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Hawkwin

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Posts posted by Hawkwin

  1. 9 hours ago, Liz said:

    My daughter has lost her Bear slide. Any ideas of homemade slides she could make to replace it? I don't want to buy her another one - we're getting pretty close to Webelos. 

    She is pretty crafty. I welcome a variety of suggestions with a range of skill levels, but prefer something that doesn't involve power tools just because I'd like her to make it herself. Then again, if it's a great suggestion that involves power tools we can probably still make it happen. 

    Surely mine isn't the only cub who has lost a slide by this point in the Scouting year. ;) 

    Ha! My Webelos daughter lost three in half a year.

    When we finally find a troop (don't ask), I will encourage her to make something new as well.

    • Upvote 1
  2. 59 minutes ago, perdidochas said:

     

    We never had any problems with that.  We had a binder with health forms in it.  Nobody ever had privacy concerns.  I think the main thing is the parents wanted their kids problems to be known to the adult leaders.  

    It isn't about the scouts, it is about the parents (and siblings) that now must also complete the forms and turn them in. I can see where a parent might be hesitant to turn over their medical information to another adult just for attending a camp out.

  3. I was reading a question about health forms on scoutingmagazine.org forums. Apparently, my.scouting.org states that all individuals (parents, scouts, and siblings) that attend or otherwise participate in scouting events must complete Part A and Part B of the health form.

    I was surprised by this but after a bit of thought, it makes sense from a liability perspective; but then I wondered about privacy rules regarding such. I could see where some parents may be uncomfortable disclosing some health information to other adults that are not medical professionals. And of course, some parents might not be convinced that such documents would be kept private (and I don't see any disclosure in the document that claims it would be kept private or otherwise provides recourse to the adult if it isn't).

    How to handle such? How does your troop or pack handle such? I might have a future as a CC or a ASM/SM and I'd rather know how to handle this possibility now they have to deal with it in the moment.

  4. 15 hours ago, DuctTape said:

    no scout should assume they will be recommended by the SM and thus there is no obligation from the SM to tell all the scouts ahead of time who isn't recommended. 

    Why should a scout NOT expect the SM to inform them that they will not receive the SMs recommendation? You don't find it odd that a scout would not learn of their lack of recommendation until the election? No one wants to wait until election time to learn that they were not nominated but otherwise qualified. That has to be a terrible feeling considering the fact that the ONLY reason they didn't get nominated was some perceived but otherwise unknown and undefined deficiency determined by the SM. Shouldn't that conversation happen in advance?

    That would seem to be a critical part of any SM conference or generally open lines of communication - ESPECIALLY in cases where some 1st class scouts might be on the ballot and others were not. A scout shouldn't have to go to the SM and ask "why" after the fact.

    • Like 1
  5. 1 hour ago, Eagledad said:

    And you would be wrong.

    Based on what, your anecdotal data or do you have something more substantial than personal experience that you can point to? Can you point to actual data that reflects that nationally, Wolves have a better than 20% recruitment growth rate of new scouts?

    1 hour ago, Eagledad said:

    we changed our program so that the Tiger Dens only had to have two meetings a month. They could meet anywhere they wanted and one of the two could be the pack meeting. We added a very experienced den leader who manage the parents with the intention of taking as little of their time a possible.

    So, in other words, you made changes locally to make your program successful. Does nationals get the credit for that just like they do the blame?

  6. 23 minutes ago, TMSM said:

    This is not an "arbitrary" rule - that would mean it was random or based on personal whim

    How is it not personal whim of the SM if they did not discuss such with the impacted scouts?

    If it isn't based on the quality and maturity of the scout, then how should one describe such a decision other than personal? The rules allow for such scouts to be on the ballot but the SM is deciding to prohibit them based on?

    27 minutes ago, TMSM said:

    Is there a rush to be in OA at age 12?

    What suggests it is a rush for a scout to pursue something for which they are otherwise qualified? What you call rush, I call "meets the criteria."

    Perhaps the better question, and one the SM should be able to answer, is why the necessity to delay?

  7. 37 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

    The issue is retaining members, their (BSA Dallas) solution is to make the pool bigger, not solve or work on retaining members.

    Retention is not the same thing as recruitment. In fact, I think retention is a lot more reflective of the unit and not BSA as a whole. If your pack can't keep their Lions and Tigers, is that really the fault of BSA Dallas? The rest of your paragraph goes on to list complaints that are local, not national. Nothing about the first rank requires your first meeting to be a boring one - or even advancement focused.

    Additionally, as it pertains to growing market share for a business (or member org), it is not a wise decision to ignore a huge segment of potential customers and Lions and Tigers are it. I doubt any pack would have a lot of success if they focused on recruiting just Wolves and higher. In fact, I would bet that most packs grow their Wolf dens by less than 20% YOY.

