swilliams

8 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Sadly, Pros sometimes won't listen, and they will downright ignore you. DE set a district Cub event 4 for the same time and place as the district camporee and IOLS training with only 4 weekds notice.. Camporee chief saw it on the calendar website, called the council office about it, and NO ONE knew about it. Asked to get it pulled from the council calendar. DE is furious because HIS event was removed. When both the camporee chief and ITOLS SM state that having that is a problem, they were ignored and told the event will go on. Camporee Chief had to make numerous last minute changes: designated parking areas, marking off an assigned campsite that was going to be surrounded by Cub Scouts, redoing the entire compass course to get to events because 1/2 the area to be used was now for the Cub Scouts, etc. Both Camporee chief and ITOLS SM quit after the weekend.

 

Human nature, I suppose, but it's frustrating.  The schools in our district have a "Friday Folder": an email blast sent out to all parents with information about upcoming school and community events.  I wanted to put a flyer for our town's Troop, plus the Venture Crew and girls' Troop - which are in a different town - in one of the Friday Folders to let parents know about the opportunities that are out there.  The school district said yes, but our DE said no.  The reason given was because the DE wanted to explore the possibility of adding a girls' Troop in our town.  Well, that's nice, but that doesn't help the girls who are looking for a troop right now.  Word of mouth has spread, though, and four girls from our town have already joined the troop in the neighboring town.

I think it will be a while before the whole 'girls in scouting' becomes a regular topic.  I told one of the dads in my youngest son's den about the girls troop, and he said, "We don't go for that kind of thing around here." 

I guess I should say 'former den'.  He's crossed over and gets to join his brother in the troop!!

Well, this thread has put a bit of a damper on my feelings about having posted a link to a girls' troop taking 2nd place at Klondike. 

I'm hoping it was a true win.  I do know the older scouts were practicing for the event even before the troop was fully formed.  I think they were worried about having a poor showing, and that can be quite a motivator.  They were competing in the 11-13 year old group, so it's not like they were up against senior scouts and still came away with a second-place win.

I see how there is certainly a lot of hype right now, and see how it can be viewed in a slightly negative light, but it should also be seen as the positive tool that it is for creating interest for girls who may be on the fence about joining.  One can only guess that this will all have died down in another year.

This is our nearest troop.  Our Venture Crew (all girl) shares a CO and meeting location, so on the one night a month the crew meets and the scouts are there, we tend to peek our heads in and see what's up.  The troop is continuing to have girls sign up, with a reported two additional in March.  I think they're over 20 now, but would have to double-check on that.

In any case, they sure put 100% effort into the Klondike, with a few of the older scouts training ahead of time, even though the charter wasn't official yet.

https://rennamedia.com/new-bsa-troop-280-places-high-in-regional-race/

Similar matter here.  I had a scout contact me because his MB counselor hasn't been getting back to him.  We just found out the MB counselor is sick - terminally ill.  The counselor has the blue card, and none of us is comfortable with attempting to get the counselor to return it, given the circumstances.

I figured I'd just issue a new blue card to the scout and have him contact a new counselor.  I'm sure the scout would rather get the original back, but sometimes things happen, so maybe a good lesson in being flexible?  I would hope that the new MB counselor would take the scout's word as to what he'd already done, but do you think a head's up to the new counselor would be appropriate?  Wait for the scout to contact him and see what transpires?

I took over advancement for the troop a while back, but am new to this part, having only issued a single blue card so far.

4 hours ago, ParkMan said:

@HashTagScouts Thank you - much appreciated.  I do understand the history of how Scouting has worked for the LDS church.  I am glad that the LDS church is now defining their own youth program.  As they grow internationally, I think this is a good thing for them.  I just thought this statement from the LDS leadership and the way that they will not charter Scouting units, not allow Scouting activities on their faciliaties, nor faciliate the seemless transition of youth to non LDS units is turning a pretty cold shoulder to Scouting.

