Venividi

Fuzzy Bear, I like your logic. But I see a parallel to the "under god" words in the pledge of allegience. Even though at one time it wasn't there, many people would have a strong sense of "losing something" if it was removed.

A good vent, like a primal scream, can help blow off steam. Then one can go back into his/her own tempest in a teapot, and be the tactful, friendly, courteous person he/she is. uz2bnowl - now that you let yours out, get back in there and help some boys grow to be men!

No, perhaps not ready for JASM, which is why I said "JASM like" role. Something that speaks loudly that he is not being considered the same as the typical new scout, but rather as a maturing young man. Perhaps an informal position, but one where he is treated like an adult, and not like a boy. I recall 30 some years ago joining FFA (Future Farmers of America) my sophomore year of high school. Everyone else my age had joined the year before as freshmen. FFA had "ranks" starting with "greenhorn". Even though I was only one year older than the other new freshman "greenhorns", I had to

I see a lot of comments about advancement issues with joining at 16 1/2. I will offer that to a 16 1/2 year old, advancement would not be one of the methods that will be useful with a 16 1/2 year old. I would downplay that method. Rather, I would look instead towards a strong use of the patrol method (look for a troop with other scouts his age), the outdoors method (try to build interest in outdoors with age appropriate activities on outings, teach outdoor skills without regard to the TF-2nd-1st class requirements), and the adult association method (an adult or two that takes personal inte

Lisabob, Lots of input here, with good reasons and rational both for and against sitting on the BOR. Some have proposed that the SM is closer to the situation and to the scouts than you, and therefore has information with respect to scout spirit that you do not. That is very well true. I will toss out that it is also possible that the SM is not comfortable saying "I'm sorry, you are not yet ready to advance. Here are the things you need to work on to fulfill the scout spirit requirement". I know that the first couple of conferences that I had with scouts that I had doubts a

It happens in professionally run programs as well. My neighbor, a teacher, tells me he had to stay late one night at the bginning of this school year in order to demonstrate to one pair of parents that there was a problem with the school's computer system that prevented him from posting homework assignments on the class web site. Parents had called the principal. They didn't believe the reason, so principal invited them in and asked the teacher to stay late to demonstrate the problem. After demonstrating to the parents, they said they just wanted to verify that there really was a problem.

I want to add to my previous post: be appreciative that the mom took her issue to the committee chair. She did that correctly. Too often parents will circumvent the committee and go straight to the SM with their complaints.

baden, Taking a look from a different perspective, I think that what SHOULD have happened was for the committee chair to have explained to the complaining Mom that a)he heard her, b)it was appropriate for for the PLC to include a couple of hours to listen to the big game in their weekend campout, and c) the SM has the committee's support in having approved it. The CC should be the SM's best friend in running interference for the SM in situations such as these. (Unless I am misreading your post, which sounds like the CC brought the problem to the SM, rather than as a "for your informatio

fgoodwin, gotta agree with your last post that it is good troop policy. Otherwise scouts don't want to repeat the training again. Been there, done that. And will have excuses why they are busy that weekend. Perhaps an approach where anyone that has already taken it twice is asked to lead one of the sections. Or prepare and present a lesson on one of the leadership skills, and these presentations be used to supplement and expand the TLT. SM could even ask for presentations on areas where jr leadership is weak. Now you get into the "can't add to the requirements" arguement. Se

Good question, and one I thought about how to address/manage when I was a SM. So many factors to consider - gotta have different expectations for a scout with specific limitations than one without. Not all scouts will excel in fitness any more than all scouts will excel in character or in citizenship. No one joined to have their fitness improved anymore than anyone joined to have their character improved. A troops program can be put together to include a variety of physical activities, just like it can include opportunities for growth in character and citizenship. Fun things that req

Your CM story resonates with me. Back when I was a (new) CM, had a successful roundup with 10 or so tiger applications received. My eyes lit up when I reviewed the applications, and saw that half of the dads listed that they were either Eagle or Life scouts. Thought I was in luck in having so many parents that had so much scout experience, and expected to see an overwhelming show of scout spirit in leading the tiger program that year. Every one of them turned down the opportunity. Even after multiple requests. I couldn't help but be dissappointed.

evmori, I have no problem with your and OGE's position. I am sure it works well for you. I just don't think it is the only legitimate interpretation of the two seemingly conflicting facts about uniforms that OGE presented. For what its worth, I would have issue with a BOR that sumarily dismissed a scout in the referenced situation without commencing the review and asking questions about why. The responses to these questions can be one factor (of many) to be considered. As SM, I would talk to the BOR members to find out why they made the decision they did, and attempt to get everyo

Ron, Yes, sounds like you have your work cut out for you - but hopefully it will be able to be handled with a conversation or three. Need to understand why the BOR dismissed him to come back with a complete uniform. There may be a good reason, or maybe not. Need to understand why the scout came to the BOR without the full uniform if he knew that was the expectation. There may be a good reason, or maybe not. And with the small size of the troop, you don't have the luxury of pulling someone else in from the bench, so to speak. You have to work with what you have. If your commit

