swilliams

8 hours ago, Hawkwin said:

Might start there.

And, as an ASM, that dad should have known the suspicion this was going to create and should have discussed with you in advance. Additionally, many of those MBs, like Cooking, should be verifiable from other sources. Such as, did the scout do the required cooking on a campout? That should be verifiable without the need to confront the scout or the ASM.

As far as verifying some of the requirements, he is active in the troop and I'm sure has done a lot of the requirements through participation.  I'll see what I can find out.   Still troubles me that almost nothing was signed off prior to November.

7 hours ago, MikeS72 said:

First question would be, is the person who signed all 9 cards a registered MBC for each of the MBs?  It is amazing at times how many registered adults do not understand that just because they are an ASM or a SM, they are not automatically authorized to sign off on what ever MB they choose.

I don't know, as the town where this person lives is about an hour from us and is in a different council.  To be clear, it wasn't his dad that signed them, but the someone with the same last name.  The blue cards date back to 2016, but only two of them have any partials recorded on other dates.  They're all marked the same day in November of last year for completion.  Six of the nine are for Eagle required merit badges.

I haven't heard back from our CC.  I'm leaning toward just emailing the scout and his dad and asking them about it, but I don't even know what to say.  "Excuse me, but are these fake news?"  LOL.  Seriously, though, this seems very shady.  If the scout says (as I expect he might) that they're all legit, then what?  Should I find out which council it is and call first?  Ugh.

I very much dislike it when I feel the need to question a scout or parent, but sometimes it happens.   This one is a biggie, and I've reached out to our CC, but wanted to get some other opinions - opinions and advice from those who don't know the scout.  Last night at our troop meeting, a Life scout handed me a stack of completed blue cards.  I sat down this morning to get them entered, and after recording two of them, realized that they all (9 of them) had been signed by someone with the same last name as the scout, on the same day.  In one case, the original subject of the blue card had been crossed out and Cooking written in its place.  

Thoughts?  If this is something that should be questioned (and in my mind it should), how do you approach the scout?  Oh, one more part of this is that dad is an ASM, so maybe he knows something I don't, since I'm new-ish to troop-level scouting?  Or maybe not.

19 hours ago, SSScout said:

Oh, it definitely has other value.  Scoutcamp will often pay you more if you are a Bugler.  Bugles Across America is a clearing house for Buglers needed for ceremonies (taps over veteran's burials, for instance) where there is an honorarium paid.  Local notoriety can lead to being asked to play at various ceremonies.  Being able to play "open valve"  leads to greater skill on your original (trumpet? cornet? trombone? baritone?)  instrument.  I played for my Wood Badge course , and I had folks thank me directly for playing "Tatoo"   in the evening.  Taps , it seems, was expected.  

What is "Tatoo"?  Do you have sheet music?  Bugleson (or maybe we should just refer to him as Scoutson, now that he's not really bugling anymore) felt that Taps was too melancholy.  Maybe our new bugler could use it as a replacement.

24 minutes ago, David CO said:

That's a recurring nightmare of mine.  Moms with chainsaws.

My recurring nightmare is that my husband will make me use the chainsaw.    I can, but I hate it and it scares me.

2 hours ago, Thunderbird said:

@swilliams  Does your son still want to be Bugler?  The SPL can appoint more than one Bugler, if he wants to.

No, sadly.  He stopped as soon as his six months was up - a year and a half ago.  He played at one of the Camporees with much encouragement (force? lol) from me, but he never really got comfortable playing in front of people.  He still loves band, where he's one of three dozen kids up there performing, and trombone is still his instrument of choice, but he will pick up the trumpet from time to time just to mess around.  I don't think he could hit that high G now.  Use it, or lose it.

Just wanted to thank you all once again.  Bugleson did get his merit badge (a long time ago now), but I came back to this thread for a reminder, as our Troop now has a second scout willing to take on the position of Bugler.  I'll pass along suggestions for him when he meets with the SPL to determine what his role should entail.

I have no experience with other Venture crews, but ours is probably not much like any other out there. It is all girls, for starters; mainly sisters of Boy Scouts.  The crew advisor quickly realized that while the girls wanted outdoor adventure, they had little interest in  Venture advancement. 

We meet once a month for an hour and a half, and have one outing a month during the school year. One of those is a day of outdoor service. That’s pretty much it, but it has done really well. The boys’ troop our CO charters is about 30 scouts,  the girls’ is 15, and the crew is 22 strong. 

