Eagle94-A1

The one time I showed up to a Scouting event not in uniform was RT. I needed to drop something off before I left town, and I was literally all packed up with the family on my way to Atlanta and the church was on the way to the interstate.  BOY WAS I RIBBED!

Forgot to add, sometimes you get G.A.S.er Vigils, who you don't see for years. And then when they come back, it's full throttle.  We had a number of those in the lodges I've been in. And a good friend of mine who went through the Vigil with me hasn't been active in Scouting since. Between college and the Marines, he doesn't have the time. And it was iffy if was going to get leave to attend his Vigil. As it was, we were late due to his flight.

Question as I'm not as active in the OA as I used to be. Is there still a formula for determining the number and type of Vigils?

I remember a few years ago, it use to be 2 Vigil candidates for a lodge with 0-100 members, then an additional Vigil candidate for each 50 additional members, i.e. 150 members= 3 Vigil candidate, 500 members equals 10 candidates etc. Aldo the formula included a minimum of 50% of the candidates had to be youth. So a lodge there is a possibility that a lodge would have 10 spots for candidates, but fewer would get elected.

Forgot, while a professional did NOT count in the limit, they DID count in the percentage.

Old fogey's should not be outnumbering the youth.

IMHO, one reason why old fogey Vigils outnumber youth Vigils is that we all get older.  I know I got Vigil as an OA youth, but a Boy Scout Adult. Yep I was a "G.A.S.er " (Gray Area Scouter) once.

Now I'm just an old fogey.

One scout visiting asked if he could have bacon during campouts.  That was his deciding factor.  Once we let him know he chose the menu and he cooked the food, he signed up.  Everything else to him was OK or could be worked around if he could have as much bacon as he wanted, whenever he wanted.  He quickly became one of the outstanding scouts in the troop.

 My kind of scout.

Lots of great advice here, but I would add my own two cents: joining a troop is not a marriage. If things don't work out, it isn't that big of a deal to move to another troop that fits better.

 Just make sure if the troop they pick is a problem, they continue their search rather than dropping BSA because of a bad experience.

I gotta third this sentiment. The troop I first joined wasn't a good match for me and I quit. I ended up joining a cousin's troop, and had a blast. Also two of my son's friends joined the troop I and others have issues with. They are now with us.

But unfortunately 2 other friends of his got so discouraged and frustrated, they quit.

In regards to recognition for adults at COHs, there's a time and a place IMHO. If it's something the troop is giving to an adult. no problem. If it's WB beads, training knots, etc. not so much.  If the troop gave an outgoing SM or other leader a West Fellowship, I'm cool

1)  You may need to  "tag team" on recruiting a CM. By that I mean have the committee come up with a list of names, and 2 folks go and have a chat.

2) START RECRUITING NOW!!!! (emphasis)  It can take some time to make the transition.

GOOD LUCK!

A while back I posted answers to something like this.  I am going to my best to remember

What I told my son to look for and ask:

1) Who's doing stuff; adults or youth.

2) Find out how often they go camping?

3) What other activities do they do beside camping?

4) Are you having fun or is it boring?

5) Are the Scout welcoming you or not?

Things I looked for and asked

1) Who's running things, youth or adults?

2) How often do you camp?

3) If you are not camping, what other things you do?

4) Can CS leaders become leaders in the troop? (Remember, my troop growing up wanted adults 1 year a MC for "deprogramming" )

5) What are your dues, average camp out costs, and is there any fundraising?

My troop has an open door policy in regards to camping with Webelos. Unless it's an activity they cannot do, they are invited to camp with us. at the last lock in, which included climbing in the morning, ILST and geocaching in the afternoon, and dinner, ILST and goof off time in the evening, I was surprised that 2 Webelos came to the lock in for the entire time. Climbing i could understand, but I thought ILST would have been boring. But they had a good time and 1 joins in a month.

As I am discovering, the kids are not telling the parents what is going on. We had a canoe day trip planned for today, and this si the first time several parents have heard of it. I can understand the ones just joined, but this is from folks who were part of the PLC that planned the weekend!.

'What we have here is a failure to communicate."

Depends.

Since the old SPL, my son, doesn't have email, cell phone, or facebook, either he A) made phone calls, or B) wrote the message and sent it via my account, to other Scouts and/or parents. Some of the Scouts are  in the same situation as my son so the parents get the stuff.

Current SPL has all of the above.

Adults usually contact adults only.

Hey, E92-94 -- aren't professionals prohibited or strongly discouraged from wearing knots other than Eagle or the Darth Vader (professional development) knot?   Maybe that explains Green Bar Bill's uniform rather than it being his personal preference or a political statement...

 

... District Award of Merit (representing 5 years running day camp -- I damn-well earned that one)....

