Eagle94-A1

My 5th grade teacher, who was a nun and worked at a summer retreat house. SHe would either lifeguard or backpack, depending upon the need.

I don't think that will happen. Venturing, which is already coed, does not give a parent exemption. Plus what about the girls who do not have a dad going?

Imagine how many boys will drop if they cannot go camping. We had one troop close down because they could not get enough volunteers to camp with the troop. The troop folded and the members went to 2 different troops, or quit completely. Heck my Webelos son didn't go on a pack lock in last night because "It's not camping."

Agree, the units own the problem and need to correct it. And agree sometimes records are illegible, have the wrong names, etc. But when a unit hand delivers computer generated reports to insure that the council is getting the reports to be entered into SCOUTNET, then the problem is on the council, not the unit. Don't get me started on volunteer applications. My wife filled out paperwork to work with the pack as a WDL, 3 times about 4 years ago. She was never registered. She filled it out in June, then again in September, then again December to get on the charter. We thought surely her application and YPT card would FINALLY make it on the charter. Didn't find out until April when the pack went to put her in for a Heroism Award that she was still not registered/ She said forget about registration as it is not worth the trouble.

The challenge with the BSA creating a parallel program for girls 11 (or 10 with AOL , etc) -18 is that we already have volunteers stating they will ignore that policy. While on paper there will be a separate girls only unit, in reality the girls will be integrated into the existing Boy Scout troop. Not only Scouters in my own troop said that, but Scouters at the town hall meeting on the topic stated it. And the Council Key 3 gave the impression that "yes, we know this is going to happen and don't care" from their body language. I admit I'm not an expert in developmental psychology. And it's been over 20 years since I took a course in the topic. But some of the things off the top of my head include: Writing style of literature. Let's face it boys and girls are different, and authors do write towards a specific population. Training for adults and Scouts. Been a while since I staffed JLT, so I do not know if Counseling is still part of the syllabus, but there are subtle difference in how to cousel boys and girls. And let's face it, all of the training deals with working with boys, except Sea Scouts and Venturing. Youth Protection. This is probably the biggest. Scuttlebut is that new YPT will be coming out for everyone, including Scouts, and it will be based upon Venturing's YPT since it deals with coed issues. We all know that there will be units that go fully coed with the parallel units meetings, camping, etc at the same time with the same Scouters. What will happen when the "girls' unit" doesn't have a female Scouter to camp with them? Will the 2 units cancel the trip, only the "Boys' unit" can go and the girls cannot, or will they do something that one Scouter said he would do: turn the camp out into a "Family Camp Out" so that as long as a dad goes, the daughter can go too? Yes, I've already had a Scouter state that scenario. There are other issues that escape me at the moment. I'll revisit as I can think of them. In the videos they showed at the Townhalls, the suggestion was to either work with an existing group to offer girls a more Boy Scout program, or BSA create their own, all girl program for 11 - 18 year olds. Some countries WOSM do just that. When I worked with Finnish Scouts back in the day, their program was coed at the Cub level, then split into separate Boy Scouts and Girls Scouts ( or maybe Guides, don't remember all the details), then coed Venturing age program. It worked for them because the Boy Scouts and Girls Scouts in Finland merged together. They keep the traditions and ranks of both programs at the Boy Scout level, which is wider known and respected than Cub level. I agree GSUSA will not work with us. And despite Campfire being created by BSA founders in 1910 as a parallel program for girls, they wen their own way a long time ago. American Heritage Girls will no longer work with us since the membership policies changed. AHG would have been the ideal group to merge with since their program DID copy the BSA's to the point that their girls and volunteers could attend BSA events and training and receive an equivalent award or recognition. However one of the challenges with the AHG troop that my CO chartered was a lack of female volunteers to take them camping. WOW. Either you got a new application by mistake, or national hasn't updated their website since they still have the 115 (January 2015) application is still up their. I also noticed that Lions, which is supposedly a pilot program still, is listed on the 717 application. I really believe the decision is made, and as my sources have told me, the announcement will be made in January. It's been mentioned that Varsity will cease to exist as of January 1, 2018. Why do I believe that national had that decision made a while ago too?