14 hours ago, qwazse said:

Also interesting from that article, the anecdote of a scouter and his wife who ...

Moves like this could account for @Cburkhardt's noting an uptick in new units.

I've been saying similar, but my (admittedly hopeful) estimated number of LDS scouts/families who go this route are higher than most folks here agree with.

Found a few things while browsing  old threads, but could use some specific tips for recruiting.  I recently agreed to take on recruiting, as we haven’t had much luck in finding another adult to step into a formal recruiting position.  Here’s a little info about what’s up in our troop. 

We had previously drawn from two towns, but the neighboring  town has been able to get its own troop up and running, and they seem to be doing well. As a result, we won’t see any new scouts from that town. In addition, the packs in town have been going through some pretty major changes, and have seen their numbers drop to half of what they were when my family first moved here four years ago. This is also cutting down on the troop’s numbers, since we’ve had fewer cross over - three this year, and only one the previous year. One last drop in our numbers will happen in the next year, as 11 of our current 44 scouts age out. 

We held an open house last year, but despite advertising with flyers and on our town’s community forum, we only had two boys show up. We’ll have our invitational camping trip coming up, which is usually AOL scouts and maybe one other boy who is a friend of a scout in the troop. We’ll also be at out town’s Winter Walk a week from Saturday, making Smacos (s’mores in a flour tortilla) for attendees. We have signs showing some pictures of our high-adventure trips and other info that we’ll put up.  

Here’s what I’ve come up with so far for us to try. Ive gotten permission to put an electronic ‘flyer’ in the schools’ Friday Folder email that goes out to all parents. 

I’ve asked the SM, and he’s agreed, to request that our younger scouts try to get the ‘Invite a Friend’ requirement done sooner than later, so that if a boy does want to join he’s not too far behind what his friends are working on.

I’m currently working with one of the Packs to either have them visit the troop as a group, or have a group of our scouts visit the troop. The scouts will come up with ideas as to what to do at their next PLC meeting. (The second pack only has scouts up to Wolf, so less of a priority right now.)

Other ideas?  Thoughts on what I’ve proposed so far?  Any help is appreciated.

On 11/27/2019 at 9:34 PM, Onslow said:

I've lived in rural areas most of my life.  I now live in a very small town.  Being a rural dweller signifies nothing, and many rural people are successful in rural areas, or move to the cities, and become successful.  Rural folk are neither monochromatic or monolithic.  People in rural areas tend to be related in communities that are stable.  Nothing evil there, it's just the way things are.  However, an outsider may never be accepted or welcome.  I thought this was common knowledge, and not offensive.  Some rural areas are ravaged by people who have chosen to play with drugs, bed hop, and refuse to do their homework at school.  Some rural folk grieve over the poor choices people make, and become emotional and very upset.  This is life.  Inserting race and politics in the conversation is unfortunate, and serves no purpose.

Mods, If I could terminate my account I would.  I'm done here.  It would be greatly appreciated if my account would be terminated.

 

There are a number of members here who have offered help and asked for clarification from you, despite what some of us saw as a rather offensive opening. There’s a lot to learn here - if you were really looking for help.

Half glad you opened this, and half not, because now there’s an opening to let others in on actual church teachings. And there’s the possibility that I’ll be admonished for this post, but I’ll put it here anyway. 

I’m also a Mormon, and there’s a very good reason - besides being married to a Catholic - that I choose to not be an active member.   I appreciate your views, but you don’t get to dictate what Mormon doctrine means to anyone but yourself. 

Did you have to sit in seminary every year and watch that hideous movie about how many cows a woman is worth?  Did you ever have leaders teach the lesson of how pre-marital sex makes women the equivalent of ABC gum, rather than just telling us it’s a sin?  Don’t presume to tell me what the church thinks about women  Does it honor them?  Yes, but only in what the church believes is their role.  

Take a look at the new ‘oaths’ for young men and young women, and tell me with a straight face that females have the same encouragement as males outside of their familial roles.

The boys statement starts “I am a beloved son of God, and he has a work for me to do.” For girls “I am a beloved daughter of heavenly parents, with a divine nature and eternal destiny”.  

How can you look at that and not see that girls and women are pigeonholed. Their entire destiny is to marry and have kids; that is their “work”.

