Eagle94-A1

Unfortunately BSA often has contradictory language in its various documents.

We did a canoe trip last year. this is what we did.

1) Swim tests for all.

2) 3 or 4 meeting to work on strokes, how to pack, etc.

3) Picked a nice, easygoing river to go on.

4) One of the ASMs went and check it out the week before the trip

5) TRIP TIME!

Only complication was that it rained the week between the ASM's scouting expedition and the trip itself. The island we wre suppose to sleep on was underwater

Someone posted a comment about how we are working with "Raw Materials" and that Scouts living by the Oath and Law are the "Finished Product." I gotta agree with that. I attended an Eagle COH recently and was reminded of that. I was reminded that the Eagle was once a smart-alec know-it-all, who wanted to get Eagle and move on. That brought back memories of his AOL and Crossover Ceremonies. Nobody thought he would last long with his attitude.

But over the past 6 years, the Eagle changed. He was molded and mentored.He was not focused only on getting Eagle and being done. He was having fun and giving back. He served on day camp staff for several years, and to be honest I completely forgot about the smart-alec, know -it-all that he was until it was mentioned at his ECOH. Today he is the OA chapter chief, a JASM in his troop and a member of the Venturing crew.

My memory gets foggy with age, but that process of maturing happens with those who are really into Scouting. If I thought long and hard, I could probably give hundred of such examples of Scouts I've known over the years.

Only in name are they a troop. As you can guess, this is the problem troop I've discussed previously. The very sad thing for me is I know the struggle the original SM and 2 ASMs had getting it to be Boy-led. I helped train the SM, worked with the boys via MBs and OA, and mentored the SM. 5 years of getting it together, to the point where the troop almost didn't need the adults hanging around, only to have the new SM screw it up. And because the SM's son is the biggest troublemaker, ask anyone who is or has been in the troop except SM Dad, nothing is done to correct his behaviour.

Sometimes I wonder if the "Peter Principle" is going on in regards to the scout, i.e. get him to Eagle so that he and dad can quit.

So who's going to appoint him TG? The BFF SPL? Totally disconnected SM? I guess if I was that boy' date=' I would make it very clear to the SPL that until that troop gets its act together, the den will be shopping around for another troop. In the mean time, it might serve the troop well to start learning about servant leadership. Stosh[/quote']

 

 

The person appointing him is his totally disconnected Dad who happens to be SM. Dad appoints all PORs "becasue the same scouts kept getting elected and now everyone gets a chance at being a leader."

Someone asked how someone who does not live by the scout oath and law, yet advances affects others. In my experience is VERY negatively. The bullying, year-round soccer playing "scout" I mentioned previously is an example. As soon as my son heard that the scout was going to be appointed troop guide for my son's den when they crossed over, my son said he definately didn't want to join the troop since the troublemaker would be in charge of him.

Ok back.

Up until about 7 years ago, the local scout camp where two of the three districts have their camporees was really neglected by the council PTB. Improvements were done by the individual troops and OA chapters. So troops would spend their own money making improvements on "their" campsites: water spigots, shelters, tables, fire rings, etc. Troops, and to a lesser degree their feeder packs, are very protective of "their" campsite. Best example of that would be the council level Cub Scout camp out at the camp where 1 pack refused to allow anyone to share "their" campsite. Thankfully it was the smallest one and could only hold one troop.

Same with the primitive camp that is used for our council camporees. Council basically said if you wanted a water spigot, you either paid for everything involved in the process; or dig the trenches, lay the pipe, etc yourself.. So troops were assigned campsites within their district areas, and they paid in some manner to get the water spigots in place.

People are very protective of their assigned areas. My troop folded for about 6 years, and a newer troop took over the campsite. When the troop was reestablished, they wanted the campsite that they paid for back. They were willing to allow the other troop to use the spigot, but since they paid for the water spigot, and went out the weekend prior to the camporee to prep the area (cut grass, kill ant colonies, and spray for ticks, etc) they were not willing to give the other troop the campsite.

Unless they allow troops to stay in the areas they have maintained for all these years, I see issues there.

Our problem was (is) that the districts were staffed by a tight circle of people who rarely let people in. This made folks who did volunteer to help, or who were asked by these folks to help, feel like they didn't belong. After they volunteer -- and doing an exceptional job -- they were thanked but not made part of that inner circle.

One of the issues we have is that on the Cub Scout side, the tight circle is essentially 3 people; the activities chair who has driven folks nuts with her micromanaging everything she is in charge of to the point she drives people away, and the Day Camp CD and PD who are trying to build and mend bridges whom the activities chair has upset.

