Krampus

Totally agree on the validation of workplans and dates. While there is no official sign off (and there should be), I usually "heavily suggest" that our Eagle candidates have their draft plan done at the same time I review their proposal. This make sure that they are on the right track. I disagree about the project not being a troop function. I suspect you meant that you mentally consider them not a troop function even though the workbooks specifically calls out that they are: "All Eagle Scout service projects constitute official Scouting activity and thus are subject to Boy Scouts of America policies and procedures. Projects are considered part of a unit's program and are treated as such with regard to policies, procedures, and requirements regarding Youth Protection, two-deep leadership, etc. The health and safety of those working on Eagle projects must be integrated into project execution. Since an Eagle Scout service project is a unit activity, unit leadership has the same responsibility to assure safety in conducting a project as with any other unit activity. The unit leader or unit committee should reject proposals for inherently unsafe projects. The candidate should plan for safe execution, but it must be understood that minors cannot and must not be held responsible for safety concerns. As with any Scouting activity, the Guide to Safe Scouting applies. The “Sweet 16 of BSA Safety†must also be consulted as a planning tool. It can be found at: www.scouting.org/scoutsource/healthandsafety/" I suspect your unit does treat them as such. I know many around me that do not. Most units that do usually have vigilant folks like you reading them chapter and verse, that's why I said I'd be surprised if you weren't telling your unit to abide by this.

No. But the majority of problems arise out of discussions around I&P issues. We would be better off without it. It's like using pocket knives outside of an axe yard, sure it is allowed but if you don't exercise EXTREME good judgement you will certainly have more problems than you would inside the axe yard.

...exactly why I&P needs to go bye-bye. We keep losing good people.

What???!!! It is a unit function. As such, all the same rules, regulations and policies that apply to a camp out MUST ALSO apply to an Eagle project. That means you must have a minimum of one trained leader, weather training, Sweet 16 applies, etc. Fred, for someone who wants to go by the book on the FSLA related to volunteerism of youth, I'd fully expect you to make sure your unit is following BSA policy on all unit activities...especially Eagle projects!

Yes, It's called "Paid to Pray".

That's just it, the committee has zero legitimate way to keep a boy from advancing UNLESS he is has been put on probation for a violation of BSA rules. It is all right here in the Guide to Advancement. All the SM need do is send this to the CC and ask him to cite where in the GTA that the committee has the right to hold back a Scout in good standing in the unit PROVIDED the SM has signed off that the Scout has completed all requirements for the rank. In fact, send me your CC's email and I am happy to sent him this quote from the GTA: "8.0.0.4 Wearing the Uniform—or Neat in Appearance It is preferred a Scout be in full field uniform for any board of review. He should wear as much of it as he owns, and it should be as correct as possible, with the badges worn properly. It may be the uniform as the members of his troop, team, crew, or ship wear it. If wearing all or part of the uniform is impractical for whatever reason, the candidate should be clean and neat in his appearance and dressed appropriately, according to his means, for the milestone marked by the occasion. Regardless of unit, district, or council expectations or 8.0.0.0 Section 8. 56 | GUIDE TO ADVANCEMENT rules, boards of review shall not reject candidates solely for reasons related to uniforming or attire, as long as they are dressed to the above description. Candidates shall not be required to purchase uniforming or clothing such as coats and ties to participate in a board of review." I totally get wanting to churn out Scouts that are well-prepared. We do the same thing, HOWEVER, we address his preparedness BEFORE the BOR...or even SMC. Once he's gone through the SMC you can bet he's prepared and met the requirements. This guy is wrong...period! The SM needs to step up and confront this guy.

I avoid I&P as much as possible. Personally I'd get rid of it...it has cost us several good members already.

To further confuse things they have a Uniform Inspection Sheet. I hear the next uniform update has cutoffs and flip flops.

Seen it. Don't recall the exact structure of it. Google might find it. https://www.google.com/search?q=webelos+crossover+candle+ceremony&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=de-us&client=safari Do it quick before BSA bars Cubs from holding candles.