I'm opposed because the program will need to be changed to incorporate girls in Scouting, and that takes away from the boys. Whatever you think about the various studies on whether single gender or coed education and programs are better for youth or not, the BSA's program is geared for them. A parallel program already exists, GSUSA, and from what I keep hearing it sucks. I think GSUSA needs to change how they do things to attract the girls who want to be in Boy Scouts. But let's face reality. The decision has already been made. If it was not made already, then why is BSA going on a major "Scouting is for the Family" i.e. Scouting Magazine's article on family camping (which was horribly out of place IMHO), national is promoting, "Camp with the Fam" with the scout shops, CS promo materials have sisters in the pics, and the video promo with the single mom family with the sister doing activities with her now Boy Scout brother. Call me a cynic, but the decision has already been made, they just have not announced it yet (January 2 sources have told me). And whether BSA wants it or not THERE WILL BE FULLY INTEGRATED CUB SCOUT DENS AND INTEGRATED TROOPS (caps for emphasis) I've already commented on this topic in other threads, and it came up at roundtable. There are not enough volunteers to have segregated dens and/or troops.

BSA does not have a national coed Cub Scout and Boy Scout program, YET (emphasis, Gut feeling is the decision is made and waiting for people to get use to the idea with all the family scouting oriented articles and camp promotions that has been coming out of late i.e. Scouting Magazine, newest Scouting promo video, ad nauseum. But scuttlebutt is that there are some districts/councils piloting coed Cub Scouts. I t would be interesting to here from those areas, if that is the case. Personally I do know of 1 family that will either leave the pack and do Lone Cub Scouts, or suck it up for a few months until the Cub Crosses Over. The troop he is joining has already stated that they will fold before allowing girls into the program. It is an outreach ministry of their church, and the church has said "NO!" (emphasis as that was in the conversation). I know my oldest 2 are not in favor of going coed. I haven't told them that several adults in the troop are chomping at the bit to get their girls in. Don't know if they will stay or transfer to the male only troop.

With all due respect, up until circa 1995 or 96, Varsity was in fact sports oriented. From 1982 or 83 until 1989, the only way for a Varsity Scout to earn the "Varsity Letter" needed for the Denali Award was to earn one of the Varsity Pins, which were all sports oriented;baseball, basketball, etc. In 1989, Venture crews replaced the Leadership Corps for older Boy Scouts. The Varsity letter became the "Varsity/Venture Letter," or "Venture/Varsity Letter" depending upon which book you read (I've seen it as both in BSA literature), and new high adventure oriented pins were created for Venture crews only. Varsity Scouts could only earn the Varsity Pins (sports oriented), and Boy Scouts in Venture crews could only earn the Venture Pins (traditional Scouting). Sometime around 1995 or 1996, Varsity Scouts and Boy Scouts in Venture crews could earn any of the pins: Varsity or Venture. That policy lasted after Venture crews became Venture patrols in 1998 with the introduction of Venturing, until 2016 The Boy Scout/Varsity Scout Uniform Inspection Sheet 2016 Printing Still had it listed as "Venture/Varsity Letter" http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34283.pdf. Now Venture patrols are called "Older Scout Patrols." Having worked in a National Scout shop part time for 1 year, and FT for 2 years, the only time we ever sold any of the pins, and the manager said it was the only time the pins were sold, was to a summer camp staff trying to promote a HA program at the camp. He was using the letter and pins as part of his display.

