Hawkwin

I have yet to do this but I plan to line the back of my scout's MB sash with the same color Velcro and then let him decide what he wants on the back of it. That will allow him to change, add, remove items as he acquires them and allow him to take them off for any future memory book or Eagle display he may have.

1 hour ago, ItsBrian said:

 I don’t know how helpful to help someone like me (a youth), to learn about things that are sort of common sense.

*chuckle* If it was really common sense, then we would not have so much confusion about it here and other places - and we would have far less violations of it.

I see common violations of it all the time as it pertains to email contact in particular.

29 minutes ago, mashmaster said:

I am sorry they are making him go through this.  It could be so simple to just work with the scout to have the conference.  sigh.

Agreed, but there are life lessons here too. We can all probably point to times in our lives where we had to follow rules that absolutely made no sense - and even times when TPTB made up rules that made little sense.

While I'd rather he not learn that particular life lesson from scouting, at least he is learning from someplace.

I figure even if we lose, he will still gain a life lesson. Perseverance is part of our family motto.

41 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

Can anything of importance be gained from an extreme nervous scout? Let's not look for reasons for not learning about a scouts understanding and experience of the program. It's better to just have compassion for being nervous.

Barry 

Agreed. I think?

1 hour ago, Eagledad said:

You don't think so? Hmm, and what if the scout refuses to recite the oath or law during his BOR. Pass, fail?

What if the BOR (or EBOR) decide to start the review with the Pledge of Allegiance and the scout refuses?

 

I would want to know, and would ask the scout why they refuse?

The BOR is not a "test." As such, I am not sure what the Board really learns by asking the scout, in a situation of extreme nervousness, to recite the oath from memory. If they get it wrong, does that reveal something about their character?

So, perhaps more importantly, what does the BOR accomplish by asking memorization questions? I think instead of asking a scout to recite something, ask the scout how they lived something.

Quote

 

8.0.1.1 Not a Retest or “Examination”

Though one reason for a board of review is to help ensure the Scout did what he was supposed to do to meet the requirements, it shall become neither a retest or “examination,” nor a challenge of his knowledge. In most cases it should, instead, be a celebration of accomplishment. Remember, it is more about the journey. A badge recognizes what a young man has done toward achieving the primary goal of personal growth. See “Personal Growth Is the Primary Goal,” 2.0.0.3. It is thus more about the learning experience than it is about the specific skills learned. See also “Mechanics of Advancement: In Boy Scouting and Varsity Scouting,” 4.2.0.0.

 

Update:

My son, via email, requested a conference last week Saturday as the instructions state. I recommended he copy me and the CC on the email.

A week went by with no response. I emailed the CC (yesterday morning) indicating that it has been over a week with no response and asked if my son should be expecting a response and if the unwritten rule of conferences being only on camp outs will be enforced. It has been a little over 24 hours and I have not received a response from the CC. I intend to give it a week but I am not overly hopeful that I will get a response either at this rate.

The committee meeting is in two weeks and I see that as my next recourse - but I am not overly hopeful for that either. Any other ideas? I thought the CC was in agreement but it so far does not appear to be the case.

.....

This just developed...

I emailed this question to Ask the Expert last week and they replied just now stating that they will be answering my question on the scoutingmagazine.org site! To be posted "soon."

On 9/8/2018 at 10:30 AM, LVAllen said:

Sure, for certain definitions of "leading." I prefer Stosh's explanation of leadership (and have shamelessly stolen it when dealing with my own Scouts): leadership is taking care of your boys.

With that in mind, what kind of activities do the adults do that take care of their Scouts? Well, since the adults' goals, i.e. Scouting's Aims, are to develop physical fitness, citizenship, and character, the adults "lead" by coaching and developing the scouts. They don't lead by dictatorial fiat, because that eliminates the boys' opportunity to grow, and that's not "taking care of the boys." 

