9muckraker7

I think the feeling of respect ties closely with the bond of brotherhood that scouting often brings. When I see someone else in uniform I would feel both respect and sympathy for the man or woman, as I feel that both myself and the person in uniform have shared common joys in scouting. I just came back from NOAC, and I was amazed to see so many people in scouting uniforms, and with that came such a warm feeling of respect and brotherhood of which everyone at the conference seemed to share with each other. When I came to realize this brotherhood of scouts, I came to realize how truly magical and worthwhile my scouting experience has been. I'm sure many of you in these forums have had similar experiences, or for a better word, revelations.(This message has been edited by 9muckraker7)(This message has been edited by 9muckraker7)

I didn't know where to post this, so I guess this forum is a safe enough to post it... I know of a troop whose rather strict scoutmaster isn't very well liked among the troop, both by the boys in the troop and by the adult leaders. Though he hasn't done anything to get himself in trouble (anything against BSA policy), nobody really wants him to retain his position of scoutmaster. The Charter Organization Rep. is probably the only one most opposed to him being scoutmaster, and the COR also realizes that he is in a high enough position that he can do something about the "renegade" scoutmaster. The only problem with this is that the scoutmaster is actually the president of the charter organization, and if the COR chooses to speak out against the scoutmaster, the scoutmaster will use his power as the president of the chartered organization to remove the COR from the troop. Is there anything that can be done about this???!!

I just googled your question and I came up with this webpage that may have the answer: http://www.pacificforest.org/news/pdf/spring2001.pdf

Wash or don't wash--This really is a matter of how one looks at it. I'll use the analogy of the "ragged old flag" poem many have probably heard once or twice in their life. One can fly a clean and new flag to honor and to glorify his/her country, or one can continue to fly the same flag day in and day out, with respect for the strife the flag and his/her country has gone through. Do you want to wear the sash to look presentable, to demonstrated the honor and respect that you have for the organization of the OA, or do you want to reflect the service you've given, not caring what others think, so that you may be reminded and proud of the service you've given? It's solely up to you. "Ragged Old Flag" I walked through a county courthouse square, On a park bench an old man was sitting there. I said, Your old courthouse is kinda run down. He said, Naw, it'll do for our little town. I said, Your flagpole has leaned a little bit, And that's a Ragged Old Flag you got hanging on it. He said, Have a seat, and I sat down. Is this the first time you've been to our little town? I said, I think it is. He said, I don't like to brag, But we're kinda proud of that Ragged Old Flag. You see, we got a little hole in that flag there When Washington took it across the Delaware. And it got a bad rip in New Orleans With Packingham and Jackson tuggin' at its seams. And it almost fell at the Alamo Beside the Texas flag, but she waved on though. She got cut with a sword at Chancellorsville And she got cut again at Shiloh Hill. There was Robert E. Lee, Beauregard, and Bragg, And the south wind blew hard on that Ragged Old Flag. On Flanders Field in World War I She got a big hole from a Bertha gun. She turned blood red in World War II She hung limp and low a time or two. She was in Korea and Vietnam. She went where she was sent by her Uncle Sam. She waved from our ships upon the briny foam, And now they've about quit waving her back here at home. In her own good land she's been abused -- She's been burned, dishonored, denied and refused. And the government for which she stands Is scandalized throughout the land. And she's getting threadbare and wearing thin, But she's in good shape for the shape she's in. 'Cause she's been through the fire before And I believe she can take a whole lot more. So we raise her up every morning, Take her down every night. We don't let her touch the ground And we fold her up right. On second thought I DO like to brag, 'Cause I'm mighty proud of that Ragged Old Flag. Written by Johnny Cash

Interesting that this thread was closed before anyone replied to it... I agree with Scoutingus in that there should be some sort of knot recognizing those scouters who are merit badge counselors; however, like other service knots, they should be given to those who have distinguished themselves over the years. Most likely, a merit badge counselor deserving of such an award would be very much involved in his/her council. Like other service awards, though, earning such an award should not be a conscious endeavor...

Amen, scoutldr. I know several "eagle scouts" who have absolutely no interest in scouting or camping or "setting a good example," and I think that shouldn't be. The requirement of "living the scout oath and law in one's everyday life" should be elaborated a bit, so that only those truly deserving of the rank can get the award.

This is probably against national policy or something but I'll mention it anyway... I once saw a scout wearing his rank badges on the back of his merit badge sash. It seemed like a pretty good idea..