No the council did not mention it's mandatory, or strongly encouraged it. If it was mandatory, or strongly encouraged, The Scout Exec would have told me when I mentioned how records were not being recorded. Problem where we are at is some folks are out in the boonies. High speed internet is not available in some areas. And the internet companies are no help either. Remember that FCC ruling saying a government utility service could provide internet service outside their city limits, and SCOTUS later stated the FCC ruling violated law? That was one of the cities in my council trying to expand the high speed internet service to areas in the county because internet providers would not do it. I had to do live YPT for some folks because they could not do it online in a reasonable time. To test it our, I tried to redo my YPT at their facility, and I was unable to get through the first 10 minutes of the online training in 90 minutes!

Am I the only one who has a council that has major issues with advancement records? Back when I was working with a pack, I would be the one turning in ARs and buying advancement because I worked about 10 minutes from a neighboring council's office. After my council sent a duplicate order of awards, I would write "DO NOT SEND AWARDS" (sic) and 1/2 the time they would send a second batch. BUT THE AWARDS WOULD NOT BE RECORDED IN THE COUNCIL'S RECORDS (emphasis) I remember hand delivering records to my council's office. Buy the awards. but once I got access to Internet Advancement, I discovered THE AWARDS WOULD NOT BE RECORDED IN THE COUNCIL'S RECORDS (emphasis). I got into a heated discussion with the SE on this matter. He was jumping on my district's case about not having Cub Scout advancement on par with other districts. I told him about the instances above and said he needed to look at the council office. That's when other commissioners pointed out similar problems with those units that didn't do Internet Advancement. Apparently the council focused on Boy Scout advancement since it had to be reviewed in order to get Eagle. Cub Scouts not so much. Since the person who did advancement with the troop stepped down, I picked it up. He didn't do IA. Going through it, I discovered all the new guys who earned Scout do not have it in their records. I'm wondering if Scout ranks were not recorded since they were originally not ranks per se.

Has anyone else got an email from Scoutstuff.org about 'Camping with the Fam," or seen their Family Camping Events promo on the homepage? Grant you most of the gear they are pushing has the Cub Scout logo, but they are pushing family big time. I think the decision has been made. On a different note, I may start backing away from the troop. There is a wilderness survival camp out and we have one family saying they will attend. If the Cub was a Webelos, i'd be cool since it's A) Meeting Castaway requirements, and B) It's recruiting. But the little brother is a Tiger, and ran around interferring last time. When I talked to the scouter heading up the trip about it, he had no problem with the family attending. When I mentioned it's going to be interesting with the family staying in a survival shelter, the comment was "Leaders can stay in tents." I was always taught that the Scouters do the same things as the Scouts.

EXACTLY! The Scouts know who do the jobs and who don't better than the adults do. Me personally, I wish the troop my boys are in would allow reelections. After 6 months, they have to step down and either A) run for a different position or B) wait until the next election to get back in.

