Eagle94-A1

This conversation reminds me of when I was working for National Supply immediately after 9-11-01. Manager, who wear the professional uniform, gave out American Flag lapel pins for the staff to wear. She looked at me with horror and disgust when i told her I didn't need it. She said "WHAT!?!?!?!" Pointing to my right sleeve I told her, "Already have one."

Now I am a member of the "uniform police." There may be a pin I wear for a meeting or special event that isn't authorized. Like others, it is usually something that someone has given me. But I don't wear it all the time.

Does anyone still wear hatpins? I remember back in the day seeing folks with hats full of them. Grant you it was authorized only for jambos, but still saw it a lot.

Is your local Scout Shop owned by the council, or by National Supply? If the folks working there are in either the professional uniform or a field uniform with gold loops, they are national run. Ask them to call around to other shops and see what they can get.

Another thing is to talk to other packs in the areas and see if they have any leftovers.

good luck.

Under the new program, other than shared book and electives, the Webelos Program and AOL program are effectively separate.

 

Because of the way the LDS program works, Webelos and AOL will need to remain together and doable within a year.

As for the 2 Duty to God requirements, no where in the book that I've read so far says Webelos Duty to God requirement must be earned in 4th grade and the AOL Duty to God requirement can only be earned in 5th grade. Again, the way the LDS program works,  they must work on both awards at the same time.

Why I always say a sign of a good troop is the number of older Scouts who are still active, especially is they are already Eagle and don't have that as an incentive to stick around.  I know I stuck around after turning 18. I had friends in college who were active whenever they could with the troop.

When I not chilling out in an arm immobilzer and doing  "Pain and Torture," I'm a medical librarian at a small rural hospital.

Please keep posting comments and ideas please.  More tools in my arsenal, the better job I can do.

Stosh mentions PLs and giving them responsibility. One responsibility I want to give them is the ability to sign off T-2-1 Requirements up to their own rank. Challenge at the moment is that all of the PLs are Scout. The troop has been more focused on the "Outing" and less so on advancement. We have guys in the troop 2, 3 years, and are still Scout, even after going to summer camp and being active. Troop has gotten into "advancement mode" due to Philmont. Funny thing is with the exception of the 30 days of exercises and showing improvement, Most of the stuff up to First Class has been done for some of these folks. One PL is going for Second Class and First Class BOR next week. Another is going for Tenderfoot and Second Class. So I see this happening finally.

But I admit I have mixed emotions on this. Long story short, instead of preparing for camporee, we are focusing on T-2-1 requirements this month. SPL had Scouts buddy up and working on advancement. One of the PLs was having challenges.  Part of me wonders will he be able to do the job? Part of me wonders is it because the SPL sprung it on him at the last minute?

On a positive note, this is one of the Scouts who, when asked if he thought he met the mile long compass course requirement a few months back, said no he and the others needed more practice. You don't know how proud I was of the group when they said that.

In regards to youth led troop being more organized, I was fortunate to be in an established youth-led troop. By established I mean we had been around for 20+ years, and had an older scout patrol, called the Leadership Corps at the time,and they ran things. Mostly 14 - 17 year olds who had "been there, done that, got the patch," and had the ability to control teh behavior of everyone with 6 words, " You're wasting your game time, gentlemen."

I think one reason why we were able to keep our guys active until 18, and even beyond as ASMs, was becasue the adults gave us ownership of the troop.

I admit I have not looked at all the details. But from the literature it takes 14 months to get both the Webelos Badge, and AOL Badge. I'd focus on the Webelos Badge, then as soon as they finish, start working on AOL. Unless you are LDS, then I would either work on both at the same time, or skip Webelos and go directly to AOL.

IMHO the powers that be didn't really think through the Webelos program full when they came up with it. I bet we see some updates in the years to come.

Correct. Liek everyone is saying. baby steps.

Stosh,

Sorry about the confusion. The meds I'm back on are messing up my cognative ability. Can't wait to be off them for that aspect.