My dad was cleaning out the basement and found his records (files) from 1977 (seriously, he keeps everything). He found the fee for Jamboree 1977 at More Rain State Park. It cost $200 (DC to PA). The NCAC website has the cost of the 2017 Jamboree as being $1250. That a cumulative inflation rate of over 290%. Totally agree on the cost of Jambo. We can outfit a crew to do the AT for the cost of one kid to go to Jambo.

They have 100% record at screwing up.

Yes, but the silly "key" notes it as required. Typically of BSA...can never make anything 100% accurate. Meh...

I am sure many saw the BSA post on social media about their uniform website getting awards? I clicked through and noticed that now the World Crest "ring" (the 1910-2010 centennial ring) is now considered required? Did they have leftover supply and just trying to get rid of it to make money? http://bsauniforms.org/boyscouts

Funny....I think I said that the FLSA didn't apply to volunteers. Your quote notes it doesn't but says it is in the "best interest" to adhere to it. Thanks for validating my point. Try enforcing the FLSA on any farm in the US. I thank God I live in a state where the police and judicial system have a broader interpretation of the FLSA so as not to apply something that is obviously meant for employers to private citizens or volunteers.

I know. To be honest, this whole discussion reminds me of an episode of South Park. Basically, it was how life would be like if we removed religion to argue about...eventually we (humans) would find some other thing to take sides on and argue about. Or said another way according to the Big Bang Theory...

We ask for fliers. Got them two days late, wrong address and misspellings all over. We don't trust them to do what we can do faster, cheaper and more accurately.

My question to the CC would be why is he addressing the boys AT ALL???!!! The SM manages the program side of the house. He's responsible for the program, leadership development and rank advancement (among other things). The Advancement Chairman is the one who should be managing the BORs, training the parents how to take part in a BOR, etc. The CC's and the TC's primary job, according to BSA's Troop Committee Guide is to "support the Scoutmaster in delivering quality troop programs, and handling troop administration." No where in the guide does it say that the CC is to meddle with the BSA program over the SM's objections. The CC's duties are: Organize the committee to see that all functions are delegated, coordinated, and completed. Maintain a close relationship with the chartered organization representative and the Scoutmaster. Interpret national and local policies to the troop. Prepare troop committee meeting agendas. Call, preside over, and promote attendance at monthly troop committee meetings and any special meetings that may be called. Ensure troop representation at monthly roundtables. Secure top-notch, trained individuals for camp leadership. Arrange for charter review and recharter annually. Plan the charter presentation. If I were SM I'd invite the CC to either replace me or let me do my job.

Pledge= No need to discuss politics or religion. Oath/Law= Nothing political about those. Cit in XXX= You can discuss BOTH sides of politics in an analytical fashion without bringing feelings in to it. Spirit= What is even remotely political about this? Talk about election process? Sure! Talk about how healthcare reform has been a disaster and ended up costing people MORE? Likely will start arguments.

I've actually had this conversation with our non-Christian (Hindu, Buddhist) Scouts during the SMCs to see how they feel and how they treat this issue. Nearly to a Scout they said they didn't care about saying the word "God" in the Oath or Pledge. They say the word because, as they put it, to them it is just a "word" like any other. To them the are pledging their honor which means the same thing to them.

If he keeps treating them like that I'm surprised you see them at the next meeting. I suspect there are not many other troop options in your area?

This! But I will add that your PLC, SPL and PLs should set the example of wearing the uniform properly and setting the expectation that wearing the uniform properly is part of being a good Scout.

Seriously? You are reading WAY too much in to this. It specifically says "occupations", not tasks. If they are doing a service project or working around my house that is not an occupation. Any decent attorney could get that thrown out on its face...assuming you could even get a indictment. I can find obscure laws that would throw you in jail for chewing gum on Thursday wearing a red hat. Doesn't mean anyone would enforce it. Exactly! Heck, there was a unit that washed the windows of the courthouse here. THE COURTHOUSE!!!! No one got arrested. Heck, they had a unit sponsored BBQ after the event.

I disagree. You can set a no tolerance policy for I&P type posts/topics and simply remove them. I wouldn't expect the mods to police the posts as they happen, but they could remove the posts or threads after the fact. I'd be okay with that. In our unit we don't talk politics or religion. It avoids many needless arguments.

Nope. Nothing here. Wonder where the money is coming from.