Hawkwin

23 minutes ago, HashTagScouts said:

I think would need to be someone that is "relatable" to Scouts. I do think you are on the right track there.

Chris Pratt ... since he hit fame as Captain America.  .

*cough* Wrong Avenger *cough*

Try Star Lord 😎

22 minutes ago, CalicoPenn said:

I think someone like Paul Sereno,

Why settle for a fake adventurer when you can have a real adventurer?

Who? Seriously. I had to google him.

Other than being a field paleontologist, I don't see how his profession would be a strong advocate for Scouts. Does he sleep in a tent? Does he build fires without matches?

There is a long list of Eagle celebrities. One of them might be a better fit:

https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2018/02/08/bsa-turning-108-heres-list-108-famous-former-scouts/

I see quite a few on that list that would bring a lot of media attention as well as new applicants. Chris Pratt would be at or near the top of that list.

@lakes_stu Absolutely! I have two Webelos girls that would welcome such contact.

35 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

For the boys side, get the SPL Handbook and Patrol Leader Handbook.

 

Thank you. This illustrates part of my frustration. My son was a Patrol Leader and I was not even aware that such a handbook existed and I am quite confident that one was never provided to him.

Something like this for Denners would be a nice touch. I know my son, now a Den Chief, had to complete some training too.

Quote

set up the adults camp site 100 yards away from the Patrol camp sites and wait for them to tell you what to do.

Unfortunately, we both know it is a lot more complex than simply what to do on camp outs. Things like communication - that the scout should contact scouters and not the parent contacting the scouters. I know our troop often sends out email about service events and all parents are copied on the email. It is (and has been) very easy for me to simply sign up my son for some service event but it really should be him. There are a myriad of little things like that.

Again, our SM educated the parents on this topic (at least those parents that came to the meeting) but I feel like I should be educating the parents as a Webelos leader as to how scouts are different than cubs and how parents will need to take a step back. This is education that should happen before a cub crosses over.

37 minutes ago, AltadenaCraig said:

Queue Clarke Green at Scoutmastercg.com

https://scoutmastercg.com/category/patrol-method/

Thanks, I've been to his site before and the stuff there is useful, just not in a consolidated format that I would prefer.

3 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

As for current BSA materials, they are non-existant. To get a true understanding of the Patrol Method, you need to go back to pre-1972, William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt materials to get a glimpse of what Scouting is suppose to be like.

Has no enterprising Scouter tried to create an unofficial modern day document that details the patrol method?

I've seen some of those Hillcourt materials but only pages at a time. Was there a single book where all of this was once written? Is there a book I can buy that covers it now? Seems like good required reading (for scouts and scouters) if so.

1 hour ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

And as someone mentioned in another thread, the influx of new Scouters will be a major problem. Boy Scouts and Cub Scouts are two completely separate programs, with separate methods.  Cub Scout Leaders must "unlearn what you have learned" because they are not in charge anymore, the Scouts are. For the last 3 years, I have seen parents push and push to make Boy Scouts more like Cub Scouts. I see it happening with my troop right now.

This was posted on a different thread but I didn't want to create an in-thread tangent.

I've been a cub scout committee member and a popcorn kernel for my son's pack. When he crossed over, I did not take an active role in the troop (I needed a break from 3 years as a popcorn kernel - I ran it like a year-round position). Even though my son's SM did a good job of trying to teach the parents how boy scouts was different from cub scouts, I still didn't get it for many months later and much through my own self-education. I would imagine that the vast majority of parents (especially those not active in any leadership capacity) never really get it at all.

As a Webelos Den Leader, I don't recall any of my official training that focuses on transitioning from scouter to scout led. I know that there are some tasks that ask the scouts to perform as a patrol but those are exceptionally limited. For example, on requirement #3 of Scouting Adventure (AOL requirement), the Leader Guide doesn't even tell the leader what is different about a patrol vs a den. The Guide assumes that the reader already knows - and I don't imagine very many Webelos den leaders know the difference if they have not been a scout before. My son's Den Leader certainly didn't since she is a woman and could not have been a scout prior. If she spent any time focusing in how a patrol is different than a den, I certainly don't recall such.