But it's great having NO pain whatsoever.

  If you have 3 patrols and they all want to do something different for summer camp next summer, you'll be scrambling if you're going to make good on the promise of Scouting.

Thankfully summer camp is taken care of. Older Scouts are going to Philmont, the rest of the Scouts are going to a summer camp they never have been to before: our council's camp.

On a positive note, SPL is starting to take charge. Slowly but surely.

If scouting was a "game" with a purpose and there's a ton of "adventure" as part of that game.  Why is it so hard to compete with other games?

Sometimes it's due to grades. I know I know I keep mentioning band, but at the HS I went to, the different sports were considered PE, and they got a grade. During the season, they got out of PE class, with the intention that they did homework. that doesn't happen around here, but may elsewhere.

Sometimes parents put the pressure. Sometimes they are reliving their childhood.

Sometimes there is a hope of getting that scholarship and goign to college. Scouting doesn't have as many scholarships as sports.

Sometimes it's peer pressure.

Sometimes it's boredom. if you are in a troop that does the same thing over and over and over again, yeah it gets boring.

My thoughts.

1) YOUR SON (emphasis) should contact the old troop and get a copy of the records, even if they turned it in to the new troop. His rank, his responsibility.

2) YOUR SON needs to bug the heck out of the SM to the point of providing COPIES (emphasis again) of his signed portion of the blue card. Squeaky wheel get the oil so to speak.

3) YOUR SON needs to contact the council office and get a copy of his records ASAP (yep emphasis).  I've seen too many times where paperwork that was turned in to a council and council either had the wrong dates or didn't put it into the records.  Grant you I've dealt with this a lot on the Cub Scout level, but dealt with one case where the Eagle Candidate was denied the EBOR by the Council because in reviewing their records, he was listed as a First Class Scout.

4) Your son can start work on his project as soon as he gets Life. I too recommend getting the project completed as soon as you earn Life because I've known too many people wait to the last minute and either do projects that meet the requirements, but know they could have done a better job if they didn't wait to the last minute, or not get Eagle as a result of the project. In one case the Life Scout had 56 MBs. In another case, the Scout waited so long to do the project, he appealed all they way up to national for an extension to do the project. It was denied.

Closest i've come to giving a patrol a menu is this cook book:  http://www.macscouter.com/cooking/docs/PHLMNTCB.pdf

Gave every patrol one.

I advise my boys that the only official record of their advancement is their Scout Handbook and Blue Cards and it is their responsibility to keep them safe, duplicated, stored or whatever.  But if they lose them they are on their own.  The adults may keep records too, but those aren't official and adults dealing with a number of boys may not get everything recorded properly.  The only way to keep track of their advancement progress is up to them.  They get this "lecture" when they first start in scouts and it is repeated ad nauseum throughout their scouting career.  I have only had a couple of sticky wickets along the way, and we got those resolved rather quickly.

SO TRUE!  I've had multiple encounters where a council's records were incorrect because the person imputing the data was using the date they were placing the reports into the computer and not the date the award was actually earned.  Also encountered where the council records were never inputted the data at all, but that is mostly on the Cub Scout side of things but still affected one Eagle I know.

In all instances, the Boy Scout Hand Book advancement sign off pages, or photocopies in my case , were used to correct the council's records. Took over a month after passing my EBOR to get the council's records corrected, and forwarded to national for approval.

Someone mentioned band. In these parts, you miss a band fuction, you lose points on grade.

Yep, I that will be the case. One thing I'm hopinng will happen is to use ''ego'' i.e. you guys have been to Philmont, and if you want to similar trips, I need. your help to get everyone else up to speed.

Yep it's what we call Sunday School. Stands for Confraternity of Christian Doctrine, but sometimes known as Catechism.

My middle son freaked out when I told him I did CCD only 1 year. When he asked how, told I went to parochial school and had theology classes everyday.

I was told the pin for the Light of Christ award was the youth's lapel pin. Both boys wore it on the suits for First Communion.

