Eagle94-A1

I think the biggest difference between LDS and non-LDS units are the leaders. 

In LDS units, you are "called" or appointed to be a leader, whether you want to be one or not. So there may be no interest in doing a "decent job."

In non-LDS units you have volunteers that, for whatever reason, have some motivation to be a leader. It can be their sons, it can be that scouting is their passion. The volunteers have the motivation to do a "decent job."

I have a job, in which I am subject to having my schedule changed on a minutes notice, and yes I've stayed late without prior warning several times. I've also had to deal with family health issues which have dramatically impacted my family for the past 12 years. So yes, I understand work and family commitments.

But  I'm also involved with 2 units, the district committee, and am a RT commissioner. I do a "decent job" because I have a lot of kids, including my three hoodlums, depending upon me. Could I be a better leader, absolutely. But where I'm at, there is a lack of volunteers willing to help out.

Someone needs to help the youth.

My personal favorite is when they punish the boy by not let them attend scouting events.  You don't go to scouts unless your homework is finished.  You are grounded, no scouts, etc.

 

What they think they are doing is taking away fun activities from the boys when in fact they are denying them the program that has a chance to improve their behavior.

Unfortunately I know of one Scout who was having major family issues due to divorce. When his grades slipped, mom grounded him, including no Scouts. He attempted suicide because for him, his SM was the only adult that cared about him and what was going on. For him Scouting was the positive, safe environment. Once he recuperated and got help, he returned to the troop until mom and siblings moved. I hope he found another good troop wherever he went.

1) BSA goes with the lowest bidder,

2) When this fiasco started with SCOUTNET2000 in 1998, one of my fellow DEs, who worked in IT prior to and after leaving the BSA, tol dme this fiasco would haunt us for years because:

A)  Guy in charge had 0% IT background, he was a former SE

B)  Company being used was known in the IT field at the time for lowballing their bids, making hteir money with fixing the bugs.

I had a conversation with the new Scouts last meeting. i told them EVERY time they get something signed off for advancement, ESPECIALLY AFTER BORs ( all caps emphasis), they need to make a copy of their advancement sheets and store them in a safe place.  Told then about what happened to me, book splitting and then going for a swim, as well as what happened top a friend, council had his records so messed up that he was listed as a First Class Scout when he was going for his Eagle. Told them in both instances, the copies from the book worked because THEY ARE THE OFFICIAL RECORD OF THEIR ADVANCEMENT!   Everything else is just confirmation.

While not as dramatic as Stosh's 2 stories, one of my Eagles was over in Iraq and the plastic tension thingy on his tent's guy line broke. He fixed it using a taunt-line hitch.  His Gunny made him teach everyone in his platoon how to tie that not so that when it happened to someone else, they could fix the problem.

And everyone knows the story of the Eagle who was a NASA shuttle commander and his square lashing story?

My understanding is that National is still pushing year round Cub Scouts. I guess they want Cubs to be like Boy Scouts. I don't think the PTB realize how adult leader intensive Cub Scouting is, and that a break from Cub Scouts is needed for the adults.

My pack does do activities over the summer. It varies from 2 events per month to 1 per month, depending upon pack leadership.

In Christineka's defense, she did say that her family is LDS, and there are some modifications to the Boy Scout program tailored to their church. The youth are automatically enrolled in Scouting and are expected to be in the church's units. And if memory serves, it is extremely discouraged for them to join other units. So voting with their feet may not be an option.

And we also know that just like non-LDS units, there is a wide variety of adherence to BSA and LDS policy with LDS units. I actually discussed the challenges I faced with one LDS church in my district with a very active LDS Scouter ( sorry don't remember if it was the bishop or the pro) and the comment he made was " The further away from Salt Lake City you are, the wider the variety."

I know other threads, and even Bryon on Scouting, have discussed challenges that the LDS church have with Scouting units. The biggest IMHO is the fact that leaders are appointed, and are not true volunteers, with rapid turnover. In the troop I tried to contact, the troop's leadership changed 3 or 4 times in less than a year!

