Venividi

One of the things that I had to help a few of my scouts understand(including my son), was that if they allowed others to take advantage of them, they would continue to get treated that way (i.e. as a doormat). What you've described meets that description. You've done stuff to "knock their socks off", and they want more from you, and have let you know up front that no matter how much more you do, they are going elsewhere. Beavah gives appropriate advice. I agree with you to visit with the parents - let them know that you are glad to see the scouts continuing in scouting, whereever t

I still believe a particular scouts motivation and speed of advancement is not mine to judge or slow down...I am in scouting to help, not to hinder and certainly not to judge... I would supplement this with "help" meaning to help the scout achieve, and not helping to define requirements to be low enough to pass without effort. My experience with scouts parents that were pushy was that they were more likely to be demanding that the SM consider their son's efforts and scout spirit to be "good enough", than they were to demand that their son meet troop expectations. I suspect this is be

Firecrafter, Just like scouts come to a troop without skills such as knowing how to run a meeting, so do adults. The SM teaches and advises the SPL on how to run a troop meeting, complete with an agenda, and a time limit for each agenda item. If your troop committee meetings are running 3 hours with committee members discussing details on topics that they shouldn't be involved in, one approach is to meet with the Committee Chair between meetings to discuss the problem, and discuss an agenda complete with time limits for each agenda item, and remind the CC that he does have the authori

1. High adventures: Seeing the faces of scouts on a whitewater canoeing trip after shooting some rapids. The year before had been what I call a "beach vacation" type high adventure. While the scouts loved it, I did not see the same enthusiasm as was generated by canoing through mild rapids in Northern Wisconsin. 2. Watching my son make mistakes as crew chief at Philmont, and learn from them. At closing ceremony, hearing him get louder cheers from his crew than any other crew chief. 3. Self reflection that I am a better at my day job as a result of my time spent as a ScoutMaste

Longhaul, You make many excellent points. Personally, I suspect that the concept of no retest in any form was brought in to being as a result of some units interpreting the "make sure all requirements have been met" purpose as meaning an examination was required. The 1981 edition of the SM Handbook indicated that spot checking was appropriate (quote below). It appears that the definition of what a "re-test" is has changed over time, it is logical to assume that it was done to address rogue units going overboard. There should not be a need to swing completely the other way, an

Makeitfun, I also want to add "Thanks for joining." I always helpful to see things through the eyes of a new member of the forum. Evaluating a new perspective always helps me understand my own perspective. Venividi

Makeitfun, I have to say that I missed your point then also. The bowline knot is probably not a good example here - it is the rescue knot, and ought to be known before many high adventure type activities. Like first aid, the likelyhood of needing to use it is very small, but if it is needed, that is not the time to be pulling out the book to figure out how to tie it, nor the time to use some other knot that does not have the properties of a bowline. I think the whole conversation about knots gets away from the salient point of understanding and aquiring knowledge. Knots may not b

SM approves the request, he/she signs the blue card and gives the scout the name of a qualified MB counselor. There's nothing I'm aware of that states the scout has to use that counselor. I think and hope we shouldn't/wouldn't be looking for rules for every possible situation. We are wanting to instill character in boys, and want them to use the scout oath and law to guide to make decisions rather than simply following rules. We should do the same. If the SM gives a MBC name to a scout, and the scout comes back with the signature of a different counselor, I don't think there is a nee

And me - though I wasn't a boy scout, and I didn't pick up an enjoymnet of cooking until I was an ASM. My son's troop had a great SM (whose shoes I later stepped in to). His enthusiasm for cooking in a dutch oven was contagous. The troop had scouts that prepared dinners such as roasted cornish game hen with baked potatos and corn on the cob. Have since bought a dutch oven of my own, and bunch of us still get together regularly to play with them.

Dan, Feedback of info from the BOR IS one of the responsibilities of the advancement committee. That is one way to help programs get better, and/or to maintain high quality. Sure, things would be nice and rosy in an ideal world where a CO was able to find and hire a SM and ASM's, and the committee was able to sit back and assume that the program was well taken care of. Perhaps the CO should have hired a "good" SM. But, just perhaps, they hired an inexperienced SM, that was not yet comfortable sitting across the table from a scout, looking him in the eye, and telling him that

The purpose of the Board of Review is not to retest you but rather to ensure that you have completed all of the requirements, to determine the quality of your troop experience, and to encourage you to advance toward the next rank. I do not see how a BOR can ensure a scout has completed all of the requirements if it is not allowed to ask such as described by Mike F. I suppose they could take the view that if the requirement was signed off, that must mean it was completed. But who gets shortchanged in such instances is the scout. Oh sure, he gets the rank award, but it is hollow - and t

I can't help but note the tenor of posts is highly affected by the words selected. If a scout doesn't attend for a year and the troop does not re-register him, is he really being kicked out or booted out? I think not.

