Brewmeister

Units don't control the youth's membership with BSA, which is why a youth can be a member of multiple units but will still have the same ID number. A unit can kick a youth off the unit roster but the boy is still a member unless national revokes membership.

Welcome to the hanging club! You'll have to report how you like the way it hangs/lays. Since it does not have the structural ridge line of something like a Hennessey I think you will need to hang it loose to keep it stable (so it doesn't flip over). So, that might also give you more of the "banana" feel when you lay in it. Not sure because I haven't tried one but it's a nice price point if it works so let us know.

That's what happens when human nature meets a program with no objective standards for the top prize. Sports, academics, almost every other youth activity--all can be objectively judged by how one boy performs against another. The one who is the most skilled earns the starting role and is team captain. The marker to scouting progress is not as clear as yards gained, touchdowns scored, or math problems answered correctly. That leads to the problems you describe.

Well if you consider where this thread started it was that I felt there was a lack of continuity and teamwork because of the need to combine patrols--the disconnect between troop meetings and outings. Based on the suggestions made and questions asked, it became clear that the problem wasn't necessarily low attendance, but too many small patrols so that any drop off would necessitate recombination (or a bunch of very small patrols). I know that VeniVidi recommended against reorganizing the patrols because "the groundwork hasn't been laid." However, right now the patrols are neither well-functioning nor cohesive, so what's the risk? Additionally, we took the opportunity to lay the groundwork and the reasons for it with the boys at the campout. As to the life lesson the boys will learn from this? We simply haven't flown up to the 30,000 foot mark to figure out how this fits into the grand scheme of their lives. At this point it really is a tactical solution targeted at a specific objective/problem. It will either work, or it won't, and we'll either be better off or right where we are now. So, that's the thinking.

I understand that you're critical of our program and I accept that, but we have to start from somewhere. Up until now the boys have had zero input into the way the patrols were structured b/c they have been age based. Combined/ad hoc patrols at campouts have done little to promote team building or continuity. They appreciated the opportunity to have input into the process, finally, and I think their observations were remarkably astute. Will it work? I don't know, but it can always be changed. From my point of view, it has a better chance of success in cultivating teamwork and leadership than we have now. And if it doesn't we are no worse off than we are today.

I talked to the boys about this at our campout this past weekend. I explained the reason we thought the patrols should be reformed and they agreed. I asked them how they thought we should do that, and after coming up with a few different ideas they unanimously agreed "at random." I tried to play devil's advocate and asked them, well, what happens if you randomly get separated from your better friends in the troop or put with boys you don't like as much? They said well, that's just the way it works--you have to learn to work with people you don't get along with. So....random it may be. Although I believe we should "randomly" draw by ages so that ages are at least somewhat distributed among the patrols for competitions that involve physical skill and so on. I'm sure there will be many differences of opinion....

For the stove I have it is a basic USB port, and the OP's stove looks the same. So, I just pack along my iPhone charging cord.

Not a new problem and not unique to your troop. Ultimately you can only control what you can control and trying to do otherwise will drive you nuts. What is your son doing with the badges that aren't completely earned? Ask him what he thinks he should do, if anything, and use it as an opportunity for growth.

Love it...

I don't use this but I do use a BioLite stove: http://www.biolitestove.com/ Really, weighs about the same as a backpack stove plus fuel bottle, and it burns whatever twigs you find lying around. And it charges your cell phone. Yeah it's not necessary but it does have the cool factor going for it...

Some things may be technically ok but you know in your heart they're wrong. This is one of those things. Just doesn't pass the smell test. Why not do a potluck? When we have a committee meeting in the summer we have it at one of the committee member's houses. We grill out, everyone brings something. I mean, the committee members are NOT incurring an expense they wouldn't have had anyway. They would have eaten with or without the committee meeting, right? It's not an extra expense. Let's see, we could also: -Bill the Pack for mileage -Ask for a uniform reimbursement -Turn in a pro-rated bill for my utilities for every time I send an email to the Pack I'm sure I could think of a few more things too. If it doesn't go directly into the program, I look pretty hard at the expense. If in doubt, put it on the budget and make sure the parents have the opportunity to see it by virtue of it being presented at an open parent/committee meeting.

We had our first meeting for the new group of 21 Tigers (!) last night. By far our largest group ever. As part of the meeting we split them up into 3 dens. We had 6 leaders--3 DLs and 3 ADLs step up to lead the three dens. We've also filled more committee roles and added ADLs to the Wolf and Bear dens. This is MUCH better than things used to be back when I joined the Pack and it was a one-man show. I believe the reason for the growth in the number of boys is all the recruiters we have and the increased visibility of the program in the community, the latter of which accrues to the unit leaders. The reason for the increase in involved parents begins with the expectation that is set in the Tiger year as well as the visibility and enthusiasm of the parent volunteers at events, etc. It's never easy but momentum does build in a program, either positively or negatively.

Good advice all and some good thoughts to ponder. Can we drill down one more level to the pragmatic? So, you are at the next troop meeting and it is time to reorganize the patrols. You do...what? This is where I am stuck.

For the purposes of this particular question, the vision is getting the boys to function as proper patrols, the benefits of which are obvious and fundamental to scouting and which have been lacking because of being constantly stuck in the "forming" stage as pointed out. This is one more step in the direction of moving toward a boy led model. What we hope the boys leave the troop with is the stronger ability to take care of themselves and others in a variety of life situations, while living by the principles of the Oath and Law. As you point out, we need a process to point them toward that vision which, in this case, is represented by the need to form regular patrols. So, rather than simply say, "Go ye into the wilderness, formeth three patrols of thy own design, and returneth when thou knowest thy patrol name and yell," we'd like to provide said guidance....