First off, if it sound like I am criticizing anyone, I want to apologize. That wasn't my intent. I know different troops do different things, and I am trying to understand what's going on and getting some clarification.

Second off, I am a program freak, and firmly believe that if you have a good program, they will come. My troop didn't have a CS pack for the bulk of my tenure as a youth. We survived becasue we had a very active program. Really broke my hear to find out that my troop folded after Katrina.

So program is right up there.

Third, I honestly believe that the key to everything is the Patrol Method. I cannot emphasize that enough.

Fourth, in my neckof the woods now, it seems as if every troop that has a feeder pack, save my pack, has a very good relationship with their CO's troop. There are district/council service projects that everyone in the district takes part in. Or at least almost every unit.

I do think that while it should not be a #1 priotity, I do think Scout Sunday, or Scout Sabbath for our Jewish brethen, should be a joint event with all of a CO's units taking part in. I know that prior to me joing the pack, the CO had a crew as well. And the pack, troop, and crew  did Scout Sunday. heck even the Girl Scouts that meet at the church attended.

Currently 3 camp outs are needed in order to get First Class, so if he's been only on 1 camp out, he should not be First class, let alone. Star.

As for pushing to Eagle ASAP, those of us who have been in a while have seen too many cases of "Eagles" who couldn't tell you about a single thing they did for any of their MBs. In one instance, when an EBOR that denied one Scout the Eagle rank because his family "pencil-whipped" the MBs found out that National granted his appeal, Not only did the district's EBOR resign in protest, the entire district advancement committee did so as well.

In all honesty there have been only a handful of young Eagles that have truly mastered the knowledge, skills and have the abilities to meet teh Eagle requirements.

Also let me tell you the Tale of Two Eagles.

The first Eagle Scout was the son of an Eagle. Dad pushed and pushed his son to get Eagle ASAP. And son did just that; he got Eagle at 13 and left the program after that.

The second Eagle was the the first Eagle's cousin. Uncle also pushed him to get Eagle ASAP. And he was well on his way to getting Eagle at 14. But something happened. First he got selected by his troop to do the NYLT of his day, and he had a blast. He then went to Jamboree and did a 50 miler in Canada, again having fun. Then he got into the OA.  He was having so much fun, as well as giving back to his troop, that 5 years past between earning Life and finally earning Eagle.

Which Eagle do you think had more fun, my cousin who got it at 13, or me you got it at 18?

Live class with internet used fro communication: Good.

Internet and computer based MBs: bad

Gotcha. We're fortunate in that the camproees are actually rather good in my neck of the woods. Except for the year it was MBs, specifically the Scouts had to chose from 4 MBs to work on. Several units skipped out, and the district learned their lesson when most of the Scouts complained.

From some literature I've read, January.

But I know that national supply, and a lot of council stores do Inventory int eh late December/early January time frame. GHonna be interesting.

And thanks for the italics!

As for LDS units and 11 year olds camping, it's a national thing. They are limited to 3 campouts per year. That may need to be changed since I think 6 are required for FC now. Sorry I glanced at the new requirements.

Isn't it listed in the MB requirements?

2Cub.

But do you invite Webelos to meetings, camp outs, etc? Are there any district/council activities that encourage Troops to bring Webelos to?  Are there any service projects and other CO activities that both the pack and the troop participate in?

I ask because in my neck of the woods the district and council camporees encourage troops to invite Webelos ( you get points towards your score). Most packs and troops work together on Scouting for Food and our district's Memorial Day Service Project. What about Scout Sunday?

The document is a comparison chart from what is currently listed in the Boy Scout Handbook to what will be in the new Boy Scout handbook. I have the 2014 printing of the BSH, which actually was reprinted from the 2012 printing and prior to January 1, 2014. So, Cooking is not listed in the current handbook, but was updated in the 2014 Boy Scout Requirements book
 
 
So if this is a comparison of what is currently in the book, to what WILL BE in the new book, and Cooking isn't listed under the new requirements, Me thinks the need books needs more editing before coming out.