    • Upvote 1
  8. 17 hours ago, fred8033 said:

    If you did not have Lion and Tiger ranks, troops would be much more healthy.

    • You would only need 72 cub scouts for a health troop size with a 85% retention
    • You would only need 118 cub scouts for a health troop size with a 75% retention

    My assumption is the BSA learned that if you don't engage them while they are in K or 1st grade, you can easily lose them to other activities and commitments.

    With so many sports now starting in K and 1st grade (soccer and even wrestling come to mind), I think BSA has little choice to offer options at the ages when families are making these commitments.

    • Upvote 1
  9. I heard the same program but I was left with the impression that instead of yelling, they think we should be lying to our kids. Don't go in the ocean because a monster will get you? Don't go outside because the northern lights will rip your head off?

    Such storytelling might work for very young kids (e.g. the ages where Easter Bunny and Santa still exist) but I'd rather not create a myth in order to get a kid/scout to obey. When they learn the truth, then we don't look trustworthy (and we clearly did not trust them enough to be honest to them).

  10. 34 minutes ago, skeptic said:

    Please, can we simply move on.  This will never go away for those of us closest to it,

    Brand new to me so I had no idea that it was such a widely known and infamous situation.

    After rereading the rules, it is apparently possible and within the rules if the scout crossed over shortly after turning 10 and earning AOL. I assumed (and perhaps it was an older rule) that a scout had to be 10 1/2 with AOL to cross over.

     

  11. 29 minutes ago, roljers said:

     I saw someone became an Eagle at age 11,

    When was this? Care to elaborate? Considering the fact that such a person would violate not only the Eagle requirements but many/most of the previous rank requirements, I have to wonder not only about that troop but also the district that allowed such to proceed. Heck, the council would likely have to be complicit too.

  12. On ‎2‎/‎24‎/‎2019 at 10:11 AM, PARENTinSCOUT said:

    A question to you: if the past and possible ongoing sex abuse problem within BSA which threatens the viability of the scouting movement is not sufficient to convince the organization to have a prudent non-retaliation statement in its Youth Protection Policy, then what will compel it to do so, except with outside pressure?

    A petition on change.org is what I am thinking is needed to bring about this very small but essential improvement in YPP.

    As someone that supports your position, I am of the opinion that the ONE SURE THING that is likely to INCREASE retaliation is to go out and create a public petition.

    There are many ways to discuss this internally before you make it subject to the evening news.

    When I was having a problem with my son's SM, I sent an inquiry to Ask The Expert via Scouting Magazine. You might try doing the same. You might also simply consider calling Nationals and speaking to someone of authority. YPT is a national policy, not a council one so it might make more sense to first address this at a higher level.

    In the end, you also need to be aware and accepting of the fact that by the time you are successful with any change, it might be too late to help with your particular situation. Might end up having to be happy with the idea that no one else will have to experience what you did without protection(s).

     

  13. 15 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

     

    If the DE wanted to dismiss this leader they could have. Retaliation is already not allowed... see file below. 

    https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/controller/BSA_Whistle_Blower_Policy.pdf

    This appears to only relate to employees:

    "These procedures relate to employee complaints."

    If this does cover volunteers and parents, then it should probably be referenced in the YPT.

     

    15 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

    I don’t see a need for more policies in the BSA.  

    Perhaps, but then a policy against retaliation only has value if parents and volunteers know of its existence.

  14. 6 minutes ago, NealOnWheels said:

    Do you really think a Scouter willing to violate a youth protection policy would be likely to comply with another policy?

    Possibly. Not all YPT violations are intentional or willful. Good intentions but otherwise ignorance of the rules is just as likely a reason. My son's previous SM was violating the rules for advancement (adding requirements) and he thought he was clearly within the rules of GtoA - until I had to show him otherwise. He was less than happy about the fact that I escalated it to the district and eventually nationals because his continued unwillingness to budge - it took someone else to tell him he was wrong. I think the additional risk of him being made persona non grata by BSA if he had retaliated would most definitely have kept him from such actions for me reporting the incident. Thankfully in my case, that was not an issue but it easily could have been - and I have no protection in such a situation.

  15. 25 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

    I'm sure you've heard of defamation of character and false accusations. More common in this culture than we would like to admit.  

    Barry

    Personal liability insurance doesn't protect the insured from a false accusation or being defamed.

    I get the sense that you are confused as to the protected party as it pertains to such insurance. If I have an excess liability policy that includes a clause for defamation, then that protection is for me if I defame someone else unknowingly or unwittingly (intentional defamation is excluded). It does nothing to protect me from being a victim of such. If the OP is being defamed, then additional insurance won't be a solution.

    Regardless, BSA should have a policy as it pertains to protecting whistleblowers from retaliation.

