swilliams

Looks like this will go unsold at our troop garage sale. If anyone wants it, if you pay shipping it’s yours. If you’re Patriots’ Path Council, I’ll leave it for you at the scout shop. 

500 piece puzzle and retro-style cap. 

18 hours ago, MattR said:

Sounds like you helped someone clear out their garage. That was kind of you.

Seriously, if you can't figure out how to set the tent up, maybe you don't have all of, or the right parts.

We finally did figure it out. The poles go on the inside of the tent, into a triangular pocket in the corner, then they get tied at the top.  No rain fly. 

This is the first time I’ve ever seen a tent with the poles on the inside. 

 Our troop is holding a garage sale, and we were given the model tent shown in the title. I can’t find any information at all for this tent online. It doesn’t have a rain fly, and I’m not sure whether it was supposed to come with one or not.

The bigger issue is that it has two poles, but I don’t see anywhere on the tent to lock them in place.   The base of the tent has loops at the corners, but the polls just slide through the loops if I try to use them.

Anyone have any experience here? Is the tent worthless?

On 2/22/2022 at 7:54 AM, Eagledad said:

This is the problem. Venturing Crews are generally started by adults with the passion for the activities. And more often than not, these are adults burned out with the troop program. But, once the sons and daughters of those passionate adults move on, so do the parents and they leave a void of adult leadership with the same passion. The average life of a Venturing Crew in our district is 3 to 5 years. Troops that create Venturing Crews for their older scout program do a little better, but even they struggle to keep the program active. 

Barry

Yep. We have loved our experience with Venture Crew.   It was started by the parent of a Boy Scout who has three daughters.  His youngest is just about finished, though, and I don’t see the program surviving without him.

He is, hands down, the most dedicated and capable scout leader I’ve met.  Every cool tip or fact, and any slight leader ship ability I possess, is something I learned from him.  

 I’m still willing to be involved (my daughter is off to college in the fall), so that there is an adult female for this all girl crew, but there’s no way I can do what he did, and the younger girls who have joined recently have no parent involved at all.

6 hours ago, fred8033 said:

@swilliams ... well said ... I'm sure it's a common practice and well reasoned. 

Different habits might reflect ToopMaster versus ScoutBook.  ... You post into TroopMaster regularly but update BSA after COH.  We posted into ScoutBook regularly and scout's official record was current; no upload.

I really WANT to like Scoutbook, since it would simplify things to have only one system, but there's still no comparison between the kind of reports I can run on Troopmaster and what Scoutbook offers.  The 'Scouts Having/Needing' report is great, the 'Target First Class' advancement reports are sent to our ASPL of Advancement weekly, I can generate service hours reports for both scouts and unit with a couple quick clicks (we give bronze, gold, and silver service coins for 50 hours of service and up)... a multitude of things.

3 hours ago, fred8033 said:

!!!!   WHAT !!!!!     ....   Different topic.  ... Take the exclamation marks with a sense of humor.  

We always got the rank recognized by BSA in their records before the COH.  Heck, it was part of purchasing the ranks and MBs.  We either needed the paper invoice or the ScoutBook pick-list.

I have been able to purchase what we need by using the troop master report so far. A scout is trustworthy, I suppose.   Plus, I used to work at that particular scout shop, so I’m sure that helps, haha. 

 I’ve considered doing the batch upload to Scoutbook before trying to purchase items for the court of honor, but if anything changes it’s a little bit hard to keep up with.  We always have a whole bunch of last-minute blue cards handed in or rank advancements.   The words “court of honor“ seem to light a fire for some scouts!

1 minute ago, fred8033 said:

@InquisitiveScouter ... Good question.  ... sounds like a transition coordination issue now ... a software issue ... Legalistically, it's not an Eagle required until July 1, 2022.   So, do you apply the sentence to a current scout's advancement for something that is not yet required?   

IMHO ... in all situations like this ... favor the scout ... let the scout know the issue ... find a way to recognize the scout for advancing.  the scout earned it.

One solution ... post the scout's advancement directly into ScoutBook / ScoutNet.  Bypass TroopMaster during this transition window.

Sometimes the simplest solution gets overlooked. I’ll head right over to Scoutbook now, rather than do the batch upload we generally do after the June COH. 

Hi All.  This question is not about the merit badge itself, it's about total number of merit badges needed for each rank.  

We use Troopmaster software, so here's where there's a little confusion on my part, and I can't quite seem to find the info I need.  My 'Scouts BSA Requirements' book is from 2020, so I should probably splurge on the new edition.    Anyway, for Star, a scout needs six MB's total, with four of those being Eagle required.  For Life, a scout needs an additional 5 MB's, with three of those being Eagle required.  Both ranks combined - 11 MB's, 7 of them Eagle.