As this relates to scouting, that the LDS Church wasn’t happy about the inclusion of gays, but that adding girls sent them over the edge... it has re-opened every insecurity and wound that I thought had long been scarred over. Yes, I’m angry, and yes, I’m riled up, and since you opened this can of worms I will absolutely speak up on the topic even if it’s critical of the church’s decisions. You don’t get to tell me that I’m misinformed when I lived it.

1 hour ago, MattR said:

@swilliams, I respect that you don't like how the LDS church wants to run their program. At the same time we need to respect their program. 

It's possible to respect what they're doing but still feel a bit hurt by their statement or diminished by how the program was presented.  I've done my best to refrain from what would be considered attack, while still expressing what recent events have meant to me, personally, particularly given some of the teachings I was raised with - and which are not appropriate to go into here.  In any case, it's less about how they are running their program, and more about the presentation.  I wish they would have given different examples of what young women can accomplish.

8 minutes ago, Saltface said:

Three to six camp outs per year and one long-term camping trip -- there was a second video released last Sunday with further details: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/broadcasts/face-to-face/?lang=eng&cid=email-OCA_CYD_111719_CTABroadcast

@swilliams You might find some satisfaction at the 34:50 mark.

  I am thrilled that the young women's camp will still be running.  Absolutely the best part of the young women's program for me during the time I was growing up.  I still have my YWMIA certificate somewhere.

I’ve been stewing on this statement about the BSA leaving the Church for a while now. Churches/religions exist to guide us in being closer to God. By extension, deserved or not, they have an inherent moral authority. Having a church leader say the BSA left them is essentially saying BSA stepped away from morality. With the high-profile acceptance of gay males and then females into the program, the implication becomes that allowing these youth to participate in scouting is immoral. Is it any wonder this subject gets heated?

It was an unfortunate statement that I don’t think was really meant the way it sounded, but from a female perspective it was somewhat hurtful nonetheless. Add to that the examples of the new program shown in the video, and it has me struggling to stay positive.  

‘Here, young women, we’ll show you a quorum (a word loaded with power and authority even outside the Church) of boys that are going out to do something new to most of them. You worship with your family and bake a cake.’   Good grief, it’s almost like saying ‘go make me a sammich’.

9 hours ago, The Latin Scot said:

Three things. 

First of all, we believe that sexual relations are ONLY to be had between a man and a woman who are legally married. So whether the individual is gay or straight doesn't make a difference - we still believe in the law of chastity, and we expect our membership to live the commandments related to it, regardless of how they perceive their personal orientation.

Next, including girls in Scouting isn't about inferiority or inclusion. It's about the fact that boys and girls are fundamentally different. But including girls in Scouting sends a message that boys and girls learn in the same way, and are for all intents and purposes identical. While the sexes are equal to each other in worth and importance, they are still DIFFERENT. So treating them in Scouting as though the learn in exactly the same way isn't quite aligned with the way we understand the divine differences between men and women. 

Finally, Scouting was not a priesthood program. It was the activity program for young men, and while we certainly and frequently tied the two together, they were still separate. Whether women hold the priesthood or not has nothing to do with it, and the very suggestion demonstrates that many people still have tremendous misunderstandings about our doctrines concerning priesthood, gender relationships, et cetera. But no, the issue was not that the BSA was part of a priesthood program (because it wasn't) - the issue has no 'REAL' cause, or subversive purpose. Quite simply, the church has grown out of Scouting. We have millions of youth all over the world. For people to claim we have made changes "to cater to millenials" or to "align with the times" shows that people in the U.S. really don't grasp how vast and widespread the Church is. We are a truly GLOBAL church, with members in hundreds of nations speaking hundreds of languages. We need to promote unity and cohesiveness amongst our members, and we need a program for children and youth that would serve all of them in the same way. Scouting just can't do that any more. Our exciting and wonderful new program can, so we are moving on from the BSA for the benefit of all our members.

That is the REAL reason we are changing our relationship with the BSA. Any other claims, suggestions or insinuations are either based on an incomplete knowledge of our beliefs or a misunderstanding of our intent. We love the BSA. We always will. But we need something different now. We should part as friends and will love and tender memories, not tainted resentment based on allegations based on hearsay or rumors. 

I added the non-practicing Mormon part to my post because I DO understand the doctrine.   I love the LDS Church, and am very grateful I was raised the way I was.  I fell in love with and married a Catholic though, and have taken a couple steps back, which gave me a slightly different perspective.  I also understand the need to feel like one has to defend the Church - there is plenty of misunderstanding and hostility out there, but Mormons tend to see any criticism as hostility, when it just isn't there. 