Sounds like servant leadership:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Servant_leadership

The servant-leader shares power, puts the needs of others first and helps people develop and perform as highly as possible. Servant leadership turns the power pyramid upside down which puts the customer service associates at top of pyramid; instead of the people working to serve the leader, the leader exists to serve the people. When leaders shift their mindset and serve first, they unlock purpose and ingenuity in those around them, resulting in higher performance and engaged, fulfilled employees.

I also like the Army definition: the process of influencing people by providing purpose, direction, and motivation.

On 9/8/2018 at 1:34 PM, HelpfulTracks said:

An interesting note.

I have spoken with 2 different districts about round up in the last 24 hours. The Year over Year (unit to unit) numbers of new Cubs is up significantly.

Not really surprising, since this is the first Roundup to include girls. What is mildly surprising is that if you take the girls out of the registration, the numbers of boy Cubs is also up significantly. Now, it is still early in Roundup and things could change, but it is encouraging.

EDIT: We also have several ScoutsBSA female troops organizing, a couple with 20+ youth "signed-up" and 6+ NEW adults, along with 3-4 Adults with BSA experience.

I often wonder if the phrase. "There is no such thing as bad publicity" was demonstrated here. All the press, even the bad press BSA received over the change, might have brought in a lot more awareness. I hope they do a really good new applicant survey - especially for the boy cubs. Would be insightful to see why their parents decided to join.

3 hours ago, TMSM said:

The high schoolers here have Captains practice days all the time with just the students. I don't ignore many GSS rules but having no patrol meetings without adults is one that I may just have to make a judgement call on.

I don't disagree with the sentiment expressed regarding the overly litigious increase in YPT rules but the fact that other entities have lax rules isn't really a good argument for BSA to have the same level of apathy.

All it would take is one major injury during those practices where an adult was not present (and where having one present would have aided in the speed of medical assistance) and for a parent to sue the school for knowingly allowing students to practice without adult supervision for the above policy to change - and years later - people will wax romantically about the good ole days where kids could practice without adult supervision.

Additionally, what inappropriate action that happens at one school does not directly reflect on all schools as a whole. That isn't the same with BSA. A policy violation or inappropriate contact in one troop reflects on all troops so having a higher standard makes sense.

Quote

 

FORT WORTH

The parents of a Fort Worth teenager who died on a Boy Scouts backpacking trip in West Texas in June have sued the Irving-based scouting organization, alleging that a lack of supervision and safety training led to their son’s death.

Reid Comita, 15, collapsed and died of a heatstroke June 12 while on a hike at Buffalo Trail Scout Ranch in the Davis Mountains.

...

The hike violated Boy Scouts rules, the lawsuit says, because at least two adults are required to lead hikes and all hikes must include at least four people.

 

Read more here: https://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/community/fort-worth/article171923577.html

4 hours ago, TMSM said:

In my opinion this is prep for Coed scouting. They don't want a group of say 5 boys and 1 girl to meet up in the church basement without supervision.

I don't think it takes a girl for something inappropriate to happen in such a setting.

19 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

To be fair there have been some reports of BSA leaders claiming BSA is replacing GSUSA. I’m not sure if that’s true but it did lead to our CSE to put out a response that must be careful not to cause confusion. CSE Letter on Infringements.pdf

 

Ya, I remember reading that previously and was glad for it. That being stated, in the absence of direct evidence, a CEO of a scouting organization should probably apply Hanlon's Razor:

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

GSUSA gains nothing by accusing BSA of "intentionally misleading" even if there are some valid reports of some silly leaders getting the story wrong. You impugned all scouters with such a blanket accusation. 

I just wish the leaders would tone down the rhetoric. There are more than enough girls to go around for both organizations. We don't necessarily need to compete for the same 6-10%. We should be happy for the success of each other.

21 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

Just a coincidence, but I just got this in my email:

Welcome to the first Girl Scouts of Central Indiana newsletter focused only on one topic: The competition that Girl Scouts is experiencing in our communities from the opportunity for girls to consider joining Boy Scouts.

...

We need to blanket our communities with the campaign message that “Make no mistake... If your girl wants to be a scout, make sure she is a Girl Scout” image. This will start with your help. Please see ideas below for what you can do.