I have a few scouts who are Star (so have completed at least four Eagle MB's).  They then completed Cit. in Society, but the software still shows them as needing three more Eagle MB's instead of two.  

I can't imagine CIS doesn't count toward their rank.  The only thing making me even ask is that if the software was updated to include the MB, I would have thought that MB would show up as counting toward Life.  Very well could be a mistake on the part of Troopmaster's software developers.  Any insight?  

(Admittedly, I haven't done a deep search.  Trying to still "scout" while working 12-14 hour days.)

On 11/29/2021 at 9:43 AM, RandomScouter said:

https://www.nj.com/news/2021/11/2-nj-boy-scout-councils-selling-camps-to-pay-for-sexual-abuse-settlements.html

Patriots Path Council is selling Sabattis, their high adventure camp, and Jersey Shore Council is also selling some property. 

From the article: [quote]The Patriots’ Path Council council did not disclose the purchase price for the Sabattis Adventure Camp. They also did not name the buyer, except to say the purchaser is a neighbor of the camp who has “agreed to permit the council to use the property for at least five more years,” according to the letter from council leaders.[/quote]

One big problem - going back to 2020 - is that with the Covid restrictions placed on the camp by NY State, they are still not running a full program this summer.  We didn't go last year, and are not going this year, and are pretty broken up about it.  It's nice that the purchasers agreed to let council use the property for five years, but kind of pointless if council can't run a robust program.

Are any other council properties being successfully leased back?

We use 15.8 gallon plastic totes as patrol boxes.

A few of the newer scouts pack in duffles, but it never takes long before they switch over to backpacks. The summer camp we go to is the perfect 1/4 mile hike in. Other spots vary.  NoBeBoSco is probably the longest hike in we’ve done. Of course, backpacking trips not included. 

13 hours ago, MattR said:

I think I might hijack this thread again. The topic of trailers is a type of hot button issue for me. It's not the trailer so much as the mindset it creates. I'm fine with a trailer to make it easier for more scouts to get in fewer cars. What I dislike is the attitude of "we have a trailer, just bring all the gear we could possibly need." I'd talk about Thrifty and it just never resonated with anyone. What people want vs what they need. When I did a lot of backpacking I got really good at knowing the difference.

I forced the troop to dump the huge patrol boxes that did take four adults to move. We replaced those with a patrol tote on wheels that two scouts could easily deal with. I wanted to go one step further and do similar to what I did as a scout; divy up all the needed patrol gear at the meeting before we went camping and leave the rest behind. Nobody understood. I'd point out the cooking requirements that included making a list of gear needed and, again, it just never connected.

Now, I just feel like I'm getting in the way. I don't participate anymore, because of things just like this.

Okay, I HAVE to share this story now.  One of the new parents that came on the last camping trip brought two suitcases, two full-size pillows, and a massage table.  I am not even kidding, swear on my life.  She set it up in the middle of camp and lay there while everyone else was fixing lunch.  

8 hours ago, fred8033 said:

I've been in multiple troops.  One of the troops had a heavy trailer with heavy gear.  I never volunteered to pull that specific trailer even though I drove a Suburban and a 1500+ truck.   I did not want to damage my vehicle.  We had two guys with 2500+ trucks.   I was always grateful.  I pulled the other troop trailers, but those were light weight. 

It's all in gear selection.  Patrol boxes that required four 12 year old scouts or two adults to move.  I preferred light weight camping supplies.  Yes we use a trailer, but it doesn't need to be a beast.

I hijacked the original purpose of the thread.  My apologies.

Not at all.  Nice to be having a scouting discussion.

33 minutes ago, scoutldr said:

Just a suggestion...ditch the trailer and get back to basics.  

There’s a debate, for sure. 

We would need more parents to camp if we didn’t have the trailer. This trip we had six adults and ten scouts. Newly crossed over, so more parents than usual.  Between patrol boxes, backpacks, food/coolers and scouts, we were very pressed for space.  If we hadn’t had as many parents as we did, we wouldn’t have been able to transport. And I don’t know about other troops, but we have a really hard time getting parents to stay for a meeting or send out an email, let alone camp. 

That said, Venture Crew doesn’t have a trailer. But we’re also a small al-girl crew and our youngest is 14. Big difference between crew and troop in terms of who is ready for mainly backpacking trips. We also buy a lot of freeze-dried meals for the crew (we’ll be using them our next trip - 14 miles in the Burroughs Range in NY), and they get expensive.  Admittedly there are alternatives.

