swilliams

2 hours ago, mrjohns2 said:

It hasn’t been mandated. The whole point of the IA2 was to allow units like yours to keep doing what was worked for them. Scoutbook works well for us, but if something is working well for you, no reason to stop. 

Thanks.  That's what I figured.

27 minutes ago, TAHAWK said:

Not all students have access to the Internet.  TV says 2/3 of Cleveland Public Schools students do not.  Not all of Virginia is affluent by any standard.

We have property in a very rural, relatively poor area of PA.  Even they are doing online learning, for the most part.  They have paper packets that are handed out at the beginning of the week for the kids who don't have internet, but I have no clue how they're handling the instruction part.  I'll have to ask my friends out there.  We didn't go out there when this all started because only internet available to us is through satellite dish, or phone lines.  DSL wasn't going to be able to handle three kids using Zoom and a mother-in-law who can't seem to understand the directions to NOT use the wifi when we're trying to stream something!

I did a search, but didn't see any info on this.  Our District Advancement Chair told us that BSA is mandating the move to Scoutbook, and suggests that we continue to use Troopmaster (our current platform) until we're certain all the Scoutbook files are correct.  In looking for information on how to transfer files in the easiest manner, I haven't found anything from National saying we have to use Scoutbook, other than to record advancement.  Right now, after each COH, I upload a file from Troopmaster to Scoutbook via Internet Advancement 2.0, so that shows the advancement for our scouts.

Has anyone else heard about this mandate?  I think maybe the District Advancement person is mistaken, but am looking for more info before questioning her about it.

On 4/19/2020 at 7:22 AM, scoutldr said:

Our Governor (VA) has ordered a shutdown until June 10th.  They are still debating how to make up the lost school year...going to school all summer is on the table.  

Wow, I thought all schools were doing online learning.  My kids would stage a revolt if we had to do summer school.

On 4/14/2020 at 12:35 AM, karunamom3 said:

The early bird deadline is now May 1 for PPC. It will be really tough for us to get our scouts to go I fear. It is the last thing on many people's minds. 

My boys can't wait, and will be devastated if there's no camp this summer.  With Gov. Wolf (PA) being part of the northeast group talking about re-openings, if NJ summer camps are closed, you can bet PA scout camps will be closed, too.

I'm not concerned about sending my boys, should camp still be an option.

Our council, Patriots' Path, is planning on moving forward as of now.  The early bird deadline is April 24th.  For the first time ever, the camps will be offering 100% refunds, right up until the day camp starts.  I believe the first week of camp is July 5th.

22 hours ago, qwazse said:

I was thinking about that for my orienteering club. Instead of punching in. Take a selfie of yourself with the control.

I was thinking about having a letter at each checkpoint that spells out a word when finished.  My youngest (12) doesn't have a cell phone yet, along with one other scout.  I suppose he could borrow one. 

It would be a lot more fun (I would think), for them to share their selfies.  Again, on a secure site.  It might also give us some photos to share in an iMovie - or something - if we can't have a regular COH with slideshow.

On 3/16/2020 at 5:27 PM, qwazse said:

Resurrecting this discussion. So, Bryan's article has discussed the "how to" for BoR's. And, I'm sure there are some favorite services not mentioned. But also @FireStone raised the question of how to make it work for other scout/scouter meetings?

More importantly, can anyone move us from "how to" to "how to make it fun?"

I'm looking for similar suggestions!!

I've done a few Zoom meetings, and son is currently doing an online merit badge session.  Here's what I've found so far:

Zoom (and Skype, etc.) have a small lag time, and it's harder to read body language, so there's a lot of talking over each other, then stops and starts.  It's hard to accomplish anything in a decent amount of time.  I don't see this ever working well for den or patrol meetings, but not sure there's any other option.

The merit badge session is a webinar.  The counselor is live on the top of the screen, and he has a PowerPoint going on below him.  There's a moderator off screen, but whom you can hear.  She is watching the chat/question box.  With 800 scouts participating, she is only relaying questions that are arising frequently, and that's the only interaction the scout has with the counselor.  They provide links for reference - to the worksheet, webinar content to review, and the merit badge pamphlet, but there's no way they can answer 800 questions, whether it's through the chat or email.

I have a couple ideas for getting scouts outside and doing something fun.  Will let you know if I'm able to get them approved and we can start doing them.  One is an orienteering treasure hunt.  One is a fire-starting contest where the scouts would take video and post to a secure site, like our troop's Shutterfly.  Couple more ideas not really fleshed out yet, but I'm trying!

