bolo tie, and more.

10 minutes ago, David CO said:

Since you are new to the forum, I should tell you that I am not in favor of admitting girls to Boy Scouts.  I do have a few suggestions though.

Don't copy the Girl Scout activities.  No smores.  No journeys.  Don't focus on all the self-esteem and girl empowerment stuff.  That's Girl Scouts.  
If they want Girl Scouts, they would join Girl Scouts.

Boy Scouting seems old fashioned because it is old fashioned.  Don't knock it.  Embrace it.  Girl Scouts changes its program every 10 minutes.  Try to avoid that.  

Try not to think of scouting as being in competition with other activities like sports and music.  Scouting encourages kids to be active in other worthwhile activities.  We are not a cult.  We don't try to isolate our scouts from their communities.  

We have Chartered Organizations.  The CO can be very helpful to your unit.  Work on building a good relationship with your CO.

Good advice, with the exception of no smores!

That combination of puffed sugar, melted onto a chunk of sugar, and sandwiched between two wafers of sugar is every Scoutmaster's favorite thing for his/her scouts to consume just before bedtime! 😂

7 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Millipede, thank you!

I guess I must be a millipede also then, since I hit 29, started over from scratch, hit 29 a second time, and am now about to hit 9 for the third time.