Would be interesting to see how many have trailers and how many do without.  

4 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Primary qualification 🤣😝😎

Can confirm. We are the only family besides the SM who can pull the trailer, and my husband has done so for the last five trips. This past trip, our newly-licensed daughter needed our trailer-pulling car to get herself to Venture Crew while we were camping. Our only other vehicle is a stick shift. 

We ended up having to load patrol boxes into a couple cars. Parents now have a new appreciation for our towing abilities. 🤣

45 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

Mostly, the adult leader application gives unit leader "approval" powers to the charter org (or representative) and to the SE (or representative) to approve leader positions.  Those two signatures defines who has authority.  Both signatures because any adult leader becomes a representative of both BSA and the charter org.  

At the same time, BSA documents the job to appoint unit leaders with the committee chair.  

https://troopleader.scouting.org/committee-chairman/#:~:text=The troop committee chair appoints,are delegated%2C coordinated and completed.

IMHO, the key is it's the CC's real job is to build agreement with all the unit adults (COR, CC, ASM, MC, etc).  That includes how transitions are done and who will be filling those roles.  It's one of the CC's most important jobs.

 

I also found the following, saying the CO selects leaders, which seems a little weird, only because our CO has next-to-nothing to do with our troop.  18-981.jo (scouting.org)  It makes much more sense that the Committee Chair is responsible.   

I have new info to add...  no one else wants to do the job, apparently.  My husband said 'no way', and said the third ASM had indicated to him in the past that he had "zero desire" to take on that role.  As much as I would love to, I firmly believe the boys need a male in the role.

If this particular ASM is the only one willing to step into the role, then the maybe the focus needs to shift to how best to make sure he gets the needed training - which has been lacking on all fronts for a few years, including committee, SM, ASM, and PLC - and that he gets the support to build the troop back to where we were when our boys first joined. 

It also seems that we're still struggling to get back to a 'normal' level of activity post-Covid., so that's not helping.

10 hours ago, mrjohns2 said:

That stinks. Well, why not have this same conversation with the CC? Adult volunteer staffing is the CC’s role. If I had a SM say this, I’d hope I would say something about not hearing it discussed with the CC yet. 
 

Don’t assume it is final. Talk it over with the CC and committee. 

I had a conversation last night with the Committee Chair.  I was shocked when she said this particular ASM was going to be our new Scoutmaster.  She was shocked when I told her there had definitely NOT been a conversation with the other ASMs (nor any other registered adult, as far as I can tell).  And it wasn't discussed with her.  

So next question, since the outgoing Scoutmaster has tried to do an end-run around everyone involved, aside from the person he is trying to appoint: can you give any advice as to best way to tell them both that there needs to be a different process here?  Just say, "There needs to be a different process here"?  

After a very rocky start with the new Scoutmaster a few years ago, we managed a decent working relationship, but here we go again.

I just found out from our Committee Chair that the SM told her a particular ASM would be taking over as the next Scoutmaster.  Is this the way it's supposed to work?  That the SM just picks someone and informs the rest of the Troop, including the CC?  The CC told me she assumed he had talked it over with the ASMs, but one of the ASMs is my husband, and he said there was no discussion.  In fact, my husband and I had privately discussed whether he had any interest in being Scoutmaster, or whether the third ASM (not the one "selected") might be willing to step into the position, as he's been very good in the role of ASM.

I really like this person, and he and my husband are good friends, but he's frequently away for days at a time with his job, he backs out of plans all the time, he hasn't been on a camping trip in forever, he comes to maybe one or two Troop meetings a month...  I don't know.  He's a really great guy, he has some great ideas and has helped organize a VERY cool aviation day in the past.  He's an Eagle Scout.  But coming off of three years of 'managing a decent working relationship'... I'm concerned.  How much say do the Committee Chair, the committee in general, and the troop parents have in who leads the Troop?

We camped at Resica Falls Scout Reservation this weekend.  Opted for cabin camping because we had all of our newest scouts camping, but only a single First Class scout (my own son who just barely turned 14).  We hiked, but the reservation also had a life-sized foosball pen and a gaga pit, which the scouts loved.  The rest of the time they spent hanging out in hammocks and exploring one of the many, many streams that feed into the river.