More broadly - just because it's no longer their youth program doesn't mean that they need to kick it out of the building.  They have smart members and I'm sure people would adapt perfectly well if the local leaders had said "On, January 1, 2020, you need to start attending our new youth program.  If you want to continue in Scouting, it is your choice and is optional.  Those meetings will be on Thursday nights at 7:30pm."  This works fine for all other kinds of denominations around the country.  But, they didn't do that, and they are in essence saying "On January 1, 2020, Scouting ends.  If you want to continue Scouting you need to go do it somewhere else."  Ouch!

That there are so many outstanding Scouts & Scouters who are members of the LDS faith is another great reason for the LDS church to be willing to charter units like just about every other religious group in the US.  Given how central the church is to many LDS members, I would have to imagine it would be a popular option for a local LDS church to sponsor a Scouting unit.  I expect that it would only serve to further strengthen the community of their congregation to have yet another activity their youth and adults can do together.

 

I'm glad you posted this.  The bolded is that part that bothered me.  To be fair, perhaps it's how the article presented the information.

I should probably say that I didn't peel bark from the standing trees, but took it from downed ones.   Unlike pine and some other trees where the bark crumbles as the tree decomposes, these left nice little tubes that were easily separated from the rest of the trunk.  Maybe the oils preserve the bark?  Which leads me to also wonder whether any species you find where the trunk is decomposing but the bark is relatively intact, would be good fire-starters with similar properties.

(My daughter says I'm spending way too much time thinking about bark.)

2 hours ago, ParkMan said:

Maybe it's just me, but this policy sounds remarkably unfriendly to me.  

Other religious denomiations I know of seem to have no problem with fliers being up in the church and leaving it to local churches to decide if they want to sponsor a Scouting unit.  Not sure I see the need to be so unfriendly to Scouting.

I'm not sure if I'd use "unfriendly", but totally see what you mean.  It's almost like the church leaders are trying to tell non-LDS people what to do with their own troops.  Of course, when it concerns church buildings, membership data, etc. it's understandable, but this seems to cross that line a bit, and I'm having a hard time articulating why, exactly, it's bothering me.

It's encouraging to see, from those comments in the original link, that there are a number of families who've joined community troops and have found the programs to be engaging for their scouts.   It's understandably a hard thing to admit that when Scoutmasters are called, rather than being volunteers, that scouting can suffer as a result.  Getting ward members to step out of their comfort zones can lead to great personal growth, but it can also let down a significant number of youth.  I have no idea what the answer is, but wish LDS the best of luck with their new program.  (Not being sarcastic or flippant here.)

Our Crew Advisor has two daughters in Venturing, and has a son who is an Eagle, so he's full of wisdom.  In addition to typical scouting things, I picked up the following from him.  If you're wanting some coffee in the morning (yes, please) and take it with milk and sugar, yet have none available, you can add a packet of hot chocolate.  Makes it both sweet, and more creamy.  Doesn't taste the same, but makes the coffee palatable (even enjoyable) for those of us who are too weak to drink it black. 

I also had a great opportunity this weekend to try out something one of our ASMs had told me about at our last Troop meeting.  He was talking about fire-building, and mentioned that birch bark has oils in it that makes it burn nicely even when things are damp.   He claimed that you can dunk white birch bark in water for a bit, shake it off, and still get it to burn.  So... we were hiking with our girls' Venture Crew yesterday, and our navigator got us "lost" not once, but twice.  On our first detour, I'd noticed a downed black birch.  The ground was soaked from both snow-melt and a heavy rain Friday night, so the bark was damp.  The girls were starting to grumble a little, and there was some dispute over whether to turn back and retrace our path, or continue on and try to loop around the lake. Luckily, the majority of girls voted to try and push forward, and around a bend in the lake I found a small stand of four white birch.  They're not easy to find in north-central NJ, so I was pretty excited.  By this point, they were all curious as to what I was doing, so I repeated what the ASM had told me.  We were all a little skeptical, lol.

I have to say, it worked exactly like he'd said.  Some of the girls were less than impressed because our Crew Advisor has spoiled them by keeping some dry pieces of pine in his car.  (He's in some kind of construction or maintenance field.)  The don't have enough of an appreciation for how hard it can be to light a fire without dry kindling.  I'm going to suggest that for our next campout he "forget" to bring the dry bits, lol.  We'll see if that makes them a bit happier to scour the woods for birch bark.