That's easy to say for someone from New Jersy, there being no "feral dogs" in or around New Jersy forests. Sure there are plenty of bears and enraged turkeys and rabid raccoons, but feral dogs certainly are something different. Bears usually only disturb campers when they smell food, and they live a good distance from the camps. "Feral dogs" (i'm guessing that's a euphemism for wolves) travel in packs and they are very defensive. I don't really know what to say about this particular camp, other than to have the camp ranger (who would have access to a firearm) closely situated to the part of the camp where these wolves have been a threat to the wellbeing of the campers.

AHHHH!!!! AHHH!!! AAAAHHH!!! I was hoping that this incident would remain at low-profile for a while, as I learned about this Sunday night at NOAC as I read a newspaper left on a table... In fact, I was about to """""announce""""" that in this forum, but after much brooding, I decided that it would be better not to. I am in no way affiliated with the Western Region Chief or the National OA committee; i'm simply an arrowman expressing his views. As I do believe I know a little more than what the media seems to know regarding the topic, I will choose not to disclose any specific information in an effort to preserve the truth (I'm not tooo sure that what I know is the truth). However, I will say this. The media has a tendency to stretch the truth whenever possible, to exaggerate with little regard to the truth so long as it produces a good story. Such hyperbole often leads to many misconceptions about stories, and these must be avoided. But how can we avoid these misconceptions that the media almost always brings? Try talking to someone who knows or has close connections to the immediate past Western Region Chief, and they will probably have a more accurate story of exactly what happened. That's what I did, and that's when I realized that the media did in fact make this scout seem like a truly perverted and sick freak. I FIRMLY BELIEVE THAT THE ORDER OF THE ARROW HAS DONE EVERYTHING NECESSARY TO PRESERVE THE GOOD ASPECTS OF BOY SCOUTS AND TO CONTINUE TO PROVIDE TO THE ARROWMEN A QUALITY PROGRAM, ESPECIALLY DURING NOAC. I do not at all criticize the Order of the Arrow in trying to cover up the incident because it truly was in the best interest of the OA. Simply put: How many of you actually appreciated hearing about such an incident? How many out there who are just finding out about the western region chief incident feel good and proud of the order of the arrow and boy scouting??!! NOAC was meant to be a joyous event, and indeed it was. "Hiding the truth" from so many arrowmen by removing the newspapers from ISU meant that they'd have a better time at NOAC. Sometimes the truth isn't always pretty, and it's best if certain matters are taken care of more privately. When i found out about the incident, I was both shocked and apalled, but I didn't let that keep me from celebrating scouting with my 6500 other brothers this past NOAC. I congratulate the NOAC committee on a job well done, for making my first NOAC truly unforgetable: the pinnacle of my scouting experience.

Oh dear... something must be done about this "council in turmoil." I think it may be time to take the issue to a higher level, if anyone who opposes the SE would have their membership revoked... My best advice would be to get a few of those dedicated leaders who have had their membership revoked (because of a disagreement they might have had with the SE) to write a letter or something like that to a national or regional officer, and ask them to step in and resolve the situation. Present the national or regional officer not only with the reasons why you think this SE is abusing his power, but also with the "state of turmoil" that the council has ben in with the leadership of the SE.

"Any ideas who, at the council level, would be the right person to talk to?" Have you been to your council's website? That should be of some use in finding contact information. http://www.twinriverscouncilbsa.org/trc-phone.html If in doubt, contact your Scout Executive about this issue.

Maybe the resident council camp disallows non-adult supervised patrol camping for some reason (liability purposes, perhaps). This doesn't mean that the boys still cannot camp in a local county or state forest or park or campground. The way I see it, the council does not have jurisdiction over those state-owned areas, and therefore should not have much say in allowing or disallowing the boys to camp there. Maybe the state or county regulations would also disallow this, but I think that's highly unlikely. If the council did in fact completely disallow individual non-adult-supervised patrol camping, then there would most definitely be some sort of loophole in "overiding" this decision. Maybe the patrol members of a certain patrol can go camping, just not as a patrol, but rather as a group of friends having a fun camping trip... TECHNICALLY, the presence of a "patrol" would not be there IF the boys did not bring their boy scout uniforms or their patrol flag...

Let me put aside the FACT that the SPL should indeed possess good leadership skills and doing so, ALWAYS set a good example in his actions. I do not think that it should be the SPL's job to get people to stand in a straight line and do other things like that...that should be left for their patrol leaders to deal with. If for some unexplanable reason you do not either remove the SPL from his position OR put him through leadership training, then at least try to instruct him to work more with the patrol leaders for them interact with the patrol members to take care of any problems with them, the patrol members, that the SPL might have. Otherwise, I think that some people are indeed natural born leaders, while some people aren't. While I cannot say anything about this young man in particular, I can say that his experience in leading his troop in the past should have taught him a thing or two about a thing or two. The way he deals with problems now directly reflects how he has dealt with problems in the past. If his tenure in the troop and his holding several leadership positions has taught him how to deal with problems with other scouts, then he shouldn't be the SPL. The other scouts look to him for leadership, and if the other patrol members see him dealing with scouts in such a way, they might get the wrong idea.