On 3/23/2020 at 10:11 PM, Treflienne said:

Looking on the bright side of things,  I am trying to encourage my scouts to take initiative on merit badge work,  and find things they are interested in doing rather independently while at home.   Maybe we can get away from a "merit badge class" mindset - which is unfortunately the mindset of the boys' troop to which we are linked.   Even if a scout cannot complete all the steps of a particular merit badge class, there are a lot of steps of a lot of badges that can be done quite well at home, and there is a lot of "discuss" interaction with a merit badge counselor that can be done by  telephone (or by whatever one's preferred electronic communication system is).

I'm working on the hiking merit badge with one son.  It was started with a group of scouts from the troop, but can't be finished together at this point.  That's going okay, and we (I was in as a second adult and advancement chair, much to my son's dismay, lol)  just finished up a Zoom meeting with the counselor for all the boys that began the badge.  That was okay, with only six scouts and the counselor.  But the same son also started an online merit badge class with Central Florida Council...

My impressions of that are varied.  This particular one is Sustainability, and son needs a couple Eagle-required badges.  I wanted to watch along with him to see what kind of content they offered and whether this would be an effective way to host 'meetings'.  So, on the one hand, it's great they're stepping up and offering something for scouts.  On the other, sitting through almost two hours, as well-prepped as it was, with a PowerPoint presentation and videos, wasn't fun or exciting or even very engaging.  I started getting the 'do I have to watch this' after only fifteen minutes, and he still has three two-hour sessions to go, plus the 30 day family portion of the merit badge.

I don't see this being any kind of long-term solution.  Or even more than a one week novelty.  Online classes and meetings, imho, are not going to be enough to keep scouts scouting.  I'm just hoping most families don't drop by the wayside before this is all behind us. 

No way!  I just got "Milf Man Love to Fart Funny Novelty sweatshirt". 🤣  What have you all done??!!

Edit: also shoes, web builders, and mountain biking water bottles, so I feel a little better now.

Our schools are closed now. Because our Troop meets at the school, we’re automatically canceled. Our committee meeting was canceled as well, so I’m anticipating a lot of email upcoming. 

Our Crew held our last leaders’ meeting last night. We have tentative plans for a day trip at the end of March - replacing a cabin camping trip. We’ll reevaluate the week before. The church where our monthly meeting is held closes tomorrow, but we already canceled the meeting for next week. 

It will be a tougher call going forward, imho, to cancel bigger scout events at both local and regional levels. My youngest was/is really looking forward to his first year at Sabattis for summer camp. 

If we’re all stuck at home, maybe an online group merit badge session on Medicine? 😄

On 3/9/2020 at 8:53 AM, karunamom3 said:

Due to coronavirus, has anyone cancelled or not booked a planned event? Has your council or district done so?

We have a big camp-in scheduled but are now on the fence about going.  We need to book & pay this week. For reference we are in NJ sandwiched by 5 cases above us and 1 case below us. I think the majority of scouters are not worried about the virus, but more about quarantines since NJ has a few hundred folks in self quarantine already and it has just begun here.

We are one of the towns who have a case now. Our schools are closed today for cleaning, so that means our troop meeting is canceled. 

I was thinking of starting a thread talking about suggestions for continuing the program while trying to deal with this. New topic, or post here?

4 minutes ago, qwazse said:

-- Insert rant about increasingly verbose requirements here --

These guys are earning Hiking and they haven't got past 2nd class? Bully for them! Log the miles, because they may count for the National Outdoor Award.  But, the letter of the 2nd and 1st class requirements dictate "troop/patrol activities" for no apparent reason. So only those hikes where they brought along at least their patrol would count for those ranks.

And to @SSScout's scenario, if a patrol wants to come mow my lawn for an hour, the PL's may indeed have their scouts count that as one of their 10 activities. He can then walk over to the Hiking MBCs house (about three miles away) with his blue card, and mow that guy's lawn!

Nothing says you have to log any of that detail anywhere. Back when I was a scout, the SM would note such things in his shoe-box of scout files just in case you made Eagle, then head read off the miles that you've covered by foot, boat, or bike. No patch. Just bragging rights!

My own son is First Class, and there are two others the same rank, one Star, and 2 Tenderfoot. (The Tenderfoot scouts joined late, so they’re in 9th grade already.)These scouts all wanted to work on this together, so only the two Tenderfoot need any of the hikes as part of rank advancement. 