Webeloree is considered a Boy Scout event because A) lots of troops staff it B) recruiting tool for troops, and C) activities chair has no involvement with Boy Scouts.

Still working on the benefits and disadvantages on the Boy Scout side of things. I thing that will be a major problem is campsite assignments at camporees, both on the district and council level. More on that in a bit.

What's a Troop MB Counselor? I thought all MBCs were district positions.

Slapper,

1) WELCOME TO DA FORUMS!!!!! ( And yes, I am screaming at you in joy for finding us. )

2) Must have been one heck of a good Crossover Ceremony your local OA did to get him interested in the OA already. For that I say your OA chapter did an AWESOME job!

3) I'd tell your son to focus on mastering the Tenderfoot, Second Class, and First Class Scout (T-2-1) skills before worrying about the OA. In order to be in the OA, you have to be First Class, have 14 or 15 days and nights of camping, including 1 long term camp (summer camp)

4) Also tell him to live by the Scout Oath and Law. His peers will notice and will elect him. BUT do not get discourage if he doesn't get in the first, heck even the second, time. I got in the 3rd time I was up for election.

5) For you, I'd focus on training.

6) Good luck!

My question to you is how do the athletes act when the coaches are not around? In my younger days I've been around student-athletes who acted just as bad as some of the Scouts, sometimes worse. Arrogant, egotistical, rules don't apply to me attitude, damaging property, causing fights, bullying, ad nauseum. Worse part of two jobs was dealing with the athletes.

Do I see a spoiled brats in Scouting, yes I do. I also see them in everyday life in all endeavors,including sports. Heck the worse "scout" I know does soccer year-round in various programs.

Sorry you feel that you cannot recommend Scouting. I'd pick Scouting over sports any day. Scouting allows youth a chance at becoming self-reliant, to do things, make decisions, lead, etc. Scouting allows youth to screw up in a safe environment so that you can learn from the mistakes.

In sports, adults tell them what top do and how to do it. If you are not as good as others on your team, you get little to no chance to participate. And if you lose, sometimes the coaches go overboard with the "motivation" sessions IMHO.

So if we are suppose to use the BSA's waiver for every trip, then why do we have Part A of the Annual Health and Medical Form, which states "Informed Consent, Release Agreement, and Authorization" and has wording that is identical to the waiver. Plus it also has the photo release added to it.

In all honesty, this is extremely frustrating. We need to carry 2 sets of forms with the same information? Ridiculous.

I don't know how pro pay grades/scales work (maybe E92 or BP can comment) but one reason for large districts with multiple DEs is it creates a justification for Sr. DE and District Director positions. This has the benefit of keeping experienced pros in the district' date=' but also (I'm sure) increases salaries.[/quote']

 

Ok therse are the various positions that I'm familiar with.

 

Paraprofessional: Various from place to place. Usually folks assignment a specific duty while either waiting to meet the requirements to become a DE, get training before becoming a DE, or waiting for a position to open. Duties I've seen parapros do are SCOUTREACH and program. It's being proposed that a parapro assist a DE if my district merges with 2 others and we will be geographically too big to only have 1 person cover it.

 

District Exec. Entry level executive. Covers a district and a few council level responsibilities.

 

Senior DE. If memorys serves minimum 3 or 5 years experience and given a few additional council level responsibilties.

 

District Director. A SDE who has a DE or 2 reporting to them. I was told the position is used for those folks who are ready to be a Field Director, but there are no opening yet.

 

Field Director middle manager who has X number of DEs and DDs reporting to them.

 

Director of Field Service larger councils that have 2 or more FDs with have a DFS to for them to report to.

 

Scout Exec: CEO of the council.

 

other positions I've seen/ heard:

 

Exploring Exec DE for Exploring

 

Learning for Life Exec

 

Camping Director

 

Program Director

 

Director of Camping Services.

SP,

You'd be surprised. In my neck of the woods, there is still the mentality that 'Cubs don't need to camp." Yep heard that from a 4 bead WB21C SM, Vigil Honor member of the council camping committee. So Cub Scouts is an afterthought.

Give you an example. Since 2010, there has been a "Cub World" with Cub Specific activities and camping area that has been held in conjunction with the council's Boy Scout camporee. I don't remember ever getting the Cub World info at the same time as the camporee info. Reason being that that not much emphasis is placed on the Cub event. With the exception of the 2010 event, it has lacked professional and volunteer support as all emphasis has been placed on camporee. Cub world chief has begged and pleaded for additional help and resources to no avail.

