DuctTape

or maybe something like traditional woodcraft type outdoorsmen ala Sears, Kreps, Hastings, Kephart. Since Kephart is likely the most well known, call it "The Kephart Society." Keeping the OA as its roots, the acronym could be O.A.K.S. If OA is rebranded, perhaps return membership to a place of honor; reserved only for the "all -stars".

It is interesting that so many of the solutions to obstacles are really just using the Patrol Method!

Agreed. Also, high adventure opportunities would still exist. A patrol could still plan a canoe trip to the Boundary Waters, or a backpacking along the AT, PCT CDT, etc. One might argue it would be better as the decisions and planning necessary for a patrol to embark on a HA trip would help scouts grow. If they wanted to just "pay money for the services" like current BSA HA, there already exist many outfitters and guide services to fill that void. Though I would encourage all adults to steer scouts towards planning and executing their own adventures, even the high adventure ones.

Might I suggest holding off on adults putting forth ideas and wait for the scouts to ask? A simple reminder from the SM to the SPL that "if they are stuck, he is willing to help with a suggestion or two". Even during these times, maintaining the Patrol Method, scout-led, and other structural devices is important. Knowing the different adult roles, and how to not over-step is key. Scouts and adults have different roles, and adults should be careful to not blur the lines.

Have you asked the PLC what they are planning? It is their Court after all.

I have never heard that distinction before. I thought Lone Scouts was developed for those scouts who were unable to find a local troop due to geographical isolation. My grandfather grew up dirt poor in Maine (his father was peddler too) he was involved in a Boy Scout troop in his town. I wonder if your dad's experience was a local phenomenon. I have never heard that distinction before. I thought Lone Scouts was developed for those scouts who were unable to find a local troop due to geographical isolation. My grandfather grew up dirt poor in Maine (his father was peddler too) he was

Considering that camping is an integral part of scouting, one wonders why they are in scouting to begin with? Why join little league if one doesn't like baseball. Sure scouts is much more than a camping club, but camping is a fundamental part of the program. I also wonder how many of those adults who made those statements enjoy camping. My guess, is they do not and it rubs off on the scouts. They probably also don't know how to have fun camping.

Just because something is popular doesn't make it right. mB factories are popular b/c it makes it too easy. Not necessarily the requirements (although this is true in many cases) but the process being circumvented. The process is as much a part of providing scouts growth opportunities not to mention the loss of adult association as a result of large groups. How often do we say, "don't do for a scout that which they can do for themselves"; doing all the planning, communicating, logistics of a mB session for a scout is a denial of opportunity. Yes it may be popular, but so woul

Maybe COs are not "sacred cows" in the strictest sense. They are, however, a historical part of our structure which brings its own problems. COs who do not provide any guidance/direction whereby units are so independent that they make it up as they go along and do not provide anything resembling the BSA program. The flip side is those COs who provide too much guidance/control and directs the units to do "their program" and not BSA. With zero oversight by BSA units and their leaders often have scouting, but not BSA Scouting. The contrast to the GSUSA model which has its own problems (as no

I see this a lot, but IMO is a symptom of failure to use the Patrol Method. The idea that a patrol cannot do a specific activity unless the rest of the troop is able to attend is the antithesis of the patrol method. The future of Scouts should be Patrols. A lot of discussion has been about structural changes. Start with patrols and design the rest of "next-generation-scouting" with the primary (sole?) purpose of engaging scouts in their patrols. I would even consider tossing "troops" and "packs" out the window. All scouting is done at the patrol and den level first. Maybe once/twi

I think one of the sacred cows will need to be the Chartering Organization concept as the "middle man" in the bureaucracy. Authority of Scouting units will need to be controlled by BSA and not outsourced to a CO. There could still be a relationship of some sort with these other organizations but final authority and control will need to lie with BSA. edit: as far as recharter, the problem was an amalgamation of re-charter and membership. These are two separate items and need not exist together as paperwork. The Charter (if it continues) is an agreement between a CO and the BSA and

ummm, no thank you.

This will require significant training of parents to not interfere by "stopping by to visit" or "bringing treats", etc... As it stands, parents are allowed to view all program, so nothing bars them from interference except training them to not interfere. But I suspect, that is truly what many parents want (b/c they do not understand the real purpose of Scouts) so to suggest program will not change is folly.

According to this, troops have been out of compliance whenever they invite webelos dens (from another CO) to visit, or camp. IMO whomever wrote the Q/A, had a pre-determined answer and then just tried to justify it without realizing the implications. The easiest answer would have been: "Yes, however each of the units is still responsible to their own CO. A unit may invite individual members to visit, and participate in the unit's activities."

Maybe the lack of mBs and no dining halls will allow scouts to have a real summer camp as described by BP instead of simply "living under canvas".

Great article. I followed an embedded link to the other article about UVaS Scoutmaster training. Reading the content summary of that course should shame anyone who considers current scoutmaster training adequate.

From my experience, the saturation of those with adult-led scouting experience happened a long long time ago. With them it is even more difficult (impossible) to break them of that habit/belief. Most do not even realize it and will just respond with " well that's how my old troop did it." While I agree with Barry that an excellent patrol method, scout-led, scouting program will manifest as adults who are better able to provide a quality scouting program compared to those with little/no experience; those with a adult-led scouting experience are much much worse than those with little/no exp

Are you saying they didn't just go to LicenseUniv and sit through a 1 hr presentation where they (maybe) "participated" in the discussion resulting in the DMV Commissioner granting the license?

If the purpose is for youth protection barriers to abuse as stated, then a mbc fits the criteria if unit leadership says "ok" regardless of paperwork. If not, then it really isnt about barriers to abuse.

While a MBC may not be designed to replace the direct contact leadership needs, a MBC as a second trained adult certainly fulfills the needs of youth protection barriers to abuse.

I agree with you about leadership development as an aim, which follows from the methods. I do not distinguish which method leads to a specific aim, as I believe they all have a role. I accept arguments that some methods may contribute more to certain aims, but it is not not a one-to-one relationship. I disagree with advancement being a goal and not a method. I agree that patrol activities will allow a scout to advance. As mentionrd, I see the methods working in concert with each other. As a method I see advancement as motivator, and an organizational structure. When advancement is u

@desertrat77... your experience is a shining example of how the methods are used together. In this case advancement, personal growth, ideals and adult association.

This thread reminds me of a maxim my father used to say to me. "just because you can, does not mean you should."

Are the scouts not interested or just not seem to be interested? Appearances can be deceiving. I would start by having a conversation with the scout... "Hi Jimmy", good to see you. I have noticed you haven't been to our last couple of activities. We missed you. Everything going ok?"

so now we are pencil-whipping scouters with training. makes sense. 😢