Recruitment is the topic today. 

 

If Scouting is deemed a good thing for boys,  why is YOUR unit the one they should join to get that "Good Thing"?

 

If the Troop only depends on Crossing Over Webelos for it's "new blood", what is the real reason for that Troop's existence? 

 

If a Cub Pack recruits from the general school population,  what's to stop a Boy Troop from doing the same thing?  Does your Troop make any effort (posters, handouts, presence at PTA meetings, back to school nights,  school assemblies?) to give 5,6,7,8 grade boys the opportunity , the reasons to consider Scouting along with sports, band, debate club, etc.? 

 

What is the reason some boys "jump ship" to another unit ?  Why the jealousy between Scout Leaders if we are all (officially)  bent to the same task ?  What was that mission statement again?

 

If a Troop depends on ( a ) Pack for it's "new blood", shouldn't it help that Pack recruit Cubs?  Shouldn't it make itself attractive to those Cubs ?

 

If a boy LIKES being a Scout (Cub, Boy) , how can we, the ADULT Leaders, make it easy for the Scout to invite his friends to join too?  Assuming , that is, that we want "outsiders" to join.....

Why join my troop? It depends.  The main questions the Scout should ask are  1) Are you meeting my needs, and 2) Am I having fun?

We are a "hiking and camping troop" with boating thrown in during the summer. We are doing some outdoor activity every month, except January. That's becasue of all the Crossovers we get in December. So we have a lock in with a trip to the climbing wall, and some other activity.

Why we exist?  Old pastor saw a need for the Scouting program in the church. He viewed it as an outreach program.  New pastor is A) and Eagle, B) father of a Scout, and C) Loves the outdoors. He knows what Scouting can do, not only for his church but also the community, and is behind it 110% Heck he's going to Philmont again with his son next year.

Do we do school recruiting? Not really. We have flyers posted around the church, and do have article inteh newspaper. But a lof of our non-prior Cub Scout  Boy Scouts come from word of mouth.

Have we had folks jump ship? Yes we have. Some folks had friends in another troop. One Cub who went to a different troop because his older brother was already there, but htey didn't have a pack. And sometimes another troop is a better fit. My troop is not advancement oriented, as evidenced by the folks who are still Tenderfoots after 3 years. We focus on providing the advancement opportunities. One Scout, or more likely the parent, wanted a "high speed, low drag" approach to Eagle. So they transferred.

However we are getting a bit more advancement oriented. We have a crew going to Philmont next year, so we are focusing on advancemt a bit. Monday's meeting was split between getting ready for the camp out next week, and having folks buddy up to work on Scout and Tenderfoot badges.

And sometimes  folks lose interest.

As for jealosy, we are not if someone transfers. We are actually happy for them that they are still with the program.

BUT what we are jealous of is one established Troop that is the best in the district. They are a true model of the patrol method, and we are jealous that they have older scouts who are working with and mentoring their younger ones. But we are workin gon that

Pack - Troop Relationships?  Troop I grew up in didn't have a feeder pack until I almsot aged out, so we recruited primarily through word of mouth. I've seen first hand what happens when a CO's pack and troop do not work together, eventually the troop and possibly even the pack folds.  Unfortunately I'm seeing this with my pack's CO's troop: they don't do anything with the pack.

My troop's CO's pack is a completely different story. We share the same committee, and the CM is also an ASM with the troop. Plus several of the troop's parents are DLs with the pack. So there is a very strong bond between the two.

Inviting Friends?  We have an open door policy, so freinds and Scout age siblings are invited. My son's PL, who is now a CIT on summer camp, got into the troop becasue his younger brother kept buggint he heck out of him to try out the troop. Canoe trip did the brother in, and he's suppose to go to Philmont next year, if he can get First  Class.  