With all due respect Latin Scot, multiple BSA sources say units, specifically the SM, Skipper, Coach or Adviser, can indeed limit who the Scout or Venturer has as a MBC by designating a specific counselor for them to use. From http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/GuideforMeritBadgeCounselors/MBCounselorGuide.aspx "A Scout first expresses an interest in a particular merit badge by letting his unit leader know. To get him started, the leader gives him a signed Application for Merit Badge (blue card) along with the name and contact information for a district/council approved merit badge counselor. " ( bold for emphasis here and after) Also check out http://councils.scouting.org/scoutsource/Scouting/Training/Adult/Supplemental/MeritBadgeCounselorInstructorsGuide.aspx?print=1 "When a Scout has decided on a merit badge he would like to earn, he obtains from his Scoutmaster the name and phone number of the district/council-approved merit badge counselor." From here: http://councils.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/18-125.pdf "3. The Scout indicates his interest in a merit badge to his Scoutmaster, who gives him a. An interview to determine interest, enthusiasm, preparedness b. A signed Application for Merit Badge c. The name and phone number of the council/district approved counselor." From here: http://councils.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34405.pdf "Instructions to Counselors • The unit leader (Scoutmaster, Varsity Coach, crew Advisor, or Skipper) recommends and provides the name and contact information of at least one merit badge counselor to each Scout desiring to work on a merit badge." So if the SM doesn't want the parents to teach the MB, then the SM assigns a different MBC to use. And I can understand why a unit would not want the parents to be their son's MBC. They can be too easy or too hard. Sadly their was an issue in my council a number of years back with one "Eagle." With the exception on MBs earned at summer camp, all MBs were done with Grandpa, Mom, and Dad, who held CC, SM, and ASM positions in the troop. They just signed them off, giving them to him. The issue became known at the Eagle BOR. Long story short, he was denied his Eagle, and given a plan to rectify the situation. Family appealed all the way up to national. In the response from national granting him Eagle on appeal, the comment "You do not penalize the Scout for the errors of the adults involved." As a result, the entire district advancement committee resigned in protest. When I talked to the "Eagle" a few months later, he was like a deer in the headlights when I asked him about some things he should have done for multiple MBs. I was not trying test him, but being new to the area and a Indian Lore MBC, I was trying to get sources for local Indians. From that conversation, I could see why the Eagle was originally denied. On the opposite extreme, you got the hardnosed parents who demand more from their Scouts than others. I admit that is me. When my son got a partial from summer camp for a MB he actually completed (found out another Scout was in the same boat), I worked with him to complete the missing requirement and let him talk to his SM to finish it off instead of me. SM commented how I was harder on him than the other Scouts I worked with on the same MB. And really that goes all the way back to the first MBs he earned. He went to a MBU and took 2 MBs. One he legitimately earned. The other they gave him. Not only did the MBC use out of date requirements (8-10 year old if memory serves), the MBC didn't even do ALL of the requirements. I discussed the situation with my son, and had him complete the missing MB requirements. He was not happy with me at the time. But he understands why I did it. He's upset that folks have "earned" one particular MB at summer camp without completing all of the requirements. His MBC at home wants him to truly earn it. It's been 2 years since he started it, and now that he actually finished the one missing requirement, he has a blase' attitude about it since so many "earned" it.

No, you can NOT go wrong with bacon and chocolate. My "secret ingredient" is only in my current neck of the woods. Back home it was a staple: Tony Chachere's seasoning salt. We used it for everything. Another one, when I can get it, is coffee with chicory. Heat up some evaporated milk and make some Cafe au Lait.

What state was this in? Again local laws may mandate an age.

Every chapter and lodge is different. And things are cyclical. Sometimes a chapter is on top of the world. And other times, it's the last priority. Currently the OA chapter in my district is on the downswing. The really motivated youth aged out and/or went to college. The advisors that were the glue tot he leadership either got burned out, moved, had kids age out, or in my case, had kids in Cub Scouts. Now the chapter is a shadow of itself, and folks have no interest, including my son.

My local UW still only does designations to the local council. Been that way since the SCOTUS decision.

We have a volunteer who is upset because the same people appear to get elected SPL and PLs. He wants to appoint all positions. IT DOES NOT WORK! (emphasis). Some Scouts who are appointed have no interest in the POR and could care less. Some Scouts who are interested, but do not have the knowledge, skills or abilities to do it. Other Scouts, seeing this then act indifferent or with disrespect towards them. Long story short, the troop slowly dies. I've seen one troop do just that. As soon as the new SM started appointing PLs and the SPL so that "everyone gets a chance," the troop started losing members to other troops, or outright quitting.

A 37.5% increase is HUGE. On top of that, some councils like mine add an insurance fee. And other councils are charging a surcharge. For those of us on a tight budget, it adds up FAST. At one time all 5 in my family were supposed to be registered. $9 x 5 = $45 extra, That may not seem like a lot, but for some of us it is. And in the manner national has been making these pronouncements, that is extremely troubling. Yes, I drink the company's bug juice from time to time. I am a former pro and understand some of the things they do. But this is ridiculous.