Have any tips of your own to share?

I (electronically) asked my family and friends who have scout-aged kids whether they'd be considering continuing in scouting/BSA, regardless of what the church comes up with in terms of a program.  The only two people who replied were my sister and my dad, neither of whom have sons in scouting anymore, lol.  If what they said is any indication, there are still some families who want their sons to earn Eagle.  Unfortunately, I think a lot of LDS troops looked at scouting ONLY as a path to Eagle, and know for a fact that more than a few troops never followed the patrol method well and did very few outdoor activities.  I had really been hoping my brother (with two young sons) would chime in.  I guess I'll have to pick up the phone. 

As for Venturing, too many don't even know what that is.  We didn't, until I started searching for alternatives to Girl Scouts, which my daughter hated.  My husband had met a group of Polish Girl Scouts, who lived in NYC, and was impressed by them.  We looked into it, but she's have had to speak Polish - like that was going to happen!  Eventually, we stumbled across Venturing.  Last night, we were at a Board of Ed meeting for my daughter's swim team to receive an award, and I told two people - separately - that we had to leave early for a Crew meeting.  I didn't really thing about it, but both assumed I meant rowing, and one of them is even our Committee Chair for our Troop.

Our Crew was started by two or three dads who had boys in scouts, and they wanted something for their daughters.  It's all-girl, and it's mainly camping and high adventure, so that's our draw.  Even with Girl Troops starting, we're still drawing new girls.  Perhaps because they're slightly older (14 v. 11), they like that we have one meeting and one trip per month, leaving them plenty of time for other things.  We have two girls who are focused on advancing in the program, but none of the other 20-ish girls care at all.  Goes along with what some of you have said. 

On ‎3‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 5:26 PM, mrkstvns said:

We do a Shooting Sports weekend too. Our NRA-certified instructor covers safety rules within about 30 minutes and does another 15 minutes while out on the range showing the boys how to operate the specific bolt-action .22 rifle provided by the council at camp. The boys are then closely supervised by NRA-certified RSOs with the instructor acting as coach. The boys get MUCH more time out on the range than they spend in lecture.

2 3-hour sessions. 

Wow. 

Just Wow.

I'm not even a kid and I'm bored just contemplating it...

I was thinking the session described wouldn't only be about safety, but also going over the rifle/shotgun and learning about function as well, and maybe a little bit about ammunition, sights, etc.  For a lot of these scouts, this will be the first time they'll have ever laid a hand on a gun.  Many may not even know how the firearm functions.

Sounds like you're in a very tough spot.  As much as I can appreciate the desire to start a linked girls' troop, if the current troop only has seven scouts and is on its last legs, will there be any benefit to having the girls' troop linked?  It sounds like there's not really a functioning troop for the boys at all, and while that doesn't automatically mean the girls' troop can't work, it might be tough to get the troop to flourish when the other isn't.

Also, only you and your own kids can decide, but think about what they hope to get out of scouting.  If the best way to keep your son interested enough that you aren't dragging him through the program is to join another troop, then that might be the best choice.  It's tough because in a way the other cubs who are crossing over appear to be reliant on you, but without some serious help and reorganization, it wouldn't be surprising if those who do cross over can't be retained. 

In your same situation, I might chose to look into a nearby girls troop that already exists for your daughter who has two years left for Cub Scouts, and put your efforts into making the existing boys' troop function for those scouts whom you've already recruited and been working with, and for your son who will cross over now.

So, I just gave an 'I love it' rep to a post from 2010, lol.

We still have three metal mess kits, but I can't remember the last time anything was cooked in them.  For me, personally, I cook a fair amount over the fire, but not in the mess kit since it's usually for my family of five. 

My daughter does take a metal cup along with her plastic mess kit, so she can heat water for hot chocolate over the backpacking stove.  Our crew and troop does a lot of cooking in the Dutch oven, but again, not the same. Now I'm going to have to throw this out there as a challenge for some of the older scouts who are starting to think they know it all.