 Personally, for the most part, I find that the most scoutlike of scouts camp a lot. We have one exception (a boy with Asperger's who rarely misses a campout), but for the most part, our frequent campers are our better scouts, not just in terms of scout skills, but in overall scout spirit. 

Could it be that "OUTING is three-fourths of ScOUTING." ?

Or maybe "ScOUTING IS OUTING!" ?

Sorry I couldn't resist quoting Green Bar Bill.

First Aid MB was no longer required for First Class in August 1989 when they did away with the time requirements, Skill Awards, etc and came out with OPERATION FIRST CLASS.

As for the Webelos Adventures aqnd doing them like MBs, I know of one mom who is going to have some challenges with the process. She is very outdoor oriented (hey you know you got a keeper when she's willing to  go backpacking on the AT for the honeymoon   ) and took the hoodlums on a hike. After the hike, she decided to see what could get signed off  for the Wolf and Webelos.  There was even a little "debate" over who was going to use their first aid kit and do first aid on the youngest: Oldest with First Aid MB, or the Webelos who completed the First Responder Adventure at day camp. The Webelos won.

(sarcasm on) "I love it. LOVE IT!" ( sarcasm off)

It's not about advancement, it's about the Scouts learning something and growing.

My oldest spent a week at summer camp, and didn't earn a single merit badge. NOT. A. SINGLE. ONE. One parent freaked when I mentioned this. Sai dsomehting about wasting the camp fee.

BUT did my son learn some things? Absolutely. Did my son have fun? Absolutely. Did my son grow? Absolutely.  Proudest moment for me was when he took one of our homesick Scouts under his wing and helped him out. This is his 2nd year at summer camp, and he handled it like a pro. 

As for using digital media to show what you've earned? Let's just say there is a reason why badges are worn. We have several Scouts who, because they and no one in their families can sew, do not where ANY rank. They get ticked off at me when I treat them as new Scouts who have just joined the troop. But I don't  know what they are capable of doing and not doing without seeing the rank.

As it is, we have one parent upset that said he will not buy his son a book until the new ones come out in January. Instead he's going to keep track of everything on the phone with an app. It was interestng to remnd the dad that A) His son's advancement, his son's responibility, and B) How is the BOR goignto sign an app?

I know our troop has a program, maybe too good a program as A) we are getting scouts from multiple units and B) We are a hiking and camping unit. The youth have been slack on advancement up until recently. But that's because most  don't care, they want to have fun. All the older ones now want First Class so they can go to Philmont next year. Funny thing is, withthe exception of the 30 days of exercises for Tenderfoot, and the 1 mile orienteering course for First Class, all they really need to do is get the stuff signed off. They have the KSA for the advancement.

One thing that seems kinda ironic is that it seem the challenged troop is copying us. We announced when we won the Philmont lottery for 2016 and has x number of spaces open to get them filled. When the SM found out that all the spaces were filled, about a month later he announces that their troop is going to FL Sea Base, and none of the parents or scouts knew anything about it.  We announced we were going to a specific summer camp, they announce they are going to the same camp and the same week. We had some minor issues with their scouts bugging ours, especially the two who transferred from them to us,but overall everythign was OK. 

Well, one more.  Here is one of the new requirements for Scout:

 

 

As they say these days, "Really?"  No more learning as you go along?  Now you can't even get the first patch on your pocket without being able to recite the entire path that lies ahead?  Fresh off the bridge from Webelos and you are expected to describe the merit badge program?  I don't even like the idea of kids earning merit badges until they are at least Second Class, but I know that ship sailed a long time ago.

 

Maybe "a" and "b" are ok for Scout, but I think they could have let "c" and "d" wait for Tenderfoot or later.  And that's even assuming a requirement like this was necessary in the first place.

IMHO,  part of getting them to understand MBs is using the Webelos Adventures in a very similar manner to MBs, i.e. get "experts" to work on them with the Cub Scouts.