If I had no prior experience with Boy Scouts, I would have no idea as a Web Den Leader that patrols should be any significantly different than dens.

Seems like if we really want scouts to be scout-led, we need to have a much more structured (and printed) guide to what that should look like. If such already exists, please link it to this thread.

Thanks @jjlash I will take a look at the courses to see. All I know is that the district level training coord told me that I would get credit for both - and yes, I NEED BALOO as I will be both leading and taking part in various Cub Scout outdoor activities over the next year. I don't actually need IOLS.

49 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

CC is largely hand off. I know there is some history for it, but do not it. A MC and ASM who know the history want to keep it that way.

While I have looked at other troops, my sons are not interested at the moment in changing. Oldest is seeing the challenges of dealing with the adults and situation as a learning experience. However he did say if the situation gets to a point he cannot stand, he will transfer. Middle son just got elected PL, so he is being optimistic and trying to change from within. But he too said if he starts getting bored, he will go. Wife commented that she hopes they transfer before youngest crosses over in Dec- Jan.

Would this be a situation in which the district could provide some assistance? I have no idea and am just asking.

Thanks, I got confirmation over the weekend that if I take the IOLS combined course, I will also get credit for BALOO as long as I have completed the online prework. I believe I need BALOO as a Web Den Leader and since I wont be such for long, IOLS should give more information I can use in the future.

Thanks everyone. I think I i will make the little extra effort and take the combined course. It seems better organized than my local course any way since I can't seem to get an emailed response from the training coordinator from our local training.

Regardless of the severity of what actually may have been said, I find that lack of investigation prior to the phone call and the letter being sent to be disturbing. Feels like a guilty until proven innocent action on behalf of TPTB.

Who called you, someone from the troop or the council? If it was the troop, I would want to know just who made this decision. Why were you, as a parent, not invited to that discussion - was this at a committee meeting? I also think I would be calling my council to complain if this originated at the troop level.

Is your scout being told to cease with the Troop or cease with BSA?

The time commitments you mention are interesting. The local BALOO starts at 6 PM and ends at noon the following day. The IOLS & BALOO event starts at noon and ends at noon the following day. Both end up being overnight.

I have no current plans to be an ASM/SM in the near future but I thought it might be nice to still have the training under my belt in case that changes in future years. I would imagine that it is once and done - that it never expires?

Currently, I am a Webelos/AOL Den Leader and I am not sure what I will be asked to do come 2019.

I have the opportunity to take just BALOO (locally) or both IOLS and BALOO on the same weekend (but a bit of a drive away from home).

1. How do the courses differ?

2. Does BALOO satisfy the same requirements for IOLS (e.g. Scoutmaster required) or would a BALOO-trained leader also need to take IOLS if they want to be a Scoutmaster in the future?

I've so far been unable to tell just what is different about the two courses and some districts offer them at the same event but my district appears to only be offering BALOO this summer. Any other feedback or insight you have is welcome.

11 minutes ago, FireStone said:

Agreed. I'm not sure of the legalities of this kind of thing, but at the very least, spreading mesleading (or downright false) information about your competitors is entirely un-Scoutlike. 

And further credit to how BSA responded. I know I would have personally called out the Chairman of the Board of Trail Life for his falsehoods and BSA instead took the high road.The damage to BSA is done and a press release clarifying the truth does not undo the misleading narrative.

Ya, I'll pass. You got me on that one.

3 hours ago, walk in the woods said:

apparently it's all Trail Life's fault now,

Well, that was readily apparent from day 1 as it was the Chairman of the Board for Trail Life that was trying to advance this false narrative. I am rather disappointed that this organization that portrays itself as more Christian than BSA would be so intentionally dishonest and misleading.

17 minutes ago, gblotter said:

Show me the photo of you wearing that red beret.

How about Maroon?

Real men wear berets.

25 minutes ago, Gwaihir said:

...earning the badge really doesn't mean a thing. 

I don't think you believe that. Even with an increase in so-called paper Eagles, only something like 2% of all scouts make Eagle.