As to the claim that the Boy Scout program was not a priesthood program, you're right, in that Baden Powell never set it up that way.  I have four brothers, though, and can tell you from first hand experience that in our wards, scouting absolutely WAS being used that way.  You may not see it, since your ward(s) may not have utilized the program that way, but it did happen.

There is nothing in scouting that one can point to as not being a suitable method for learning for girls/young women.  Yes, of course the sexes are different, but scouting principles are human principles.  We're seeing the patrol method work beautifully in girl troops, and girls becoming good leaders.  They're learning outdoor skills with no trouble at all.  With girls having their own troops, your statement above doesn't really apply.  Girls are learning together in a group just as they do at camp. 

In any case, this whole argument is because of the gentle disparaging from Church leaders.  Making it mild doesn't excuse that it shouldn't have been said in the first place.

The LDS Church has revised it's stand on same sex couples being apostates.  They've also said that they understand that being gay isn't a choice, and that if a member is gay, that as long as they are not sexually active (with someone of the same sex, of course), that they can be members of the church.

So... I'm a bit puzzled as to why BSA's acceptance of gay leaders and youth was seen as 'not standing on principle', and why it was an issue for the Church.  If it wasn't the acceptance of gays, then was it the acceptance of girls?  We're to believe the Church doesn't see women as inferior.  The Church also hosts several events where all youth are invited.  So perhaps it wasn't the inclusion of girls after all.  Or was it?

The main issue, it seems to me, is that the Church was viewing the BSA as part of a priesthood program.  Since women don't hold the priesthood, I can see why the addition of girls would cause a problem, but I also see it as problematic that the Church leaders are saying the BSA abandoned them.  The BSA program was never set up to be the activities arm of the priesthood.  Just my $.02 as a (non-practicing) Mormon.

3 hours ago, ianwilkins said:

"With the 2013 Indonesian Education Curriculum in effect, it is compulsory for all Indonesian students to join the scout movement as scouting is officially one of the study units in the curriculum."

Thank you Wikipedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerakan_Pramuka_Indonesia

 

You've just found the solution to the BSA's woes,  lol.  In all seriousness, though, I've been pushing for our middle school to allow the troops in town to reach out to all potential scouts through either the 'Friday Folder' emails or the PTO.  There's also something called 'Enrichment Day', and while it's technically for exploring types of jobs, if they'll let the color guard of the high school take a slot, I don't see why not scouts.

Okay, on reflection, my post about not willingly working with the OP wasn't very scout-like. 

Rural has it own set of strengths, you need to look for those.  My neighbor showed me how to gut a deer (Wilderness Survival?).  His nephew - yes, many of the people in the town are related - showed me how to make an excellent jerky and mix meats for hot dogs (Cooking?).  This summer/fall, we joined a friend in harvesting her garden and canning (Gardening). 

How to develop leaders?  The point here is that regardless of where in the world you are, there are going to be folks who can have a positive impact on a scout.  It's up to you to find those strengths in people and outwardly recognize them.  Catch more flies with honey, yes?

10 hours ago, ParkMan said:

Your language is a bit inflammatory - so not sure you're really serious in this question.

I would believe that in any community - no matter how advantaged or disadvantaged, there are people of character.  I would think your task is to start with them.  Build a program that those people will want to be part of.  Then leverage that core program and expand it to include youth who are disadvantaged.

A bit?  Sorry, but as someone who lives part of the year in a very rural area which, if one were being nasty, could be described that way, I would not voluntarily choose to work with someone who had such disdain for those he/she was purportedly trying to help.

Seriously, OP, you need to do a LOT of self-reflection before trying to lead anyone.

I only got through 12 minutes before stopping (had to get my daughter from swim practice).  As soon as I heard “home-based, church-supported”, I cringed a little. Everyone will start with the best of intentions, but without a more concrete structure or plan I don’t see busy families creating something that will last longer than a few months at most.  Granted, there may be more laid out that I didn’t get to, but if that first twelve minutes is really all there is to it, I don’t see how it’s that much different than what a lot of us do with our kids on a regular day-to-day basis. 

23 hours ago, Cubmaster Pete said:

Sad... what did your cost end up being? Ours is $105

Troop stayed at $100.  Many of our parents don't care to be involved beyond coming to a COH and dropping their kid off for meetings and camping trips, so most of them have no idea that National raised their fees.  We're looking at a spring fundraiser to offset the increase, but nothing is set at this point.