    • Upvote 2
  16. For all in this thread, remember not all GSUSA units are the same just like not all troops are the same. The poor behavior of one troop or one SU is not necessarily indicative of the whole.

    While I have also seen examples of poor behavior by GSUSA units, let us not assume they represent the whole in the same manner they appear to be assuming a few BSA units that are recruiting incorrectly represent the whole.

    • Like 1
  17. 16 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

    All the more reason to purchase personal liability insurance. 

    Barry

    I have personal liability insurance and I am pretty sure it would not protect me from retaliation. If, for example, a scouter decides to remove me from the committee or exclude me from troop communications, there is no personal liability created by that action that insurance would offset. If a scouter goes so far as to tell me that my scout is no longer welcome in the troop, again, there is nothing that personal liability insurance would protect.

    BSA needs a policy that does not allow scouters or troops to retaliate when a person reports violations of BSA policy.

    And, if this council did indeed have to step in to stop an incident of hazing, corporal punishment, and other policy violations, those scouters in charge should probably have been at least suspended as well as removed from their leadership roles. Violations of YPT and all that.

  18. 3 hours ago, David CO said:

    People have different interpretations of the term corporal punishment. 

    Facts entered into evidence:

    "The Council swiftly stopped the hazing, corporal punishment and inappropriate advancement procedures"

    The Council clearly indicates that something was wrong. The interpretation really isn't in question.

     

    3 hours ago, David CO said:

    Even if BSA had a retaliation rule, it might not apply to this situation.

    So some retaliation is warranted? Your position is that a scouter is warranted in taking negative action toward a parent if that parent didn't follow some undefined procedure in trying to fix a hazing incident? What is more important, that we stopped a hazing incident that could have lead to suicide or that a parent didn't follow the chain of command?

    The point of the OP appears to be rather clear. Regardless if you think a scouter might be justified in retaliation in some circumstances (:blink:), BSA doesn't appear to have a policy in place that protects whistleblowers and that is a significant problem.

    • Upvote 1
  19. 30 minutes ago, BobWhiteVA said:

    we use Troopwebhost for calendar and communications, it looks like with the new scoutbook, we can export from Scoutbook into TWH so scouts can see advancements as well.

    Unless something has changed, scouts should be able to see their advancement in Scoutbook too - no need to export to TWH.

  20. On ‎2‎/‎1‎/‎2019 at 6:07 PM, PACAN said:

    And here we go. TV bit tonight about a girl troop who were inducted into Scouts BSA in the dark and all had already earned their Scout Badge. All before they went to school. The one girl was a teenager so clearly wasn't a Cub.  Not sure how the Cyber Chip could be earned in the dark. 

    The rules allow for a scout to display skills learned prior to joining a troop so a well organized group of scouts and scouters may have completed the Cyber Chip before the troop became official.

    "...simply demonstrate your knowledge or skills to your Scoutmaster or other designated leader after joining the troop."

     

    Many new scouts achieve Scout rank at their first scout meeting.

  21. 2 hours ago, mashmaster said:

    It just seems to be getting a little wearing at least in our council that they are promoting any time a female troop meets on the web site, facebook.....   I just want to get back to scouting for all and talk about hiking, camping, and all the other fun scouting activities.

    I think it is just getting started.

    Little cubs with ponytails is one thing, having young female adults in tan uniforms leading troops in public and at various scouting events will likely be another - and draw more attention and media.

    The next two years will be full of various "firsts."

  22. On 1/25/2019 at 5:54 PM, NJCubScouter said:

    But the BSA has won trademark infringement cases that only involved "Scout" (as opposed to "Boy Scout"), which implies that the courts must have found "Scout" is NOT generic.  I do not know of any change in the last several years, or decades, that would produce a different result now that the BSA is on the other side of a lawsuit.

    Per the NPR story, it doesn't seem to matter if you won in the past. Each time there is a new case, you run the risk of THAT court deeming it generic. Your status as the defendant or the plaintiff probably doesn't matter.

    DuPont probably won every defense of their copyright for Cellophane; until they didn't.

  23. Interesting story on NPR this week that made me think about this situation. The "Chose Your Own Adventure" publishing company is suing Netflix for copyright infringement because they use such in one of their shows. The NPR story indicated that the publisher is taking a risk in that the courts may decide that "chose your own adventure" has become generic and that they might actually commit "Genericide."

    The GSUSA runs the risk that the court could say that the term "scout" is generic and as such, no one may copyright it.

    From NPR:

    https://www.npr.org/2019/01/24/688110253/adventure-series-book-publisher-sues-netflix-over-trademark

    The word zipper was originally a trademark for a toothed closure. But people started using the word zipper for any toothed closure, and that trademark became worthless. It became generic.

    Aspirin, thermos, escalator - just a few onetime trademarks that have succumbed to genericide.

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