Assuming it is Ellie:

From 2015:

http://www.wacotrib.com/waco_today_magazine/waco-couple-leads-boy-scout-troop-by-example/article_ca663709-2685-5ce1-b722-cb7ca4eadf2b.html

4 minutes ago, David CO said:

Are we really?

 

Per G2SS, yes.

Adult leaders and youth members share the responsibility for the safety of all participants in the program, including adherence to Youth Protection and health and safety policies. • Adult leaders are responsible for monitoring behavior and intervening when necessary. • Physical violence, sexual activity, emotional abuse, spiritual abuse, unauthorized weapons, hazing, discrimination, harassment, initiation rites, bullying, cyberbullying, theft, verbal insults, drugs, alcohol, and pornography have no place in the Scouting program and may result in revocation of membership.

...

Program Requirements

The buddy system should be used.

The use of smartphones, cameras, mirrors, drones, etc., in places or situations where privacy is expected is prohibited.

All aspects of the Scouting program are open to observation by parents and leaders.

The BSA does not recognize any secret organizations as part of its program.

Hazing and initiations are prohibited and have no part during any Scouting activity.

All forms of bullying and harassment including verbal, physical, and cyberbullying are prohibited.

Inappropriate public displays of affection are prohibited.

Sexual activity is prohibited.

Appropriate attire is required for all activities.

Reporting Requirements

Adult leaders and youth members have a responsibility to recognize, respond to, and report Youth Protection violations and abuse.

20 minutes ago, Gwaihir said:

...................

it's the only question I've been asking, and one I think is worth discussion. 

I don't see an immediate concern. As it currently stands, many CO's and Troops have rules more restrictive than BSA, yet those troops still go to regional and national scouting events.

Just because our Scouts go to an event that has less restrictions on some topics doesn't mean we as scouters have to lessen our standards of conduct. In other words, we are still well within our right to tell our scouts that it is a violation to engage in such behavior even if the WOSM makes condoms available upon request. I would assume many of us have schools and other organizations within our communities that also would provide such for free upon request but we don't (necessarily) pull our kids from such because the school or community might have less restrictions on behavior than we do.

If the WOSM had a different and lower standard is it pertains to Safe Swim Defense, I would certainly hope our scouters would still tell our scouts that they are prohibited from swimming unless they passed OUR standards. Doesn't mean we would tell WOSM to get lost for not applying the standards of the home country. If that was the case, that every host country could force the WOSM to create new rules every four years based on the social norms of the host country, then the Jamboree would only ever be in the most socially liberal countries.

Another piece from the other side of the pond:

http://members.scouts.org.uk/documents/EcommsDocs/MyBodyMyChoice.pdf

I find the contrast between the country that birthed scouting and our own on this topic to be interesting. I went looking and found the following:

http://members.scouts.org.uk/supportresources/search/?cat=299,303,412

Not only is it permitted for scouters to discuss this topic, it appears it is encouraged.

One snip:

If you are asked about contraceptive methods or other sexual health matters, you should try to provide relevant information. This information could include the details of local contraceptive services and the location of local sexual health clinics. If asked, you should try to provide details of local emergency contraception provision, which you can obtain from the local Teenage Pregnancy Coordinator.

7 minutes ago, walk in the woods said:

Not trying to troll here, just a question.  At my last Commissioner's meeting our DE said the minimum number of girls a pack can register is 5.  I pressed him a bit and he confirmed that if we don't have 5 girls to sign up then we have to sign up 0.  Is that not what you're being told?  Just curious if it's a council specific thing.

I thought I answered a similar question in this thread but could not find it; must have been asked and answered in a related thread. To briefly paraphrase what I wrote there, "I have no idea."

I am a father (previous inactive scouter*) that went looking for an opportunity for his daughter and in the course of my endeavors, we ended up in a different county, a different district, and I ended up as a freshly minted Den Leader. The requirements the Packs, Districts, or Councils were supposed to follow were and continue to be above my pay grade. I've been focused on simply trying to provide the best opportunity I can for my scout(s).  It certainly was not my decision to proceed with a Den of 1 back in March and I would have loved to have more.

*Three years as my son's "Popcorn Kernel" is the extent of my prior scouter experience - but we did crush it when I lead the effort.