Another example was a Cub Scout event in the fall. It was an epic fail due to lack of council support. Heck people are still waiting on the patches for the event! When folks inquired about them, were told sorry, the company they ordered the patches from shut down, and since the event was last year, the books are closed so no patches. Only public shaming on facebook got the council to finally order the patches 5 months later.

As for Cub Scout resident camp, it too is an afterthought. While camp promotions focus on Boy Scout summer camp, none is done for ub Scout resident camp. In fact most of the time the information on resident camp comes AFTER Memorial Day, when most packs in this area close down for the summer. As for staffing, from the accounts I've been told, the summer camp staff are not enthused about working with the Cubs. They try and get volunteers who should be working directly with the Cub Scouts to run events. As for activities with the exception of the climbing wall and staying in tents, it's day camp revisited.

SM2,

1) WELCOME TO DA FORUMS!

2) I provided links to two uniform links, the Inspection Sheets and current uniform price guide below.

3) I am going to assume that he went with the current issue, tan and green Webelos uniform option. What needs to be done is the following

A) He will need a new, green Boy Scout hat.

B) He will need new green shoulder loops

C) He will need a new Boy Scout green belt.

D) He will need a Boy Scout Handbook

E) He will need new green on tan numbers

F) Depending upon the troop, he will either be issued or need to purchase a troop neckerchief.

4) Webelos Badge is removed as it is Cub Scout rank. However the Arrow of Light Award can be worn.

5) The links below only show the current uniform, not any previous issued uniforms. They are still valid, but your SON (emphasis) may need to talk to some "old fogeys" to get the info.

6) As I mentioned above, your son should now start taking responsiblity for his uniform, advancement, etc. It can be hard on parents, even those of us who know better , but we need to start letting go.

7. Hope this helps.

http://www.scoutstuff.org/retail/docs/uniform-inspection-sheets

http://www.scoutstuff.org/media/content/docs/pdfs/6590UnifTowerPrcChgesFNL.pdf

Fehler,

Are the campouts something the packs can do on their own? I haven't read all of the requirements yet.

ALSO I do know that for those units that cannot camp, specifically LDS packs but maybe a few others, the information being given to RT commissioners is that Troops can do day activities that do the camping activitities, i.e. campfire, cooking, etc. instead. Also said that family camping would meet the requirements too.

So I'm assuming, and you know what can happen when you AsUMe , that that option will be available for everyone.

Ideally' date=' yes, but a lot of troops would be angry with someone "poaching" their crossovers.[/quote']

 

Don't get me started on that one. I know a leader who was upset when a church restarted their Cub Scout pack. The CM was a den leader in the pack, and was approached by the pastor to be CM at the restarted pack. Over 6 months, 1/2 of the pack left to be in the other pack. The CM and CC didn't like that they "poached" their Cubs and leaders. But it's hard to say no to your pastor.

 

And I have a gut feeling that is part of the problem with the troop I've mentioned previously. The CM and CC who didn't like the "poaching" are now involved with the troop as SM and MC. Aftyer trying to have Den Chiefs from them for a year, when another troop offered them to us and they found out, they mentioned that they needed DCs to prevent the other troop from "poaching our Cubs." That;s when we got DCs from them. Unfortuantely they were not ready for the responibility and were eventually asked to leave.

 

Now, they are losing Scouts to 2 other troops; the one that originally offered DCs and the one that was restarted. I think it may be one of the reasons they do not participate with the district anymore. They may feel that if they participate, we will "poach" their remaining Scouts.

 

 

Blue and Gold should be in February as thatis Scout Anniversary Month. But I know some units push it back to March since December is essentially a loss with Christmas holidays.

Biggest concern the leaders at my RT is Crossover in the December through March timeframe. According to the literature out so far, You cannot start on AOL badge until after June 1st prior to 5th grade. All of our packs start working on AOL requirements simoultaneosly with the Webelos badge. And as soon as they finish Webelos badge, they then work on AOL exclusively. So we have Cub Scouts crossing over to Boy Scouts in December through March.

But the 7 months to earn rank, combined with the facts A) that all of the packs I've been familiar with over the past 32 years do not have a formal summer program (only 2 had any type of summer program) ; B) Most packs don't meet during the Christmas and other holidays; and C) you cannot start work on the AOL badge until 5th grade we have some leaders extremely concerned. Predictions are that we won't have them finished AOL until May, and htey won't be ready for summer camp.

http://www.scouting.org/Home/programupdates.aspx

These are the biggest changes to theCub Scout program in over 40 years, and probably longer.