Our Troop keeps track of hiking miles. So if we do a camping trip out on the Appalachian Trail, we count the camping nights, but also keep a log of how many miles hiked. 

In any case, it sounds like it can be added to their hiking totals, since it’s ‘under the auspices’.  I have to say, though, I have GOT to find a couple of our younger ASMs to do the 20 mile with the boys. My poor ancient knees don’t like hiking much anymore, no matter how much my brain wants to do it. 

A group of scouts from our troop have been working on the hiking merit badge, and one of the moms had a question I don’t know the answer to. I tried a search, but wasn’t pulling up quite what I was looking for. 

Our troop uses Troopmaster for advancement as well as keeping records of activities.  One of the activity types that we keep a record of is hiking. Do the miles hiked for the merit badge get recorded as a hiking activity?  Is it up to each troop to decide?  Could use something me guidance here. 

If this proposal were brought before our committee, we would almost certainly ask the scout to add to the scope of the project.  The amount of work to be done doesn't have to be X number of hours, but if a project is too small, how much leadership and organization is being done by the Eagle candidate?

We have a scout who just finished a project similar to this.  He enlarged a deer exclosure (area to keep deer out, so that native species could flourish) and raised the surrounding fencing by a couple feet.  Because the fencing is plastic mesh attached to metal poles, we felt that by itself wouldn't have been enough.  The scout also constructed a new gate to restrict vehicular access, and planted more native trees and grasses in the exclosure.  The addition of the gate also made it clear that the beneficiary (parks department) was gaining something new from the project, rather than just having a re-do of an existing (albeit not-quite-functioning) area.

Is this in a public area?  Would it be beneficial to add a kiosk or other type of structure that tells guests what the purpose of the log pile is?  Maybe a bench for sitting to observe what's going on in the area?  In my very limited experience, it seems like adding either an instructional component or something that is useful to either the general public or the group who benefits, removes any worries that the project won't be approved.  Might be important if the scout doesn't have time for a lot of back and forth with the council before he turns 18.

One other idea for Liz is to have someone in your Troop volunteer with the pack as well. I used to do all the graphic art for the pack and make take home ‘gifts’ for the PW Derby. I’ve offered to continue doing this - albeit to a lesser degree - even though my boys are done with Cubs. 

This year I helped their new advancement chair make derby car stands out of inexpensive Home Depot materials. I came up with the design, her husband cut the materials, she assembled much of it, then she and the Cubmaster came over and we had some vino while staining the stands and attaching a label. It didn’t take more than two-ish hours of time, I got to hang with some other scout moms, and hopefully build a relationship with the newer parents of the pack. 

One problem for our troop is that the cub numbers are dwindling, so we have to come up with ways to reach outside of the scouting family.   We do a lot of what PackMan suggests, and it works, but we still need to do more. Or learn to live with 30 scouts in the Troop rather than 60. 

An update, of sorts.  The Scoutmaster gave me back the blue cards last week.  The scout will need to re-do all of them.  At that point (last Tuesday), the SM still hadn't had a conversation with the scout.  He said he would talk to the scout at this past weekend's camping trip, so I hope that actually happened.  I'm a little concerned that so much time has passed, with no conversation, from when the scout first turned in the cards.  If the SM didn't speak to the scout yesterday/Saturday, I'll ask that the SM let me talk to him at our weekly meeting tomorrow.  I'll admit to being cowardly when it comes to having to address this with the scout, but he needs to be given the time to re-do the merit badges, and it's been a month now.

Can't speak to a non-mummy bag, though I will say that as much as I hated the mummy bag at first, after many a camping trip it's no longer an issue.  

I have four sleeping pads, because I'm picky and still haven't found the one I love most of all.  First one is a Thermo-rest inflatable.  It's the warmest, but it's bulky and it isn't self-inflating, and takes a while to get it blown up.  It also isn't quite thick enough for me.  As a side-sleeper and female, it lets my hip bones hit the ground, so I end up tossing around all through the night.  This is the pad I take for cabin camping where we'll have cots or bunks and where I don't have to carry it very far.

Next I bought one of the egg-crate, accordion fold foam pads.  Very light, but still bulky.  It's not hard to strap it under the backpack, though.  It does an okay job of keeping the shoulder and hip from too much contact with the ground, but it's not great. I've given this one to my son, who is younger and made of rubber.  Bought a second on for son #2, and this same pad is the one nearly all our youth camp with.