 I was told that at one time pros were prohibited or discouraged too. However that did change before I was a DE.  I wore 4: Eagle, AOL, Youth Religious, and Scouter Training Award. I knew one guy who had 2-3 rows, but he was a former volunteer who turned to the dark side when he retired from the military. He is now retired as a professional, and is the only volunteer with the Lord Vader knot. Yep, still volunteering.

Now I do know it's either prohibited ot strongly dscouraged, I honestly don't know which, but the District Committee Key is not one you get while as a DE. It may be because Pros are never considered "Trained" and authorized a trained strip.

I also was told that there is a 5 year period that a former pro must wait before getting the DAM and/or Silver Beaver. I know the former SE, who retired in the community and was still active as a volunteer, was nominated for the SB. When it was announced at a staff meeting he wasn't getting it, several DEs were extremely ticked off, with a few choice words being said. Then the SE let the cat out of the bag.

As for running day camp for 5 years and the DAM, they probably should have gotten you a fifth of single malt Scotch or a sainthood. 

I think there are a lot of factors involved in folks wearing knots.

Pride is one of them. I know I am very proud that I'm part of the then 2% that earned Eagle.

Showing accomplishments is another. I have dealt mostly with Cub Scouts, and  parents are more comfortable with folks with knots and other "swank" as BP called it, because it shows commitment and experience. Grant you, when I started back in Cubs with the oldest 6 years ago, those knots had more to do with Boy Scout level and district level service than Cubs.

Also I too have had negative experiences with some folks looking at my uniform and seeing my lack of knots and beads, and not taking me seriously. I've been told I don't know anything about the program, I've been called a puppet mouthing what folks want said, and I have been ignored. All because I only wore 3 knots at the time.

As I have discovered, negativity can destroy even the most positive of things. And I do beleive the BSA recognizing leaders is a good thing

And I remember a story I read about the Korean War. A self important captain walks into a command post and starts making a fool of himself. He sees this grizzled old veteran wearing a field jacket with the insignia not visible in a chair, with his feet on some boxes not responding.  He confronts the vet only to find its his regimental CO. So never judge a book by it's cover.

That's a new one for me. Does the camp have a 'Provisional Week" or "Provisional Troop?" At one camp I worked at, there was a week set aside where 2 volunteers and/or camp staffers were put in charge of a troop os Scouts who attended camp on their own. One summeron staff I was the "Provisional SM" since about 1/3 of the Scouts were from my home troop coming for a second week of camp.

At another camp, they have volunteers every week who serve as provisional SM. They go for free ( thankfully) and used to get a discount for a Scout in their troop for each week they are there. When I was on staff, we had one guy volunteer the entire summer, and that is how he got his Scouts to camp.

I was under the impression from the u of scouting and other intros I've seen and read, that the program was going to be better and perhaps more completely laid out for the leaders.... If it requires more planning I'm afraid @SeattlePioneer may very well be right!

I admit I haven't read any of the materials, been busy playing with my birthday gifts and other tools. But when reveiwing the requirements, and other intro materials for RT, I've noticed that while it is more completely laid out for the leaders, if you look at all of the requirements in toto, you will notice that some activities at the upper levels require the older Cubs to work with the younger Cubs.  Also it may be easier to do some activities as a pack, with each Den doing their own thing within the pack's framework, than every den doing it on their own. Best example of that is the Aquatics Adventures for each level. At the moment, I'm the only one with SSD and SA certifcation. So at the moment, the dens cannot do any swimming or boating activities unless I'm there to provide Qualified Supervision. 

The other part of planning has to do with district/council level activities. District organizers need to review the new requirements, discuss with the various packs on when they will be doing the different activities, and plan accordingly. In my neck of the woods, the organizer doesn't do this, and has even changed dates at the last minute. Really screwed up planning by several packs in my area. And with the "2 Meetings and  Go See it" every month for 7 months, I see conflicts arising if things are not well planned.

I didn't see the post above mine when I wrote it. It's rather ironic the placement. I agree, let's be possitive.

"Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?"

One thing I've noticed and am preaching at my RTs: you need to coordinate schedules ASAP and PLAN, PLAN, PLAN! Some requirements can be met in a pack activity i.e. we are working on renting a pool to do the aquatics ones for everyone instead of doing it piecemeal by dens. Webnelos and Bears need to work with Tigers and Wolves on certain skills  Again LOTS of planning will be needed.

BUT I beleive once we get the planning process worked out, we wil be able to repeat it every year.

Just as long as district keeps the original dates for district activities and not change them around last minute.

I think some of the negativity in regards to the "Latin American Generals" comes from the negative attitudes. Not saying all knot wears have negative attitudes, but those knots are easily identifiable and memorable.