In a nutshell

All ranks will require 7 "Adventures" that consist of 2 den meetings, 1 activity, and a pack meeting to get recognized. Each adventure will be either a belt loop (T-W-B) or Pin ( Webelos). The Webelos badge is no longer required for AOL. Some requirements for the adventures working with other dens, visiting a pack committee meeting, etc. More outdoor activities including Camping.

I know in August 1982, Tiger Cubs became a BSA program for 2nd graders. 3rd grade or 8 years old was when Cub Scout began. Wolf in 3rd, Bear in 4th, and Webelos in 5th.

That's why some religious programs have 1 religious award for Tiger and Wolves, and one for Bears and Webelos.

Just out of curiousity, what happens if a group wins the lottery, but then backs out? Is there a waiting list?

Like I mentioned previously, we have a troop that won the Sea Base lottery, and when it was announced on their facebook page, it appeared as if this was the first time the parents of the Scouts heard about it. The leader is know for doing spur of the moment things, and some have speculated that his troop signing up for Sea Base is one of them. Especially since he was trying to sign up for Philmont with another troop in the district the month before.

I know that these activities are major events that take planning even before signing up for the lottery. So I wonder how serious their bid is, and whether it will prevent another troop that is serious from going.

One of the issues I've encountered is that summer camp is a "bonding time" that allows acceptance of the younger scouts more easily than if they didn't attend.

In my expereince, not only did the guys in my den who went to camp come back way ahead of me advancement wise, but more importantly were accepted by the rest of the troop. By not going through that experience, I had some challenges with my patrol and troop. I did quit. Thankfully I eventually found another troop to be in.

I've seen the same thing happen,especially in NSPs where folks are coming from different dens and/or packs. Campign together, but especially summer camp, get them together. We have scouts in one patrol now who did not go to summer camp, or camp much with the patrol, and they are still in the " new guy" phase despite being in the troop a year.

We have another Scout right now who has fun with the troop, but within his NSP he has issues. Part of the problem is that the NSP hasn't camped together yet and had some of the shared responsibility and working together yet. Last camp out we had to merge the 2 guys with another patrol. Would not be a good idea to put two new scouts by themselves in a campsite and expect them to be successful. But the camping will help with issues. Summer camp will be the defining factor.

It will take approximately 7 months to earn AOL in the new program. 1 "adventure" is 2 den meetings, a "Go See It," and a Pack Meeting. Hence 1 month.

Grant you every pack does things differently. In my neck of the woods, Round Ups are not finished until mid to late October. grant you at Webelos it doesn't affect ya as much, but Tigers and Wolves, most definitely. And December is a wash because of Christmas holidays. Now my pack and others tend not to meet on school is not in session, i.e. holidays and teacher workdays. While Holidays are unerstadnable, the work days tend to be the same day we meet, and it causes issues.

As for Cross Over in Spring of 5th grade, back my day, early to mid 1980s ( when Tigers was its own stand alone program), May was the traditional Crossover month. Webelos was only a year long, so you had to earn Webelos and AOL in a year. My problem with it was that it did not give new Boy Scouts and parents enough time to get them ready for summer camp. In my case I crossed over the week before Memorial Day, and had about 3 weeks to come up with the money to go to camp. I could not afford it. Also my mom really didn't know the troop's leadership and was uncomfortable with me going for that reason as well.

I personally like the 1.5 year format of Webelos of the current program. Give them time to get things done and have fun, but also give them time to get into the troop, get comfortable, and save up the money to go to summer camp.

Somewhere I read in the materials out, sorry I cannot find them at the moment, is that 4th graders can only work on the Webelos badge requirements. Once they finish 4th grade, or June 1st, THEN they can work on AOL requirements. Whereas now as soon as they finish Webelos badge, they can work on AOL. So if you cannot work on AOL until June 1st, and the pack doesn't really meet until September, then you are looking at a May Crossover.

We've found that the Webelos are chomping at the bit to be Boy Scouts in December. It also gives them, and I've found the parents, more time to get to know the troop and get them ready to go to summer camp.

I am hoping I misread that or misunderstood the materials it came from. I know BSA is pushing towards a year round Cub Scout program like Boy Scouts, but the majority of packs are inactive over the summer, and the few that do meet are not having formal meetings.

'90,

I'd call them.

They may not have done the lottery yet after all. That same SM said he made reservations for summer camp this year, and when I went to the camp's leader's meeting, they were not listed.