Brewmeister

We've done different things on different outings. You know, base, sometimes I wonder if you're even actually in scouting or just like to hang out here to create arguments and insult people. I mean, on one hand you literally called KDD a "candy a**," direct quote, which is hardly scoutlike. And now you're getting all over my a** for not being one. I just get this vision of a "basementdweller" who is in his basement in his jammies furiously typing on his computer on multiple forums, because you sure seem to have ample time to spend online versus being out in the woods (or the 'hood).

Danger, Will Robinson! Violator! Violator! On one hand we have people in these forums complaining that scouting sucks and everything is to prissy. On the other hand everybody is afraid to leave the school gymnasium because the G2SS doesn't say they can. I prefer your approach. Just do what the boys want to do and keep everything above board with the parents. We did den camping all the time when my son was a Cub, starting at the (GASP!) Wolf level. That's not following the guidelines either....

"Hey mom and dad, the local nature center has a program where we can go canoeing for a small fee. The only issue is it can't be a scout outing because the scouts can't officially go canoeing at this age so there's no coverage for BSA liability." It doesn't go on the calendar, or the unit website, or whatever. Ditto for paintball...lazer tag...I forgot about trap shooting we've done as well (with actual guns and everything!)...or any manner of activities where, just like in every other area of your life, people who know each other get together...the kids from your son's football team...church group...birthday parties....etc etc etc etc etc Don't over-complicate it....if you spend your life fearing lawyers you'll never do anything fun.

It was a den outing that we just ran off the grid. The same way we took the Webelos to play lazer tag, and the same way we take our troop to play paintball. I'm sure that will make many heads explode here.

Yeah, we sorta ignored that whole no-canoeing guideline thing when my son was a cub... Remember that the "G" in G2SS stands for Guide...

Our pack was up, more than double from last year, and the best year ever in its history, despite declining school enrollment.

Just to clarify, I am quoting in full an article by Clarke Greene, from scoutmastercg.com, who I think has a great vision for implementing traditional, boy-led, patrol-based scouting in a modern era.

If you log in to your scouting.org account and go to the online training section, the venturing YPT training will be an option. It will be a separate tab.

http://www.scoutmastercg.com/nostalg...e-of-scouting/ Some think we've diminished the ideals of ’manliness’ , traditional patriotism, bootstrap initiative, competitiveness and rigor in achievement but have they really examined what those ideas actually mean? Scouting does not consider that these things are scarce, unobtainable qualities, but that each individual Scout has vast potential to develop them . We wrangle and argue over measurements; what is ‘true’ manliness, patriotism, achievement? Instead of a system of measurement Scouting sets a star to travel by: the full realization of each individual Scout’s potential. Our principal aim is that individual ideal; interdependent, useful human beings who become active citizens and make the world a better place. Detractors invoke creeping ‘political correctness’ and suggest that we have watered down our decisiveness and morality. This old chestnut of an argument was used to condemn innovation and change since the dawn of civilization; “Romans are so trendy and effete – what ever happened to good old Etruscans?†In their opinion all we have to do is reprint the original edition of the Scout handbook and return to our imagined ideal past that, of course, never existed. Nostalgia is pleasant, but it is not history. Our forebears had to muddle through the same sorts of flaws and pressures we encounter. They did there best and so can we. Scouting has always been, and will always remain, something that principally happens when we are out-of-doors camping and trekking our way through the natural world. This is our tradition, but we don’t do follow tradition blindly. We don’t go camping as a romantic, aesthetic, throwback to the good old days. We go camping because it is the most useful way to achieve the aims of Scouting. We use patrols and engage youth in leadership not because it’s a quaint, anachronistic, tradition but because that’s how we achieve the aims of Scouting. Most importantly we do these things because that is what our Scouts want to do! Despite a century of societal and cultural changes there’s not much difference between present day Scouts and those few that camped out on Brownsea island at the dawn of the Scouting movement. That’s our past, present and future all rolled into one. Our Scouts neither need, nor do they particularly want, big flashy programs and entertainments. We aren't trying to entertain, we want to engage our Scouts. Scouting is relevant, and it will always be, so long as we don’t make it into a historic re-enactment, blindly follow tradition, and resist the temptation to misdirect it’s simple intentions. Scouting is not about recreating the past, we are looking toward the future.

Well, you have hit on the exact problem then, haven't you? If you do not have scouts who are willing to put the time into the position--in terms of training, planning, enthusiasm, and overall responsibility and effort--then the problem is with the scouts (which ultimately falls back to the units--Troop and Pack), not with the position. Hopefully some day you will work with a den chief who fulfills the position of responsibility as it is designed and trained.

Yes but it is really impractical to haul the two-burner camp stove, 20 pound propane tank, kitchen box requiring 4 pallbearers, dutch ovens, and 20-foot dining fly into the wilderness.