On ‎12‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 8:11 AM, ParkMan said:

I think you're conflating issues here.  Yes there are YPT rules.  The point is that we shouldn't fall into the same trap we all describe the GSUSA of doing - assuming the women need to the leaders of troops with scouts who are girls. 

Aside from YPT rules, I envision a lot of fathers who are looking for ways to participate in the Scouting activities of their daughters.  If my daughter wants to join a troop I'll volunteer.

My daughter's Venture Crew (all girl) is led by three dads who started the crew for their daughters.  There are three women on the committee now (we're called 'Associate Advisors' ), but the main leaders are still men.

Ask a few scout shops as well.  Sometimes they get old uniforms, and occasionally some of the less sentimental patches are left on.

One of our all-girl Venture crew leaders recently created a new web page.  Under the 'Who We Are' tab, these are the first sentences:

"Simply put, we are Boy Scouts... who are girls! Why? Well, because we love being outdoors!"

None of our girls has any issue being referred to as Boy Scouts.  Shame the name couldn't have been left alone.

1 hour ago, Thunderbird said:

@swilliams   Is your son currently in the 5th grade?  Is there a separate Webelos den for 4th graders?  If so, both dens are actually Webelos dens and he can meet with either (if the den leader of the den for 4th graders is agreeable).

Like @Pale Horse says, most Cub Scout requirements can be done on your own (outside of den meetings).  Do the requirement, then have your son talk to his Den Leader about what he did, and get it signed off.  Even better is if he takes pictures to show what he did.  This is actually good practice for when he joins a troop.

As another option, talk to the Cubmaster / Pack Committee Chair about taking over as the Webelos Den Leader for the 5th graders.

I tried that with the last pack - not taking over, but splitting the den, as we had 14 Webelos.  Was told 'no'.  Long story.  Suffice to say it didn't work out

2 hours ago, Pale Horse said:

You do realize you don't need to be a Lone Scout to work on requirements outside of Den Meetings?

Do the requirements, have your son talk to his Den Leader about them and get them signed off.   

I had kind of forgotten this, to be honest.  I guess because I'm mainly involved with the older kids in Boy Scouts now, it didn't register.  Getting old and slow. 

I realize the OP posted this in September, but I'm chiming in now to share what I've found in the last couple days

If you look at my post history, you'll see we've had some difficulties in pack structure and leadership, and our den meetings at our local pack had deteriorated.  Much more to the story, but it's a tl:dr.  We switched packs at the end of the school year.  With our new pack, we did all kinds of summer events, and my son was having a great time, but we didn't meet his den leader until very end of the summer.  That was the first warning bell.  So... fast-forward, and we've only had one den meeting so far this entire year.  This is the entire reason we changed packs: my son really wants to earn his Arrow of Light, like his brother did, but it wasn't and isn't happening with either of these dens.

I called council to see if we could set him up as a lone scout just so he can finish his last few requirements.  Their first question/suggestion was that we join another pack.  Ugh.  It's not exactly easy for many boys to fit into an existing group, and I don't really want to put my son through that again.  I suppose I could go through what  I did with the last pack - offering to plan and host den meetings, track the boys' progress, etc., but by the time things get sorted, I'm afraid it will be too late. 

I had only talked to the person in charge of registration, and he gave me our DE's number.  I left a message and haven't received a call back.  Pretty much what I expected.  No one likes to deal with this stuff.  Now what?  I don't know.  It seems like council and/or the DE is hoping that if they ignore me, I'll go away.  At this point, it's really freaking tempting to have my son do the requirements and hand him the Arrow patch whether it's officially recognized, or not.

Trefoil Ranch in Utah, for a week with the Girl Scouts.  I hated it, though I'm sure that was through no fault of the camp.  I had no friends in Girl Scouts, so I'm not sure why my parents sent me, other than maybe to get me out of their hair, lol.

The vast majority of my camping experience was with my family.  Dad is an outdoorsman, so we camped a LOT.  Most vivid memories are him hiding our Easter baskets up in some scrub oak one year, and having the back of our (the kids) tent collapse on us due to a heavy snow, while dad slept soundly in the truck/camper.