Initially this was going to be a rant. But instead this is a proud dad moment. My son is currently the SPL. Last month the theme was canoeing. For a variety of reasons, only 2 weeks were spent on the theme before the camp out and then moving onto wilderness survival. One of the new cross over parents posted a picture from the weekend, and the comment that they need to finish the canoeing MB and the youth leaders need to set it up and get the troop to finish what they started. Several of the new parents liked the comment. My son replied that unfortunately they already have things planned that the Scouts need to get ready for, specifically the next camp out and the camporee. I think my son handled it professionally and courteously. very glad about that. Here's the irony. While the goal was not to earn Canoeing MB, he did plan on spending more than 2 meetings on the topic before the camp out so it would be possible for some to finish it. Adults coming up with last minute stuff interfered with those plans.

All the above. Grant you, I do have one Smokey that I only use for special occasions, i.e. BnGs, COHs, banquets, etc. But my primary has been through numerous meetings, camp outs, hikes, and yes pre and post meeting errands. It's survived a hurricane, been shot at by German Scouts, and went to a WSJ with me.

Back when Cub Scouts was a 3 year program. I was bored out of my gourd until Webelos. Thankfully there have been major improvements, especially since Cubs can now camp. But 4.5 years, now 5.5 years with Lions is LLLLOONNNGGG I did 6 years as a DL and I burned out. Part of that was the lack of help from the parents and grandparents with my 3rd TC den. But part of that is being a CS leader is extremely tiring. Trying to keep that energy up to keep them interested and active and having fun is exhausting. Thankfully the kids put up with my stories as a Scout. And I took them to Boy Scout activities, specifically the Boy Scout areas of the council camporees, to see what they will be doing in a few years. That kept mine motivated.

Agreed. And I mentioned the scenario above at the council meeting. It appeared that everyone in the room agreed that will happen. At least one other attendee commented that it would probably also happen with their troop due to small numbers and lack of volunteers. Council key 3 appeared to have agreed with the assessment and moved on to the next question.

Glad the gangs are are helping. I heard a story about the Cajun Navy volunteer getting shot at by looters, and I had it confirmed from an elementary school friend involved that there is a section of Houston they and the Texas Navy will no longer go to because the looters shot at them in an attempt to steal the boats. They are letting the sheriffs' deputies and USCG deal with the rescues in that area. Praying for you guys.

If pioneering is no longer considered Scoutcraft in 2017, then why is basic pioneeringskills still required for Scout, Tenderfoot,Second Class and First Class ranks as well as a Pioneering Merit Badge, designed for 12 year olds as you mentioned, still around? Pioneering is still a traditional Scoutcraft skill, still required for advancement, has the potential to keep older Scouts involved if given the chance, AND had relevance in the 21st Century. Don't believe pioneering is relevant in the 21st? Ask the NASA astronaut who lashed the Space Shuttle's broken arm intoplace so that they could return to Earth. Yes the OP has been answered. Sadly you and the rest of national do not see the point. The rules and regs are sucking the lifeblood out of Scouting.The ban on water guns made us a laughing stock nationally, and is ignored not only by volunteers but also professionals. At the one day camp, the DE said "Waterguns are no longered allowed by the BSA. So bring your personal water soaking devices to cool down.: The ban are wagons for under 14 and service projects caused a bunch of 8 year old Bears to laugh when I told htem about it. Yes, a bunch of 8 year olds thought the rule was a joke. Look at the restrictions on power tools. You do realize that Girl Scouts can use powertools, but we cannot ? https://www.kansasgirlscouts.org/content/dam/kansasgirlscouts/documents/All%20Safety-Activity%20Checkpoints.pdf Maybe should quit as a volunteer now. I should have realized when I worked for national back in the day that the powers that be do not listen to those of us with boots still on the ground until after the mistakes are made and a solution is needed to fix problems.