Boys simply do not have time to "hang out" at camp any more. Every activity youth are involved in these days must have a clearly defined outcome--an objective with awards, trophies, and things to put on a college resume. This has spilled to scouting and its frenetic quest for advancement. The question is no longer when are we going camping, but WHY? Youth are not only over-scheduled, they are over-specialized. If you're not in a sport by the time you're 10 it's much, much too late. At the same time, participation in youth sports have taken a nose dive, particularly in baseball, as the emphasis on specialization has increased. By high school, 70 percent of youth no longer participate in a sport they had when they were younger. Participation peaks when youth are 11. Do you see a parallel to scouting? At least our program doesn't have a 70 percent drop-off. This is also behind the death of scoutcraft in the program. Parents--who ultimately have always made the decision as to whether their sons can be part of the program--simply don't see the value. But they do see the value of a merit badge patch or rank badge.

Proof that some things never change?

Yes. I must apparently post at least 10 characters so here is the answer again: yes.

First of all, it's a POR, not a POL. Responsibility. And while I hesitate to dump on any PORs in blanket statements, being even a mediocre Den Chief would require WAY more responsibility simply by virtue of showing up at Den and Pack meetings than the troop bugler, librarian, or other positions. I will agree with you that "they need to actually hold the position and fulfill the responsibility before it gets checked." After all, isn't that supposed to be the way it is? The Den Chief takes on the role; the DL/CM and SM communicate to make sure the responsibility is fulfilled. That's why all those signature areas are in the Den Chief Handbook, after all. (You do have that, right?) Your typical mode of operation is to throw a wet blanket of sarcasm over everything that doesn't live up to your personal expectations, but in this case, the fault is that the Den Chiefs you have experienced are not living up to the position as it is written and designed. Den Chief is decidedly NOT a "minimal responsibility" position, and if it is being treated that way by Den Chiefs and units they are doing a disservice to the position, as well as the boys.

Woodward, have you taken position-specific training? If not, you should do so, right away. You seem to have a lot of confusion about the role of the Cubmaster.

What you describe sounds pretty much like the optimal Cubmaster role...just being the "program guy" and MC of meetings. Usually the complaint runs the other way around--the Cubmaster is expected to run the pack like a one-man show. I say be happy.

"It is a no responsibility, position of responsibility." Wow...seriously? That comment displays either ignorance or a lack of understanding of how the position should be implemented. Either way it's pretty dumb. Have you even looked at the criteria for achieving the National Den Chief award, or looked over the Den Chief Handbook to see what the responsibilities are? In the interest of full disclosure my son has been a Den Chief for a year. He started with a day's worth of in-person training through the council. He attends not just troop meetings with the rest of the troop, but also ALL Den meetings and ALL Pack meetings--in other words, twice the amount of time that other PORs who just come to troop meetings spend. He prepares activities for meetings. He coordinates with the Den leader via phone or email in between meetings. Sounds pretty responsible to me. In fact, I'd put it second only to the SPL in terms of the amount of responsibility--and more than SPL in terms of time. Read the handbook, look at the training, and if the position isn't being done right, follow your own advice for a change and "fix your own unit." Jeez...

As luck would have it: http://www.scoutmastercg.com/sawyer-3-way-water-filter-review/?fb_source=pubv1 Looks like I can easily retrofit the system to put the filter outside the bag and use the bag as just a reservoir. What are the thoughts on the Sawyer system? Says 0.1 micron.

I've been using the Seychelle water bottle "scoop and go" for a while now and it does well...or at least I haven't gotten any ill effects...

Interesting stuff in here for the group: http://www.americanbible.org/uploads/content/State%20of%20the%20Bible%20Report%202013.pdf Although down 4 points from the last study, I am surprised--and a bit skeptical--that 88% of households own a Bible.

So are you using the bag alone, "scoop and drink," or in connection with another filtering device?

Well that stinks. Good thing we had a backup ("Be Prepared!"). The supposedly clogged filter works fine in a hand pump so it's just the gravity feed I guess. The Seychelle one is only the cost of a replacement Katadyn filter. I think I'll try one of those. I have a Seychelle filter water bottle that works very well.

Anyone use one of these? After reading some good reviews of these I bought one. Tried it at home and it worked great. Took it on a backpacking trip, and we had a hand pump along also as a backup that used the same filter. Bag worked great for a few days--probably 6 gallons of filtered water--then slowed to a useless dribble. Assumed the filter was sediment plugged even though it looked fine. Swapped out the new filter from the hand pump and it was working again. But here's the thing--we put the supposedly "clogged" filter from the Base Camp bag into the hand pump and it worked fine. So...??? Does the hand pump just have that much more suction power to draw water through the filter?

I took Wood Badge because I believe it is incumbent on all adult leaders in the program to avail themselves of training, and this was described as the "mountaintop experience." However, it is much more "how to succeed in your job" than "how to be a better scout leader." I can't say I've put much of it to use as an ASM. The biggest benefit to having done Wood Badge is the people I have met who have proven to be valuable resources. I have found new opportunities for our scouts that I did not know were out there and have brought additional resources to the troop as well. It is possible that this could have been done over time through regular networking, roundtables, etc., but it was more likely to happen through the course setting. I keep in regular contact with one of my patrol-mates as well as our Troop Guide from the course.