Ok, so in reviewing the roster, some things became clear. When you discount boys who will probably fall off the roster this year because they have not been around, we have 24 active boys. So thinking back, our typical campout attendance is usually between 15-18. So we are actually pushing 75% which seems pretty typical--the problem is that we have 6 patrols as follows: 6 6th grade 6 7th grade 5 8th grade 3 9th grade 4 11th grade Therefore, the reason we usually end up with 3 ad hoc patrols is that it reflects the natural breakdown of what the troop should be; i.e., 3 patrols. I had a discussion with the SM and he agreed that having 3 patrols would be optimal and that we should let the boys self-organize into those patrols. Now this is a huge step for us--normally the troop plunks boys into a NSP and they stay together until the end. Ideally we'd see 3 patrols of 8, but...who knows what will happen. Reading the threads here, there seems to be as many ways of having boys organize their patrols as there are troops. I can't remember how we did it when I was a scout and if it was covered in leader training I either missed it or have forgotten it. I do believe that giving the scouts a parameter for the number of patrols desired (3) is the way to go. Yes, I've read the discussions in other threads about letting boys make as many as they want and learn from their mistakes but that's not what we're going to do. So with that backdrop, what are the ideas for having the boys reorganize into 3 patrols?

You and I are on the same page because that is exactly what I was thinking about this afternoon. I think part of the reason we have ad hoc patrols is our patrols have become too small due to attrition, particularly at the older levels (because they are age based). So...stay tuned.

The intent of my post was to ask troops that use ad hoc patrols--which I know are there--how it is done successfully, because of the problems I see with our troop as stated in the original post. I do not see the team building that we should have from regular patrols. So far from looking for validation that we are doing the best that can be expected, I am assuming that there must be a better way to do things. The cards that we are given--because I'm not a member of the key 3--is that ad hoc patrols are most likely a fact in this troop because of its history and culture. It may well be that the best answer is to re-deal the cards--to change the culture--but that is another discussion. Right now I am looking for insight into how to improve the situation with the stated constraints based on the experience of troops that run a similar program.

Hey, how about an update on this thread? So our first backpacking trip is in the books. As it turned out, we ended up with adults who came along for leadership needs who either had gear or thought the gear was cool enough so they bought it on their own. Over the summer we did a number of shakedown hikes where we tried out different stoves and recipes. Had a few "pocket rocket" stoves that worked just fine for our purposes. I had invested in a Katadyn base camp filter (different thread on that one) which worked well until it plugged up so we went to a backup that another dad brought along. Several of the boys had filter bottles as well which I am particularly fond of. Eschewed the dining fly and some of the older boys just slept under a tarp. Our group ended up being pretty small--6 boys and three adults. The age range in boys was quite wide and I worried that might be a problem. However the shakedown hikes had identified where the problems might be so we were prepared. On the actual trip it became readily apparent that the oldest boys had quite a bit more horsepower so we let that group go ahead up to the planned campsite for the day to set up and just explore, while the adults stayed back with the younger scouts and took it slow. That was a very good decision. Preparation paid off and we could probably go the beg-and-borrow model for gear for the next trip as well while the troop decides if it has the resources and the program appetite to supplement our current plop-camping supplies with lightweight gear. Admittedly I did a lot more of the planning than I normally would but the goal was to get this off the ground and try to move the boys in this direction by exposing them to the possibility and a successful outing. Hopefully in the future the boys experienced in this trip can take on much more of the logistics with a "remember when?" approach.

In case anyone was wondering how this turned out, we decided to just do basic knot tying for a few minutes--square knot and half hitches. A fire-building lesson with demos of flint & steel, charcloth, and 9v battery + steel wool. Finished with orienteering basics and a compass course. For a takeaway they all got one of those "survival tools"--the orange whistle/matchholder/compass thingy. Worked out well and the boys were a big hit with the girls, including the older ones, which they didn't seem to mind...

By "patrol of one" I meant the "one-boy patrol" mentioned earlier; not one bad patrol.

That unfortunately is where this troop falls short. But we must work with the cards we're given.

One more clarification. The patrols are not put together randomly. The senior patrol leader usually works with the camping group to combine existing controls. So each ad hoc patrol usually consists of members of two regular patrols

Regarding advancement, since the bulk of advancement happens on campouts, boys who cannot attend do not advance as fast and that is visible to the other boys. Regarding the Quality of program, if capping out at a 75% participation rate is not good, I'm not quite sure what we would do. The boys are the ones choosing and planning the outings. I guess we can ask the patrol leaders Council to think about why they don't get higher participation, but I also suspect that they believe the participation is fairly good as it is.

I understand what you're saying. Unfortunately, society being what it is today, sports and school extracurriculars can require attendance in order to participate. So To tell a boy that he must choose between an outing or an evening concert that is required for his grade is not a decision we are going to ask him to make. The consensus seems to be that ad hoc patrols are not a good idea because of the lack of continuity, and I understand. However, the patrol of one seems equally a bad idea and certainly doesn't promote any intra-patrol development and interaction either.

However, scouting cannot be everything to a boy. Boys want to, and my son wants to, be involved in other things as well. I want my son to do those things, and I understand that other boys want to. It is unrealistic to expect 100% participation in scouts year-round for seven years of middle school and high school.