The "Parents' Pins" were originlly "Mother's Pins, and would go on a ribbon that the ladies wore. Name changed some time in the 1990s, except for the one in the Eagle Presentation Kit.  That is still called a mother's pin since the there isa tie tac for dad.

As for the Council Pin,  if you go to jamo, you are authorized to wear it onthe hat, hence hat pins.

I actually mounted my pins for dispay in my office. Unfortunately I haven't found them since the last move

I admit, I let son skip CCD when the troop camps, Next year, however wil be confirmation, and I'll be doing some travelling.

But I too have seen it where sports comes before church. I have a problem withthat.

Unfortunately nowhere. Only pins authorized for. the uniform are Sea Badge trident, Powder Horn, the Emegency Prep pin, and various knot devices.

In all honesty, when I worked for national supply and had to wear pins, it was a major pain, litteraly and figuratively.

One also has to overcome the hurdle of taking adults seriously about the change.  For 11-17 years they have heard the adult line about growing up, being a big boy, and making their own choices, but more often than not the rug has been pulled out from under them a lot of times along the way.  

 

One more false promise of us running the show.  We'll just wait and see.  So while they wait, the adults become frustrated and take the reins back and the boys conclude, "See, just like always."

 

That's why I'm hypersensative about this and trying to find the "Balence" between trying working with them on a vision of the troop and improving it, versus telling them what I want done and tellign them to do it.  Inspiring, motivating and letting them take ownership. One reason why I call being an SM an "art"

 

Most adults don't have the nerve to allow the youth to fail multiple times until the boys learn to trust that they are really in control of the program.  No other program out there has the potential to do that.  There's always going to be the band director, the coach, the teacher, the pastor, the parent telling the boy what his options are and which of those options is the best.  Yeah, right, that's letting the boy decide.

 

They have never been given the chance to really decide for themselves and theoretically BSA is the only program that allows that possibility.  The only thing standing in the way are the mentoring, guiding, directing, correcting, manipulating and even bullying adults.  No successful SM brags about the fact that his boys are making choices and failing right and left as they try out their wings.

 

NAILED IT!  I've seen new leaders from Cub Scouts that had to be reigned in. Heck I found out that one dad whose son isin the NSP made teh menu and did the shopping for them. Son is sick was the excuse.  One reason why want the oler Scouts taking on more responsibility. Our troop guides have been in name only.

 

No SM wants to hear from a parent about the failings of their perfect child.  No SM wants the parents to show up at a troop/patrol meeting and be greeted by semi-chaotic activity going on all around them.

 

Keep it in mind, even with all the organizational time and effort that goes into burning out SM's, it's still easier than turning control of the chaos over to the boys to figure out and decide.

 

But it's worth it because the scouts get more out of it.

Back.

One concern is tring to change the culture, and the Scouts just going along with it without them thinking about it, offering ideas to improve, etc. Basicically being a bunch of automatons, and going along with it. I want them to OWN the change. Not be just adult led. Hence the 'Balance" in the title.

Ok,I'll be back

I know on the HS level, sports counted as a PE class, and band was a music class. It affected your grades.

But a club sport?

My oldest had something similar happen.His martial arts class started demanding he compete in compitions, attend workshops, etc. And that was way too much for a 7 year old.

Way my old troop ran the SPL job, he ran it all. He made sure everyone did their job. He mentored and counseled PLs, made sure instructors were ready to go, etc. More organizational and planning than hands on.

More later

Back.

My personal game plan is the following.

1) Talk to my friend who is suppose to take over. He's been with the troop since it was recreated, and has provided some vision as evidenced by us going to Philmont. But between his job, the Cub Scout pack, and upcoming nuptials, i do not think he has the time. So I want to talk and make sure I'm not stepping on anyones toes. Plus I will need his support with my evil plans

2) Talk to COR/CC about the switch.

3) If all approved, then talk to the Scouts. Try to get them to support the changes.