As for what the ranks are, I'ld focus on the "how they are earned" part more than what they are.

And I second whomever siad First Aid MB required for First Class Scout.

I want to say it was mid to late 1990s when the ban went into effect.

here is a 1990 camporee patch

http://www.ebay.com/itm/East-Carolina-Council-1990-Camporee-Tar-Heels-H2292-/201371801269?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ee2b1d6b5

I want to say this was the last official CSP from my council with it http://www.ebay.com/itm/MINT-CSP-East-Carolina-Council-S-5-/291502226712?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43dee2fd18

This troop got into some major trouble with national and the council with this one.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/East-Carolina-Council-2005-Jamboree-Troop-12-SMY-JSP-patch-gQ-/231606288588?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35eccf80cc

I want to say this was the first CSP with it http://www.ebay.com/itm/Old-East-Carolina-Council-Rare-Scout-Shoulder-Patch-CSP-/200431103970?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eaa9fefe2

One I heard about was the camp director placing the live lobsters for the SM's dinner with the Scout exec in the  staff shower house.  Took a while for the staff to clear out the showerhouse.

Staff in response put his Jeep in neutral, pushed it to the area between the main camp and the HA base, put it on 4 jacks, and used the four tires as orienteering markers for him to find.

That ended the pranks that year at camp.

Another one I heard was the cranky P.I.T.B. camp medic, who happened to be a heavy sleeper, was duct taped to his cot by several staffers he ticked off. They then proceeded to carry him up a ladder and placed him on the roof of the health lodge.

One I saw was done to a lazy PD who had a habit of sleeping a lot, raiding the dining hall, and playing RISK. Staff moved his desk and stuff from HQ to the dining hall. They also placed a cot next to the desk. They finally hung a large sign with letters that were easily readable form a distance with a "To Do" list of  eating, napping, and Risk.

FINALLY, one I saw from the other side of the pond, so CambridgeSkip will appreciate this one.  One of the service team (camp staff) was being a PITB to one of the leaders of a Girl Guide troop staying at the camp. Ok I can understand the attraction as she was a very beautiful model.  The entire Girl Guide troop had enough, so they decided to invite him to supper. As soon as he sits down, they tie him up, shave one leg into verticle strips, the other into horizontal stripes, and put clown makeup and red nose on him. Did I mention he was a rugby player and had some tournament to play in that weekend? Needless to say, the unwanted attention stopped.

I like an Enfield bayonet; firmly attached to the end of an Ithaca 12 gauge pump.

 

http://www.kapesni-noze.cz/inshop/obchod/enfield-m-1917-bayonet+id-MRP803131.html

http://wstrainingacademy.com/files/Ithaca-37.jpg

 

Read my signature line below V

Japanese type 30 for me.  I got one like the middle one in the photo.  http://milpas.cc/rifles/ZFiles/Bolt%20Action%20Rifles/Japanese%20Rifles/Bayonets%20for%20the%20Arisaka%20Rifle/Bayonets%20for%20the%20Arisaka%20Rifle.htm

BUT I am saving up for one of these beauties

http://www.khukurihouseonline.com/Content/Catalog/Browse/ProductDetail.php?PID=a9a1d5317a33ae8cef33961c34144f84|5b484f

Did he actually use all the items on the SAK?

If not, I'm a very big fan of Opinel, especially their carbon steel knives:   http://www.opinel-usa.com/collections/opinel-carbon-blades#.VZsxM7Xig40

I and my older two boys have this one.

http://www.opinel-usa.com/collections/opinel-carbon-blades/products/opinel-knives-no-7-carbon-steel-folding-knife#.VZsxYbXig40

But I'm thinking of handing down mine to youngest and getting this one.

http://www.opinel-usa.com/collections/opinel-carbon-blades/products/opinel-carbon-blade-no10-folding-knife#.VZsxqLXig40