Crew stayed at $125 for current members, and is $150 for new members.  We only have one new member who hasn't been involved in the past.  Other new members are sisters of existing crew members, so they were aware that the crew charges a bit more - mostly to offset the more high-adventure-type outings and to try and purchase our own supplies, rather than share with the Troop that's chartered by the same CO.  (Here's a good chuckle.  We were in the attic of the church rounding up gear for a backpacking/canoeing trip, and the Troop has index cards tied to the drawstrings on the tent bags.  They say things like "missing 2 tent pegs" and "rain fly missing", but one merely says "Stinks".  Haha.  No wonder the girls want their own gear.)

On ‎10‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 10:51 AM, Jameson76 said:

Getting the push to be 100% trained in the district, which is an admirable goal, so took the Merit Badge Counselor on-line training.  more just fluff, very little nuts and bolts.  That's the same comment most of our leaders made with the "NEW" YPT, it was more theory and convincing us that endangering children was bad and less about how to be compliant and "DO" YPT.  The old training was really applicable, DO this DON'T do this etc etc.  

When we do training for the Troop Leaders our emphasis is on them having the Scouts DO stuff.  When doing fire building we do not need Scouts to understand combustion, ignition points of materials, etc.  Maybe later, but let them strike some matches and see that logs do not in fact make kindling.

Focus on DOING, Focus on getting out in the woods and letting the Scouts be Scouts.

 

Had to laugh at this, particularly since our Venture crew girls were giving me the stink eye as I had them collect more and more dry grasses.  They were using a striker, and still barely managed to get the twigs going before the grass ran out.

As leaders, just like scouts, we learn best from watching others who are more experienced. Anything I might manage to do well is something I picked up from other scouters.  That makes it tough for those who don't have the advantage of having a strong unit with experienced leaders or those who weren't scouts themselves.  For units that aren't getting outside or who aren't as youth-led as they could be, it would be great if they could learn from watching others. 

I would love to see some combined outings, similar to having different troops at summer camp, but not huge gatherings like jamborees.  That's something unit leaders might be able to accomplish.  National isn't going to pay us any attention, but our DE's should, and they could help make that happen. 

 I was seriously surprised that a troop is trying to be formed in my parents’ town.  My initial thought was much more aligned with what others have posted above.  With what my mom was saying, I got the impression that even with a robust church program, there were still enough families that want their kid to potentially earn Eagle, that it was worth the effort.

(Of course, that brings up the issue of earning rank v. experiencing scouting, but that’s another topic, to some degree.)

Background... I was raised in a long-standing Mormon household.  As in, I have a great grandfather's journal about living in Illinois during the Mormon persecution, another grandfather who was part of the Mormon Battalion, and other ancestors who travelled with the handcarts from NY to UT. 

I was talking to my mom recently.  My parents live in a very tiny town smack in the middle of Utah, with a population that's 99.5% Mormon.   (My guesstimate.  Point is, very little religious diversity.)  Mom is on the city council.  She said they're looking into who could be a CO for a BSA troop because there are more than a few scouts who won't be able to make Eagle in time to beat the LDS withdrawal, and others who are going to be 'new' scouts who had brothers or cousins who earned Eagle and want the same thing.

When the church first announced it was going to start its own program, I had thought this would be the case, but I just wasn't hearing anything from any of my relatives.  Or anyone else for that matter.  I decided I had it completely wrong, and LDS youth were going away for good.  Now that things are wrapping up for the LDS scouts, I'm seeing what I thought I would be seeing last year.  Families who value scouting and still want their sons involved. 

Of course, it still remains to be seen what percentage of LDS families end up sticking with scouting, but if that tiny, very Mormon, population in Utah is an indication of what other towns are thinking, my theory (guess, wild estimate?) would be that we'll see 1/4 to 1/3 of the LDS scouts return and/or join up.

4 hours ago, T2Eagle said:

I doubt they can know the 2021 numbers yet.  The big unknown is how many LDS scouts and scouters will stick around.  It probably won't be a lot, but it doesn't have to be a really high percentage to make a significant difference.

Does anyone know if councils are making any concerted effort to get those folks to rejoin?  Of all the recruiting that could be done they would seem to be the most fruitful group to target.

Don't want to hijack, so I'll start another thread, but I have a little bit of insight here.