Third, I tried an inflatable mattress pad from ALPS Mountaineering.  You inflate it by pressing on a foam pillow with a one-way air valve at the head of the pad.  This one is nice and thick, doesn't require you to actually blow into it, and is slightly smaller than a two-liter bottle, but there's no R-value because of the air between you and the sleeping surface.  My biggest complaint, though, and what keeps me from ever using this one, is that it's too narrow.  Every time I rolled over, I rolled off, and with the little bit of extra height/thickness, that wasn't pleasant.

Last up I bought a Klymet Static V, in XL.  At 5'7" I didn't need the extra length, but it's also wider than the others - 26 or 27" wide, rather than 23".  That extra means even if I roll over, I'm still on the pad.  I was worried about it at first because it isn't solid, but has openings in the mat - kind of an X or open V pattern - and I thought it might let parts of my body hit the ground, but it hasn't been a problem at all.  It packs down to slightly larger than a typical soda can and is super light.  As with the other air pad, there's no R-value to speak of, but this is my go-to for all summer camping and backpacking trips.  Also, because of the open pattern, it takes less air to blow it up.

On 2/22/2020 at 6:58 PM, SSScout said:

Liz:   Remember that your recruitment commission (what? The SMS didn't tell you about the commission for every Scout you enlist? Well. let me get my tongue outta my cheek) does not depend on ONLY AOL/Webelos crossovers.  Make sure you have some  notoriety in the middle schools .  The School Counselors should know of your existence.  Take home flyers?  Ask about the backpack requirements and see your DE about getting some flyers printed up. Post cards for your Scouts to hand to their friends with an event invitation.  Campfire hotdog roast, flag retirement, nature hike ,  something like that, easy and friendly.  

"All Scouting Is Local".  

Hotdog roast is one I hadn't come up with - thanks!  

The nearest girls' troop here also pulls from multiple towns.  At a recent BOR in our town's troop (boys), one of the committee members mentioned that it's a shame our town doesn't have a troop for girls.  Well, the town that has the troop had everything organized and ready to go prior to the official start date for girls.  They had a CO, CC, and SM.  They had already done recruiting.  We didn't.  The reason for bringing this up is that I think being first goes a long way and applies to several situations. 

As it applies to recruiting, be first.  (In addition to other good suggestions made here.)  While any recruiting is helpful, if your troop is doing something fun and original, it may draw more interest than if you're second to hold an event or are doing something similar to what's already been done.

Part of the reason I logged on this time was to run an idea for recruiting past all you fine folks, so I hope Liz doesn't mind my piggy-backing off hers.  Here's what I want to do, and where I'm struggling with implementation.  One of the biggest things I've run across when trying to recruit in person is "my kid is too busy with ___".  I want to highlight some of our scouts who manage other interests and still find time for scouting.  Some examples: one of our scouts just became a National Honor Society member, he holds a regular job after school, and is an active scout planning his Eagle project; one plays varsity football and soccer (and has letters in both as a Junior), is a straight A student, and is an active scout - currently our Quartermaster; yet another has won championships in chess and robotics, plays bass guitar, and just made First Class.

One way I plan on relaying this will be at our outdoor recruiting event.  I'm planning on having scout-shaped cut-outs that have these highlights written on them at each station.  But... they don't get seen by anyone who isn't at the event.  I've asked for other ideas from our committee, but got what basically amounts to a shrug in response.  One idea (which still needs to be run by the committee) is to utilize our town's FaceBook page.  On Mondays, businesses are allowed to advertise.  I'd imagine they would let me write a recruiting post, and with no names attached, I'm hopeful that the parents/committee would be okay with it.  Anyone else have suggestions?

I gave the blue cards to the Scoutmaster last night.  Will let you know how he decides to handle this/approach the scout.

On another note, our young-ish and very eager MC for the next COH is driving me up the wall, lol.  I told him Friday morning that I would send an advancement report later that afternoon so he could start working on the program.  He emailed a half-hour later telling me I "must have forgotten" to send the report "in the rush of things". 

2 hours ago, PACAN said:

Just a question....is this scout pushing 18?   

Which Eagle MBs other than Cooking you mentioned ?

Of course he is. 

I do think this has shown that it would be a good idea to have the SPL go over blue card procedures at an upcoming meeting.  In addition to this issue, I had a heck of a time trying to get one of the young scouts to understand it. I didn’t have a print-out of the most recent MB Counselor list with me (had come straight from work), and couldn’t get the document to load on my phone. He couldn’t understand why I wasn’t going to forward the list to him.  He wondered aloud why, if scouts were supposed to be responsible, he couldn’t have the list for himself, lol. 