"By the way, I don't think there is such a thing as too sharp a knife. An important part of working with my son on knife skills is teaching him to sharpen his knife. If done correctly it will end up very sharp." --Good point. I must have been thinking of a switchblade or one of those large hunting or self-defense knives with a serated edge or something like that when I commented about a knife being too sharp...

This should help: http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Trails/2016/ This site (scouter.com) should have definitely already gotten the three-fleur award. If not, someone should nominate it...

Hey I just stumbled upon a theory (somewhat impractical) that just might work! The theory is that mosquitoes find their way to humans (and other animals) by the amount of carbon dioxide concentration in the air from which we respire (if that is a word). Therefore, if you could somehow MISGUIDE the mosquitoes away from you, using dry ice (frozen CO2), it just might work! If you were to use dry ice for refrigeration purposes earlier in your camping trip, you could find some use in disposing of it...

After reading about William Hillcourt on this site, I find it apalling that there is no mention of him in latest edition of the Scout Handbook. ...Just thinking out loud...

Heyyy welcome to the campfire! It's good to have people with such devotion and experience active in these forums.

After he has gotten his "whittlin' chip" in Cub Scouts, I think it would be a good idea for him to have his very own official Cub Scout pocketknife. Still, after he has gotten his "totin' chip" in Boy Scouts, the scout should be allowed to use whatever knife he wants; HOWEVER, it should be limited to something reasonable, like an official Boy Scout pocketknife or Swiss Army knife. Sheath knives should be used sparingly. A leatherman tool should be given to a scout with a bit more experience in dealing with knives. Personally, I think that any scout who has earned the totin' chip and thereby demonstrated appropriate usage of a knife should be trusted with any type of folding pocketknife. Still, it is up to the parent and/or Scoutmaster to decide how much freedom/responsibility in dealing with knives they should bestow upon their scout. Before letting a scout use or carry a blade that may seem a bit too large or too sharp, one must ask the scout why he would need to use such a large blade. They must make sure he understands the inherant danger would come with using a knife. They must make it clear that any kind of knife should not be taken to school, or that such a tool should never be used as a weapon--to threaten or to hurt another person.

Interesting thoughts... The only commercial bug "repellent" that I've ever used that was the least bit effective was a bug spray with a high concentration of DEET. Other than that, my personal experience has shown me that the only thing that really is guaranteed to work in repelling bugs would have to be smoke-- from a campfire; from a punk stick; from a cigarette; from a candle. It's only the smoke that works, and not the natural citronella scent or anything like that... I have heard, but I'm a little skeptical, that ferns are a natural bug repellent. I once participated in a wilderness survival overnighter, and I used ferns as my bedding... they seemed to work very well in repelling bugs (I had very few mosquiotoe bites and no ticks on me after that night).

Hope this helps: http://www.scoutstuff.net/scout3.html (item 371)...

Have you tried dryer lint? A good size ball of that stuff works extremely well and ignites literally with the touch of a spark. Also there is something called "charcloth," which is little 1 inch squares of cotton material (an old t-shirt will do very well). I've never tried this method, as it requires too much preparation... Have you tried using magnesium flakes? Sporting goods stores or any other store that sells Boy Scout hot-sparks should sell magnesium blocks. You'd take an old pocket knife and shave off a good amount of magnesium flakes; these also ignite with the touch of a spark. Here's an EXCELLENT website dealing with tinder and firestarters... http://lynx.dac.neu.edu/m/mbennett/tinder_thoughts.html

Surely, this was simply an unfortunate accident. Such an accident could have very well happened if the kid was on a bike, or simply crossing a street. My condolences to him and his family.

I don't see what everyone's problem with gays in scouting is. No, I am not gay, nor do I agree with the homosexual lifestyle, but I think that tolerance should be a quality of all scouts. Let us remember that a scout is friendly, courteous, kind, and reverent, and respects all people and their beliefs or lifestyles differing from his/hers. Suuuure this is a bit idealistic, as no one can be such a "flawless" scout, but tolerance doesn't mean AGREEING with something, it just means putting up with it. We've all put up with some pretty ignorant, arrogant, or incompetent people in the past, so what is to prevent us from putting up with homosexuals in scouting, many of whom are indeed trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent people?

I think I got this quote from one of these forums... "The Constitution was never meant to prevent people from praying; its declared purpose was to protect their freedom to pray." I agree with that wholeheartedly...