Put the two facts that OGE puts together, and the BOR gets to use their wisdom in determining a course of action. If a scout comes in without a uniform, the BOR members can ask questions to ascertain why. If they find that the scout is from a poor family that cannot afford a uniform, and that scout has a paper route, but those funds go towards lunch, they may compliment the scout for what he has done, and then take back to the troop committe that there is a needy scout, and the troop committee may choose to help the scout obtain a uniform. If they find that the scout had the resources an

Packsaddle, I see unit to unit variability as a strength rather than a weakness. Same with grade schools, high schools, and colleges. Variability is helpful because it supports allowances for local conditions and situations - the kids, the adults, the interests, the capabilities, the hurdles, the desire. Sure, that means that an Eagle from troop xxx is different than an Eagle from troop yyy, just like a degree from University of Illinois is different (dare I say better?) than one from any other university. Each is shaped by different experiences, and each has the potential to build

If he has been active, using the scoutmaster minute to talk about the great example he has set for those that come after him would be appropriate, and then have some refreshments.

Fuzzy Bear, I like your Q & A's. It brings back into focus that our aims are to develop character & citizenship in our scouts, and that means expecting our charges to live up to the scout oath and law, and reward them when they do so. Advancement can be a powerful motivator, and works best when positioned as a reward for growth in character and citizenship (i.e., scout spirit), rather than as a check mark on getting the right number of merit badges (by whatever means). Have high expectations - scouts will strive to meet them. Have low expectations - they will meet those als

Around here Ready, Fire, Aim is promoted. A job can be done "too good", and result in being "bad" because it resulted in higher cost and longer schedule than the customer wanted.

ASM59, The problem with the BOR giving a "social promotion" and ignoring the lack of requirements sign-off is an indication to me that BOR has raised advancement to an Aim, or that they do not want to be seen as the "bad guy" by telling the scout that he is not ready for the BOR or the next rank. If/when what you described happens, a potential approach would be: SM have conference with the scout for a heart to heart talk on why the scout went to a BOR without signoff by SM on SM-conference, Scout Spirit, etc., with an emphasis on the disappointment, and giving him an opportunity t

FireKat, Try a "go out for coffee", or "stop at Baker's Square for a piece of pie after round table", and give the gung ho parent some personal time for a discussion to explain the boy scout aims and methods, how adult scouters fit into that, and specific roles and/or tasks that this parent can do to assist in a way consistent with the aims and methods. Occasionally you also need a gathering of all parents to review the same with everyone, and for the SM to explain his/her vision for the troop and the CC to explain the committee role in supporting the troop.

F_scouter gives excellent advice. In many cases, you have to do what works. Though personally, I would not choose (as SM) to delegate sign-off of requirements to committee members. Think of it as the flip side of SM/ASM not being able to participate in BOR's. Its supposed to be a checks and balances kind of thing. If the scouts can't tell the difference between committee members and the ASM's, then the roles need better definition. I have had committee members attend campouts. They were told that they were on a vacation, and while they participated in activities, they did not step

pargo, It sounds like the Jr leaders are not thinking of themselves as leaders. You don't say how long the meeting was, or how old the scouts are. You could recommend that the SPL throw in a break like a MadLib every 45 minutes or so. A short conference with each scout individually may be called for, and how you were dissapointed in his lack of participation in the PLC, and ask each if he really thinks that he is fulfilling the duties of his position. Or perhaps they may be having trouble getting back in the swing of things, and may be better at the next PLC. For a scout th

gwd-scouter- Congrats on explaining the quartermaster job in a way that makes coming over to the scoutmaster's house one of the benefits of the job. And on involving an older scout to help him learn the job (I am assuming he will be a JASM.) There is a certain point of pride in having a house messy with scouting stuff. It is consistent with the "what matters" verse we all love, and is certainly a sign of commitment that we live "what matters". Though when it comes to having TROOP equipment laying around the house, it is at odds with "never do a job a boy can do". Be proud of what

"Everyone thinks everyone else is out to get each other along with gossip and hard feelings. It is almost impossible to get cooperation out of anyone." And this is the adults. What a poor example they are setting for the scouts. One of the things that I have noticed is that boys coming into a troop want to be the leader. Gradually, more of them want to avoid the leadership positions, because they want to avoid the responsibility of leadership. I have seen patrols that would not elect a patrol leader, because the patrol members wanted to sit back and hang out, and let someone else do t

gwd-scouter, I see opportunity! I see a call to your SPL in your immediate future, to ask him to set the wheels in motion for the ASPL to call the quartermaster to set a time when he and a couple of his buddies will be over to put away equipment from the last campout! It's nice to have such young visitors. Be sure to just happen to have some cookies and iced tea to share when they are done.