59 minutes ago, qwazse said:

So, in this case, there is no way of telling which counselor the prior SM or advancement chair suggested for each of these badges, no way of knowing if this counselor was registered and the paperwork got lost, no way of knowing if this person counseled any other scouts. The only actions are to 1) call the counselor, and 2) let the scout know that strangers on the Internet think his blue cards for these badges will get his Eagle application flagged.

The scout needs a do-over. It's that simple.

Couldn't decide between a 'like' or a 'laugh' here.

7 hours ago, ParkMan said:

DId you approve that this person was to be the MBC before work began?  Sorry if you already answered this - but I missed it.

I'm not sure the technical reason about why an unregistered MBC cannot sign off on merit badges.  I agree that having someone not qualified to sign off make absolutely no sense - but I'm not aware if there is really any check on this.  If there were, I have to imagine that many Eagle applications would be returned due to all the council mistakes about getting folks registered.

There are a couple things going on here.  On some, the previous person approved/wrote a counselor, on some it was me who gave the counselor name.  On those cards, the new counselor was written over the top.  On a few, they were issued for summer camp, so no counselor was written in when they were given.

7 hours ago, qwazse said:

Okay, I'm re-reading. So, you're saying for each MB ...

• The scout turned in his copy and the unit copy. (We assume the counselor has 9 of his portion of the application.)
• The counselor signed the scout's portion and the unit's portion.
• You or another SM signed once? Was that the applicant's portion?
• And now the scout is giving you the unit portion? And you're trying to decide if you should sign-off on "checked and recorded"?

 

7 hours ago, Buggie said:

My pedantic mind always goes into logic mode. 

Sure, the MBC isn't registered at council this year. The cards are all dated last year by the MBC Signature. Was the MBC listed in the BSA last year and during that time period, were they registered as MBC for those badges. If they weren't, the whole set of blue cards aren't valid. Which is a tough thing to tell the Scout. 

If they were, you can't retest. All you can do is advise that this will be noticed again and could be questioned. You have to accept the cards as valid (with the exception of the one card with the subject line crossed off). 

Your first bullet point - yes he handed me the unit copy and his copy.  Our troop usually returns the scout portion along with the MB patch at a COH.

Second - yes the counselor signed both portions.

Third and fourth bullets - the blue cards that were issued by my predecessor are signed on the unit section, and on the applicant's record.  The ones I issued to the scout are signed on the unit portion, but not the applicant part.  No one ever told me how this was supposed to be done, so I've been signing the applicant's record part upon completion of the MB.  In this case, the scout handed the blue cards to me at the end of a troop meeting, so we didn't discuss anything, and it wasn't until the following morning that I had a chance to look at them closely.

This person hasn't been registered to the council associated with his address for the past three years, and even when he was, he wasn't a MB counselor for them.  Unless he was registered somewhere else in November of last year, it sounds like he's not a MB counselor at all.

To the point about the signatures, all the blue cards have a unit leader signature on the front, whether mine or my predecessor’s. The counselor signatures are done. The final unit leader signature would either be myself or our current SM, and neither of us has signed at this point, given the concerns we have. 

In our unit, since we have a fair number of scouts, the blue cards are issued by the SM’s appointee - me - and typically I’m the one who goes over the cards with the scout when they’re completed, though on occasion the SM goes over them and gives them to me to enter and purchase the corresponding badges. 

The troop, following guidelines, discourages having MB counselors who are family members, but I did hear back from our CC and he says he and the old advancement person had given approval to the scout to use family for “a couple” merit badges. CC and I agree that at a minimum, the scout needs to request a new blue card for cooking; the card where the original subject was crossed out and cooking written in.

While waiting to hear from the CC, I called the council for the town listed on the counselor’s address line. They do not have this person listed as a MB counselor for any MB, and he’s not currently registered with that council.

Spoke to the SM last night, and our first step will be to simply ask the scout which council the counselor is registered with.  I’ll also let him know that he’ll need a new blue card for the cooking. There’s a counselor near him who is very responsive, so hopefully we can resolve that one quickly.  

So here’s one more question. In re-reading the guide to advancement, I was paying close attention to the part about not retesting the scout or having the scout prove that they did the work. I would think that questioning the counselor’s eligibility doesn’t fall into that category, but if it’s determined the signatory of the card is not a counselor, where does that leave the unit and the scout in terms of the retesting?