In March I ran an orienteering event that I'd been working on for a VERY long time.  Making the map took forever (and took a lot of trips out to the area, so I got lots of outdoor time).  Of course - always the way things seem to go - I found open-source software that helps you make an orienteering map once mine was 90% done.  Parents manned each 'control' (checkpoint) since this was our first ever time trying the event.  Staggered the start times and sent out three teams of scouts.   They had a blast!!  The youngest scouts were very excited to be heading out to the woods without adults accompanying them.

We're headed to Gettysburg next month, then Citta Scout Reservation near the Jersey Shore for cowboy action shooting and sea kayaking in June.  Also in June I'm planning a 'Scouting Experience Day' - part recruiting event and partly something fun for the scouts and the community to do.  Going to have two teams of scouts have a trebuchet building contest early in the day, then will use them as part of the community event.  

19 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

 

@InquisitiveScouter,

Pretty much. At the town hall meeting I went to, I made comments and folks in the know, or should have been in the know, were either shocked or shocked and angered that I knew as much as I did on the trial.

When discussing matters from the trial, specifically the Churchill Plan and their plan to limit the number of councils, get rid of "excess" camps, and cap the upper age limit to 18 for all programs with a council level volunteer, I was told I was spreading rumors.

My troop thinks I have mystical powers because I know so much before anyone else does. 

All because I came here a few years ago hoping to learn how to create a good program and be an effective leader.

(Or was it because I couldn’t figure out how to print blue cards from Troopmaster?)

From a legal standpoint, for the LDS church I'm wondering if they have more of a liability due to the way they "call" (appoint) their leaders?  

50 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

So, if Plan 5.5. fails and the judge orders a BSA-only cramdown, which councils are most likely to go into bankruptcy first?

Hard to say, but what we CAN say is how many councils as of August 17 are named defendants in lawsuits.

https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/cb5441eb-c31d-4917-979b-f9bfc64b4833_189.pdf

All 17 councils in NY are facing, at minimum, 20+ lawsuits. Greater New York has hundreds. You can easily assume all 17 are in Chapter 11 the day after a BSA-only cramdown.

Ditto the 22 councils in California, even the relatively small Western Los Angeles (4 lawsuits).

Aloha Council's gone too, not interestingly because of Hawaii but because of the 150+ Guam claims.

Question about how the lawsuits are listed.  If a council shows "John Does 1-10", does that mean there are ten lawsuits filed under that claim number?  If a second listing shows "Corp. 1-100"?

On 8/26/2021 at 10:02 PM, Eagle94-A1 said:

I'm there with you. My only advice is:

FOCUS ON YOUR SCOUTS! (emphasis, not shouting at ya.)

I am once again involved at the district, for the moment,  because my sons wanted me to run the district camporee so it would be fun. But once camporee is done, so am I at the district level.

The council can merge with neighboring councils next year, sell/return to trusts the camps after my camporee for all I care (although I will miss the local one tremendously),  but my focus is on my Scouts.

As to why I am active here and a few other places, one reason is that I get more info here than from my council. Sad when you find out on Scouter.com what is going on and tell your DE, and he is absolutely clueless.

Good luck.

That last paragraph is what brought me here a few years back. Yes, a wealth on information here. 

Our council has still declined to tell us the amount we will owe, though we didn’t get a letter telling us what the fee increase would be (with an emphasis on what a bargain it is).  To be fair, it does seem they are keeping council fees low compared to what they were last year. 

I did not get a reply to my email pointing out that there is no longer a NDA keeping council from letting us know what the damages will be. Unsurprised. Husband said I shouldn’t have sent it, but what are they going to do?  Fire me?  🤣

15 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

To further elaborate on this: the fact that the Greater New York Council released its number ($9 million) and the Grand Canyon Council released their number ($7 million) tells you the "it's behind a NDA" excuse is now officially garbage. Those two councils were on the Ad Hoc Committee of Local Councils. The GNYC attorney was the lead attorney for the group. If there was ANY legal reason prohibiting release of the numbers, surely the lead attorney for the Local Councils would know and have told his own council not to release the number.

As I said: councils that still insist the NDA is in effect are either a) lying b) stupid and/or c) believe(oh so wrongly) the NDA is still in effect.

Let me put it another way: if the NDA was in effect and it in ANY way impacted or impaired mediation and/or the bankruptcy proceedings, every council that blabbed would be subject to contempt of court for violating the judge's mediation and confidential order/orders.

If your council tells you "We cannot due to an NDA" point out that those councils did and that therefore clearly the NDA is no longer an issue.

Thank you. I told our committee chair I was going to email them and call them out on this. Feeling a bit pissy this morning. I admitted it may not be scout-like to call BS on their email. The CC said it’s not scout-like to lie. Haha.