I missed one of the best/worst parts in my first read:

Quote

*Talk to your neighbors, friends, children, and school staff about the intentional confusion...

So the CEO of our local council is now claiming that BSA is intentionally misleading and defrauding girls into joining Cub Scouts.

Just a coincidence, but I just got this in my email:

Welcome to the first Girl Scouts of Central Indiana newsletter focused only on one topic: The competition that Girl Scouts is experiencing in our communities from the opportunity for girls to consider joining Boy Scouts.

...

We need to blanket our communities with the campaign message that “Make no mistake... If your girl wants to be a scout, make sure she is a Girl Scout” image. This will start with your help. Please see ideas below for what you can do.

----------------

But other than that, BSA will "never compete."

Pro GSUSA, anti-how they are handling "Family Scouting."

56 minutes ago, qwazse said:

The reporter brought it up.

It isn't about who brought it up, it is about the "never compete" comment. I've since listened to the audio and it isn't clear if those words are from the interviewer or if they were actual quotes from Aceveda. The recording does not contain the question that prompted her first answer. I am going to give Aceveda the benefit of the doubt and assume it was just sloppy reporting.

15 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

@HashTagScouts did you respond in wrong topic? David CO has not posted to this topic? 

David CO has the first reply.

8 minutes ago, gblotter said:

This quote from another forum member certainly seems dismissive to me: "What I found hilarious was the statement where they said they are experts on the outdoors, then hired The North Face company to create a bunch of new outdoor MBs for them."

If arrows need to be slung at GSUSA programs and leadership, let it come from their own Scouts, parents, and leaders. When BSA folks say such things, it comes across as petty and unScoutlike. That is my point.

 

OK, sure. Your clarification makes more sense. But that isn't what you stated in your first reply. You built your own strawman when you stated:

Quote

Who ever said BSA is uniquely qualified to carry the torch of true Scouting?

You are the only one that made such a claim. Building a strawman* seems just as dismissive.

*an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.

7 minutes ago, walk in the woods said:

I only skimmed the transcript, but, I never read her directly mention the BSA.  The interviewer seems to have brought up the topic.

The edited transcripts states, "The Boy Scouts is becoming co-ed, but Acevedo says they'll never compete with the opportunities the Girl Scouts offer. "

It is possible that the interviewer simply editorialized that bit of hyperbole. It is also possible that it is part of the audio or that it was simply edited out of both. I honestly don't know.

I do know that if I was Acevedo and I didn't really make such a definitive statement about my competition, I would ask the interviewer to print a retraction. It is entirely possible that this was just sloppy and biased writing on the part of the interviewer. But, the following paragraph does seem to follow as a defense of the above claim.

1 minute ago, cocomax said:

I am part of the GSUSA myself and I see BSA changing bit by bit to be more like the GSUSA. 

Perspectives differ. My daughter is scheduled to camp with her GS troop for the very first time (my daughter has been in GS for six years) and one of the parents - not the girls - is already talking about cancelling the camp out because it might rain.

One never needs access to the mountains to enjoy the great outdoors and I doubt there are many populated places in the entire USA that are not within an hour drive of a decent hiking location.

I am very pleased to see all the changes GSUSA is making around their program to have a greater focus on STEM and the outdoors - something BSA did, or has been doing, for a much longer time. As the article states, GS was not planning to even roll out their recent changes until 2025. GSUSA is clearly moving in a better direction.

4 minutes ago, gblotter said:

Who ever said BSA is uniquely qualified to carry the torch of true Scouting?

Only you my friend, only you.

On ‎6‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 8:15 AM, RememberSchiff said:

...Acevedo says the BSA will never compete with the opportunities the Girl Scouts offer and...

 

Anyone that has to openly present a defense from the competition has already partially lost the battle.

If you really don't fear your competition, you don't mention them. Her post is covered in false bravado. She doesn't mention any other organization because she rightly doesn't view them as valid competition. The fact that she mentions BSA at all - and then with such absolutes - tells me that she in fact does fear Scouts BSA.