Sunsetandshadow, Welcome to the forum. Am glad to hear you post your views. I do hope that you are not truely shocked that there is a wide variety of viewpoints held (and shared) by the forum members here. I like to understand other peoples viewpoints, even when they disagree with my own, because it does foster self-evaluation of ones own opinion. Sometimes posts result in modification my own viewpoints; often they do not. They do always help me to understand that others do not see things as I do, and that I must accept that. You know that the world was created in a literal 7X24

Oh the conundrums and conflicts ... thats why our salaries are so high (big grin). There is not getting around that scout spirit is subjective. I am sure there are cases where low participation is due to the need to work for family financial reasons, a struggling student completing homework, or volunteering with the red cross or other humanitarian organization. There are other cases where low participation is due to a lad who has chosen other extra curricular activities over scouting, and never was active (real active, not "rostered" active) for a 6 month period. We get to sort that ou

I used to have some interesting discussions about an unchanging moral standard with a pastor friend. He posited that christians had one, but he could not state what it was, though it existed but was obscured by man's imperfect interpretation. I would ask what the difference was between not having an unchanging moral standard, vs. having an unchanging moral standard which no one knew, nor could be stated, or couldn't be agreed upon by those saying it existed.

ASM59, Do what is right for the troop and the scout, wthout concern for what National considers active. If you don't see 6 months of actively participating with the troop, don't sign off on the requirement. If the family escallates, and National gives credit for non-activity, that is fine. But let them do it, rather than supporting what you may consider a low level of scout spirit. Stand up for the values that you and your other adult leaders believe in. You know the scout(s) involved. National doesn't. Our troop had a tradition of keeping non-active scouts on the role. In ret

Firecrafter, You have received a lot of good advice from others on why they discourage or limit relatives from signing off on a scout. Most of the time, adults hold their relatives to appropriate standards. Sometimes, you encounter those that know how to game the system,and do so. Your troop adults do not need to continue to enable the situation. And the situation is being enabled, because the troop continues to permit it by continuing to approve starting on new MB's that you permit the scout to complete with counsellors in which you have no confidence. Fscouter recommends repo

Thought I had replied, but don't see the reply posted an hour later, so I must have mucked things up. Will try again. Lisabob, I recommend trying to keep the implementation of the MB program consistent with the aims you are trying to achieve; principally character and citizenship. If you find you are running counter to the aims in certain situations, then evaluate and modify as needed. you ask: What I'm wondering is whether the SM can tell a boy he can't work on a particular mb at any given time? My view: yes, if you aren't seeing evidence that a scout is not exibiting what you

firecracker, I suggest you discuss the issue among the committee and SM/ASM's. The SM does not have to be approving the scout for 3-4 MB's per month. Or even 1 per month, if he does not think it is in the scout's best interest to be working on them. It amy be appropriate for the SM to tell the scout that he would like to see the scout "do more of xxx", where "xxx" is something that the scout is ignoring - particpating with his patrol, fulfilling his obligations in a leadership position, etc. - if the scout is not performing them consistent with expectations of scout spirit. The SM

I agree with the SM on not signing the MBC line on replacement blue cards. I agree with you on having the scouts contact appropriate MB counsellors to have the cards replaced. The counsellor may choose to give credit for work completed, plus ask the scout to demonstrate the skills and explain topics he was to learn. How each MBC handles the situation would likely be dependent on the requirements for the badge - the scouts can show the MBC baskets, woodcarvings, leatherwork projects, etc. from craft type projects; show notes taken during field observation for mammal study; demonstration

I see that somehow in my last reply a different topic previously discussed on this forum appeared in the subject line. Don't know how it happened, and appologize for the mistake.

Lisabob, I agree with the comment about new Webelos coming in changing how the first year scouts see themselves. The Web's will be looking at them "experienced". Look for opportunities for your son's patrol members to teach skills to the new crossovers.

After one year, troop guides should no longer be necessary. I do agree with OGE that it is worth taking the time to get folks together and review why no one in the patrol is motivated to be a leader. Are they excited about participating in the cooking and patrol competitions? I would encourage you to read some of the stuff available on the web by Barry Runnells - he does a good job of describing natural growth in scouts, and that it isn't until 14 or so that a scout really is prepared to be a good leader. (You can find similar material in official BSA publications as well; Barry just d

Eagle309 You state: While I would do nothing to put impediments in his way I wonder if he is moving a bit too fast and should be encouraged to stop and smell the roses along the way. Any advise on what I should do as a SM/parent? Should I just let him go or should I try to get him involved in aspects other than advancement and if so what and how? My advice: Watch how he approaches advancement, and then give him guidance so that you are instilling the aims of character & citizenship in him. As SM, I had several very young scouts motivated by receiving advancement awards. Very

Hi Laure, Consider sending them both. Check with your council as to whether there is a limit as to the number of attendees from a unit. (Our council's rule of thumb is 3). Am puzzled about why the scout you send to JLT would be the scout that serves as the SPL at summer camp - I would expect that the SPL at summer camp would be the SPL that the scouts elected for the term that includes summer camp. It is not clear to me what is to be gained by having a adult appointed SPL (which effectively the case if the boy approved to send to JLT automatically gets the position). Re: ensu