On ‎9‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 3:23 PM, Horizon said:

It exists, and we created it. Let me provide some examples.

Pinewood derby - when the winning car comes from the kid whose family has the tool set at home to build the perfect racer or art object. They get the awards, while the kids who actually did it himself goes home discouraged. The next year, other parents learn the rules of the game and take over.

Campsite pioneering projects - where the camp rewards the 2:00 AM dads, while the Troop of boys whose gateway is a lashed collection of random poles and lines (but with proper knots) does not place. The next year, adult leaders either take charge - or the Troop votes to not bother with that part of the contest.

Eagle projects - where someone at the Council starts adding requirements until the only way to get approved is to have a parent used to running RFPs, procurement, or large-scale construction projects involved. Eagle being marketed as the most important thing in the world means that parents quickly realize the only path forward is to take control.

I can give similar observations for science fair, the dreaded California Mission projects, or other ways the school issue homework that can only be completed to the teacher's satisfaction when parents become heavily involved. 

We can be the ones in the way, insisting on only working with the youth. BUT. We also must ensure that what we require is appropriate for the youth we are mentoring, and that we are not adding to the requirements in such a way as to make it impossible (or improbable) that a youth can complete on their own.

Had to trophy your post for this comment.  Our schools have a FaceBook page for each grade.  For the last week, every post from the parents has been about a particular assignment that there is no way the kids can complete on their own.  Some of the comments are hysterical, but the underlying issue is not.

My boys are still on the young side, 12 and 10, so I've not brought this up.  It's too tempting to stick my head in the sand, rather than try to wade into the murk that is the current #metoo.  It's sad to think that it's no longer enough to talk to them about treating girls with respect, but to have to add in precautions about making sure they can't be accused of inappropriate behavior.

As for my daughters, one was groped in the hallway of middle school - early 2000's, plenty of witnesses.  She immediately went to the school director, told him what had happened and pointed out the boy, who ended up being suspended for three days.  When he came back to school, he was determined to exact revenge.  Being in NYC, the school building didn't have room for the 7th and 8th grade kids to eat lunch in the cafeteria, so they were allowed out for lunch.  He followed her and a group of friends to the local deli, pushed their food off the table, then shoved my daughter into the street as she was walking back to school.  Luckily the oncoming car was able to brake in time.  While you never want a girl to feel she can't speak up, it never occurred to her that she would end up in a far more difficult situation because of it, and she expressed frustration and some regret for having come forward.

What an awful, muddled mess.  Can we just separate them all until they're in their 20's?

I wish I had a picture to share.  I worked in a local scout shop, and a grown man brought in his old merit badge sash.  One of the merit badges had fallen off.  He wanted me to sew it back on, but "make it look like the rest of them - like they way I did it when I was 16, using my mom's old machine".  It was one of the most heartwarming things I've ever seen; with black, uneven stitching showing all around the insides of the badges.

22 hours ago, Jameson76 said:

Not much conversation in our district.  One of our two packs at the CO may be adding girls, but I believe they determined to hold off on Lions (comment was Holy Mother of God...6 years of Cubs!!!!)

For the troop we are continuing business as usual.  Determination is that we will not be part of any linked troop.  If the CO and some currently unnamed folks want to start a Girls troop, we wish them well.  We would be glad to have a conversation on what has worked for us and best practices.

This pretty much sums up where we are, too.  Our CO is okay with it, and they charter a few different packs/troops, but we've seen very little interest.

My daughter (13) joined an all-girl Venture crew and is happy as a clam.  It was started in 2016 by a couple dads who wanted something for their daughters.  They decided to keep it all girl, with the thought that the boys already had two troop in towns to choose from.  The crew now has girls from at least seven of the surrounding towns - mine is one of them.

I think for those who are early to get started, there's a better chance that they'll draw from a larger area than there is the chance that most districts will have multiple troops.