Pretty standard stuff here; and I am rather surprised that this otherwise very intelligent lady doesn't know this.
 

Quote

 

Don’t mention your competitors.

Even mentioning your competition is a bad idea.

When you mention your competition, you introduce an unexpected variable into the customer’s thinking.

Before you mentioned Competitor A, the customer:

• May not have known about the competition
• May not have thought about the competition

Now, your customer is wondering why you mentioned them. Are they better? Is there something that I don’t know about them? Maybe I should check them out!

When you mention the competition, you introduce cognitive friction — “any variable, website quality, or user behavior trend that is slowing down (or entirely halting) the progression of your company’s sales cycle” (definition source).

Online marketing veterans know and fear the constant reality of friction. The best way to avoid this type of competitive friction is to leave off any mention of your competitors.

 

1 hour ago, MzKelly said:

If your a Merit Badge counselor and have already completed the updated youth protection do you still have to register as a leader in your sons Boy Scout Troop?

As a leader, no, but you still need to fill out the adult application.

7.0.1.5 Registration and Reregistration

Merit badge counselors register at no fee, using the Boy Scouts of America’s standard adult registration form with position code 42.

4 hours ago, cocomax said:

then the ladies had a 15 minute discussion of if the compass app would work if they were out of cell phone service range. ( I have no idea, I do not even own a smart phone.)     

Hey! I know the answer to that one! They in fact do work without cell service. They have a built in magnetometer.

I actually learned that one during my recent IOLS class. 😉 

4 minutes ago, DeanRx said:

 

So, I question the following:

1) Its good for girls... will it be in the best interest of boys?  Does BSA even CARE about the second part of the question anymore?  Did they EVER care?

Do you really think BSA doesn't care about their current as well as future largest demographic? You really think they didn't ever care? If you want serious answers, start by asking serious questions and leave the facetious hyperbole in the trash bin of un posted musings.

4 minutes ago, DeanRx said:

2) Of the people who are PRO BSA4G in theory.... how many actually have female youth that will be signing up?  How many will be adult leaders in female units?  The news media and celebrity endorsements are nice... but they have an opinion based on what is "fair" and how they want their world view reflected in the institutions of our country.  Very few (if any) actually have daughters that will sign up.

So far, well over 10,000 have signed up. We likely will not have a good idea of the impact for 2-3 years once female troops are operational for a full year or more. Since there are already a significant number of female leaders in both cub and boy scouts, I don't think recruitment of adult leaders will be the biggest deterrent in the long run. In the short run yes simply because all positions must be staffed within a year (effectively 100% turn over) but over time, I don't see recruitment of leaders being a major problem - and if it is, then we simply won't have that many girl troops. As a supporter of BSA4G, I am OK with that. If I want it to succeed, then I need to be willing to step up to the plate and volunteer. I've already asked the mother of a new AOL gril to be my ADL so that I have adequate YPT coverage. If they want their daughter to be in scouts, then someone will have to step up.

4 minutes ago, DeanRx said:

3) How many boys are gunning Eagle right now in an attempt to bolt? 

No way to know but I doubt it is wide spread. I've yet to hear a single boy in my son's troop even bring up the topic. We will have a better sense of this potential problem next summer once girl troops are attending summer camp with boy troops. The only "forced" interaction they may have prior would be spring camporees or MB Workshops.

4 minutes ago, DeanRx said:

Once the LDS dust settles, what will the net loss / gain in membership be?  Once those cute little gals in cubbies cross over from co-ed cub units into Troops after Web II, how many of them (or their parents) do you think are going to be OK with "separate, but equal" troops?  Not many, I would venture to guess.  Full integrated co-ed troops will be the norm within 5 years.  I'm not sure this wasn't the intent of national all along.

Again, no idea and it is useless speculation right now. As a supporter of BSA4G, I tend to prefer gender exclusivity. I tend to like the idea, for both my son and my daughter, that if they run for SPL, they would only face off against someone of the same gender. Now, I won't complain if troops end up like packs with single gender patrols but I think both genders will have greater opportunities if they keep separate PoR structures. Nothing will make up for the departure of LDS and I have my doubts that we will be able to successfully measure the impact of including girls due to the much larger impact of losing LDS.