One of the nicest, most helpful leaders with over 60 years in the BSA has 4 rows. Only time I ever saw him angry was when I had to tell him according the council training records, he was "untrained." You don't tell a a PTC staffer he isn't trained in his job

It's a troop thing, but this year it was a nearly unanimous decision. Nearly unanimous because some folks didn't care where they would be going.

We don't have the adult manpower to split up. However next year, we have a contingent going to Philmont, and the rest going to a regular summer camp. I am already working on getting leader for 2016 as the 2 folks who have been to every summer camp since the troop restarted are going to Philmont next year.

I know my troop growing up wanted all new adult leaders, except the 18-20 year olds, to be on the troop committee for at least a year  before becoming an ASM. Part of it was so that they could get the training. But a part of it was  getting them accustomed to the Patrol Method and troop culture. We had issues with new ASMs right out of Cub Scouts, so the troop went that route.

Maybe it was a good thing since it gave the adults a chance to see the Patrol Method in action?

Forgot to add, I second summer camp as THE #1 bonding event for a new scout. There is something about a week of camp that forces the bonding.

Beth,

WELCOME TO DA FORUMS!!!!!!!!  I've seen a similar situation where a female 3 beader went into an "Experts" session at PDL-1, and almost allof the guys in there looked at her as if she had a third eye.

As for the devices, if you are active in your uniform, i.e. carrying merchandise, setting up displays and needing to l;ean into it, etc the pins can be physically uncomfortable. Especially if the backing falls off and you don't realize it.

They are a figurative pain when the backings keep falling off. I eventually replaced all of my backings with rubber erasers.  Also it's a pain to get one of my devices, my Sea Scout Device, as national has deviced to make it a restricted item.

I admit I wear knots. Some of it has to do with the  "Bananana Republic Generals." Way back in the day, I had some folks who were not very scoutlike because I didn't have rows of knots. I was rather interesting because I could suggest something and be ignored. Yet when a friend of mine, who had his beads and multiple rows of knots, would repeat what i said about something, it was freaking brilliant.

Depending upon the shirt depends upon which knots and how many. Only shirt that has everything is the commissioner shirt, my "camping" BS shirt has none. Sea Scouts khakis don't have knots, and my whites are officially limited knots to 6, The rest have anywhere from 4 to 8.

Now the only time I wore the devices and stars was when I worked for national and had to. They were pain, literally and figuratively.

I know I went over AQUATICS last week at CS RT and the changes to boating for Cubs ( FYI Pack and Dens can now conduct boating activities, and not just row boat but sailboats, canoes, powerboats, and kayaks on flat water, as long as Safe Swim Defense and Safety AFloat are followed)

One of the  CMs asked me what the Scout Water Chant was and I had to tell him I had no idea as that is a new thing. When I read it, had to agree it was awfully complicated.

The good news is that the Cub Scout Standard of "Do Your Best" applies.

But like SP, I am also stepping down as a DL after 6 years, and moving to the pack committee. Not only am I burning out on Cub Scouts, but my son's troop needs help. Found out they are getting a new SM effective June 1, and with his work schedule he will need back up. So I'm switching from troop committee to ASM.

In my neck of the woods, you are required to have one "pre-camporee" camp out with the intent that you spend a month to two months prepping and have a practice campout before camporee competition. My son's troop spent 6 weeks prepping for camporee. They did a camp out with the intent to practice. With the exception of one district's camporee, usually the events are not known far enough in advance to have the PLC plan spending months.  And unless it's all Scoutcraft, I'm dead set against it.

Although I can see some accidental planning occurring. Like I mentioned, council camporee had a Wilderness Survival theme. We got the info in February. But guess what the PLCS decided to do in Novemebr of this year? Yep Wilderness Survival. So I can see a remote possibility of a troop "practicing"months in advance on events. 

As for "fixing" patrols, I am dead set against this. On the district level, one of the events is the annual uniform inspection, and it is a BIG DEAL. There have been times in the past where the uniform inspection decided who got first, second, and third.  It is there that you can find the "fixed" patrol because they are wearing 2 or more patrol emblems, and have multiple folks with a PL patch.

One year, a troop decided to have their Philmont crew compete as a patrol. Interestingly enough they had one of the lower scores in the competition.

In regards to the shop verifying you earned something, it may also depend on how well they know you. When I worked for national supply, I was suppose to see proof that you earned restricted items like knots. But sometimes folks I knew that had earned the item requested, so I wouldn't ask for proof since I knew they had it. I.e. was at the ceremony, heard about the ceremony, saw the newsletter article, etc.

Only time I ever sold something to someone with out proof was the Heroism Award knot. I knew what the camp director was doing, buying a uniform for our camp chaplain. The chaplain did earn it as a youth, was even featured in Boys' Life Scouts in Action, and the CD and entire staff wanted the chaplain in a current uniform.