34 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

I'm a former lifeguard and lifeguard instructor. I cannot tell you enough how dangerous ANY type of GO rescue is. And I was an instructor back when they taught you how to make rescues without equipment, something they no longer do today.  EVERY TIME YOU GO YOU PUT YOUR LIFE AT RISK. 

What a tragedy.  I feel for this troop and its leadership.

My younger son's Cub pack just had an overnight trip to the Absecon Lighthouse in NJ.  One of the things the lighthouse keeper told us was that the rescue crew when the lighthouse was first built had a saying, "You have to go out, but you don't have to come back", which the Coast Guard still uses.  Apparently more of these brave men lost their lives practicing rescues than they did while performing actual rescues.  Yes, dangerous.  A tragedy happened, now we only hope that lessons will be taken from it.

That's such a difficult situation.  I was all ready to step up as CC when our current said she was stepping down.  Then she didn't, and the pack is really limping along without strong leadership from either her or the Cubmaster.  I tried to find various ways to help, but there's some kind of weird power struggle going on, and the two of them aren't open to any suggestions.  One of our best den leaders offered to be Assistant Cubmaster, and was told 'no'.  A little while later, that position was taken off the list of open positions, but no one can (or will) say who filled it.  In the end, we switched to another pack when it became clear that the COR wasn't going to get involved.

On ‎5‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 12:37 PM, Eagle94-A1 said:

I personally got mixed emotions on this, and as National come out wiht more and more, I am leaning against.Why do I have mixed emotions?

On one hand, I staffed camps in the UK, and saw how coed Scouting can work. Were there challenges, a few. But overall it worked. On the other hand I have my experiences in a Sea Scout ship and with Explorer posts and Venturing Crews. With my ship, the guys did the work and the dirty jobs, while the girls did nothing. I still remember having to transfer gear from ship to shore with the other guys, while the girls were on the beach goofing off. Heck I remember them complaining about their gear getting wet because they didn't waterproof their gear , after I taught a class on waterproofing gear. I also remember some of the guys having to carry the ship's head ( latrine) out of the ship to the island, and then having to set up a GP tent for the girls to have a bathroom. Oh and the guys couldn't use it. Because of the double standards in the ship, I didn't stay long,just long enough to earn Ordinary.

This is a big reason for my hope that troops can actually be kept separate.  Even when things are equal, it's human nature to see inequality.  My husband was laid off last fall, and through the role reversal of him being home with the kids while I'm working over 40 hours a week, we've gotten a pretty good laugh at ourselves and our perceptions of how hard (or not) the other was working.

My very first reaction on hearing the news about adding girls was excitement, but that has been tempered quite a bit in the time since.  Initial excitement was because I'd seen what a great program scouting is; leadership, teamwork, outdoor skills... who wouldn't want that same thing for their daughters?  Then the terrible (imho) way national has handled this, combined with indications that there will actually be changes to the program, has me worried.  It's also been discouraging to see the divide that has sprung up even among individuals in our troop.

Oh, background.  Scouting family.  I tried Girl Scouts for a year, but hated every second of it despite our local troop doing a lot of outdoor activities.   It was due more to lack of friends in the troop than anything else.  Told my own sons that scouting is a family tradition and they have to do it, lol.  I stepped in as acting Den Leader for a bit when our actual DL's son got very sick, and did advancement for the pack, as well as various other non-position positions.  I'm on the Troop Committee and will be taking over advancement sometime in the next year, as the current Advancement Chair's son will likely be making Eagle.  I'm also an adult female for our Crew's activities - something they've struggled with when it comes to outdoor/overnight activities, and will be going with them to Philmont next year.  Which brings up a logistical issue for girl troops.  There's no escaping the reality that many females have no interest in the relative hardships of many of the things that makes scouting great.  I grew up camping and hiking, then later mountain biking and kayaking, so to me it's fun, but there aren't many other moms/females in our Troop or Crew who feel the same way.  (Thanks, Dad, for Easter camping weekends and hiding our baskets up in the trees, making us hike for hours through the Utah woods looking for the perfect natural-grown Christmas tree, and taking us with you when you hunted.  Even if an early snow did collapse the tent on us while you slept in the camper!)