4 minutes ago, DeanRx said:

So yes, a LOT of long time scouters are dismayed, some a outright pissed off.  Because, it was supposed to be ABOUT THE BOYS.  Can we say that is true anymore?  If it is not, then BSA has already morphed into something it has never been, nor was intended to be.  Whether the phoenix rises from the ash of the old BSA to become the premium outdoor / youth led program for all youth remains to be seen.

There is no way to know which position has the greatest amount of support among "long time scouters" so again it is useless to speculate. Additionally, I don't know if it even should matter that much. Scouting is for the youth. It isn't for scouters. We either adapt or we move on. We are all "conditional scouters" after all. For some of us, the changing conditions increase our commitment instead of lessening such.

4 minutes ago, DeanRx said:

I am seriously concerned for the wellbeing of the organization (whatever form it takes in the next decade).  Me voicing my concerns about that does NOT make me a conditional scouter or unscoutlike in the least.

We are all conditional scouters. We all have our breaking points.

Progress!

From the CC:

Quote

 

Troop Handbook and Policies about Scoutmaster Conferences and Board of Reviews:

2.5     Requesting a Scoutmaster Conference

a.  For the ranks of Scout, Tenderfoot, Second Class, and First Class:

(1)  The Scout requests a Scoutmaster Conference from the Scoutmaster or any Assistant Scoutmaster prior to the start of the meeting.

 

b.  For the ranks of Star, Life and Eagle Palms:

(1)  The Scout requests a Scoutmaster Conference by emailing the Scoutmaster at least one week in advance.

 

2.6    Requesting a Board of Review

a.  For the ranks of Scout, Tenderfoot, Second Class, and First Class:

(1)  The Scout signs the Board of Review sign-in sheet prior to the start of the meeting.

(2)  The Board of Review will normally occur during the meeting.

 

b.  For the ranks of Star, Life and Eagle Palms:

(1)  The Scout signs the Board of Review sign-in sheet prior to the start of the meeting and he must notify the Advancement Chair or Advancement Co-Chair.

(2)  The Scout will be notified when the Board of Review will occur.

 

1 hour ago, walk in the woods said:

I've helped plan a lot of Fall Camporees for a fairly small district.  If we ruled every homecoming weekend and school break off limits, there would be no camporee.

Nah, every other local district holds their camporee in either early or late October. Ours is the only one that does it this weekend (and it isn't as if we lack the camp ground space).

Last year, my son went to the Camporee with another district and another troop simply so he would not miss out on the experience.

54 minutes ago, qwazse said:

That's a poor reason IMHO. (See note about missed opportunities above.)

I'd rather have the conference, find out the scout will be away for a couple months, help him think through what his next MB should be, get him that blue card, and encourage him to accept a PoR when he gets back and commit time to it.

So @Hawkwin, unless he was really creative at managing a troop from a distance, your scout might get his oval for this coming rank sooner, but would probably not advance to the one after that any more quickly in my troop. (At the last committee meeting this was a discussion, and I made it pretty clear that giving a scout a break from a position he couldn't fulfill was always in the offering.) So, same net result, but I think our approach gets to the grit of what a boy needs to experience in terms of leadership development.

He isn't away for a couple of months. We simply have a long weekend planned for our annual hike to Mt. LeConte in Gatlinburg in September when the Troop is camping and we are taking a family cruise over fall break in October when the Fall camporee is scheduled (another bone of contention at the district level - don't schedule weekend camping the first weekend of school vacation). He won't be missing out on any of his responsibilities in his PoR as he is a Den Chief.

57 minutes ago, MattR said:

it's not a troop position so you wouldn't see it. The UC is supplied by the district.

Thanks, our District Website lists only an email address with no name. Our Council Page for our district doesn't even list the position.

I'd try the District Commissioner as needed. Thanks.