Twocubdad

Source: my course director, during the staff beading ceremony. It came with the disclaimer, "of course, we don't really enforce that around here." I believe I recall reading that in the WB syllabus. Knowing our CD then, if it weren't in the syllabus, it never crossed his mind, much less lips. I'd look it up, but due to expense, we returned the books at the end of the course.

Technically, you only wear the extra beads during the course. Once it is over you're supposed to go back to the two beads. Obviously for many the extra beads are a source of pride. I was on staff four years ago, so I can look at the experience with some detachment now. I have to say that Wood Badge staff (I have not been nor will I ever be a Course Director) is less time, work, involvment and dedication that serving as Cub Scout Day Camp Director for a week, which I did for five years. All I got for that was a t-shirt.

Six months later they would have been required to join the army.

emb nailed it by noting the problem of Venturing overlap with Boy Scouts. The boys have split loyalties between the troop and crew. And it really takes a special kind of girl to want to break into Venturing. That's not meant to be sexist. You don't see many boys with no BSA experience joining crews either. Too many crews are formed as a subsidiary of a Boy Scout troop. Honestly, many of them are formed to accommodate district unit recruitment goals, not any real passion for the program (but that's another thread). The one truely successful Venturing crew in our area was advised by a college professor who ran it totally indendently of the Boy Scout program. That he was able to recruit college-aged boys and girls was a big plus, too. And that's the other issue. The typical "career track" of youth in the US is to graduate high school and go away to college. This makes the effective age limit of crew members 18. Again, the above crew was successful because they were able to recruit from the local university (and may have met on campus, I'm not sure). I had a long conversation with a SM and his 20 y.o. son from the UK about this. They were very clear that one of the big reasons Rover Scouts (more or less the age-equivalent program in the UK) is as successful as it is there is because youth there don't tend to go great distances away from home to attend college. (Hey, the country is an island, they don't tend to do much of anything at great distances.) This fellow went to a university close enough to home that he still attended most Scout group functions. And that was true of most of the college-aged kids in their group. Unless BSA is going to make a commitment to organizing crews on college campuses so that Venturers can seamlessly move back and forth between their units at home and at school(and given the 3G issues that seems unlikely) I don't see this issue being overcome.

Our troop charges $100 annual dues and doesn't pay out much for individual activities. If there is a fee associated with an activity, everyone generally pays their own way. We have a separate one-time fee we charge everyone who joins the troop, so equipment generally doesn't come out of the $100. Even still, we use every bit of the $100. Office supplies like markers, pens, and copies; consumable camping supplies like fuel, lantern mantles, rope and trash bags; program materials like PL and SPL handbooks, we spend over $100 a year on position patches. We're all the time getting hit with little expenses for odds and ends like gas money when we went water skiing back in the summer. It adds up. My point is, not knowing any details as to how your troop spends its money, based on my experience they don't sound too far out of line to me. Please be very careful and respectful in how you approach your leaders. In all honesty, your original post seemed a bit accusatory ("...the adult leaders seem to be pulling random numbers out of no where....") You should go in with the attitude they they know what they're doing and have the best interests of the Scouts at the fore. Make sure you are asking for the right reasons.

I'm a big proponent of not over programming things. Half the fun is just running around in the woods with your buddies. We tried to plan a morning activity and an afternoon activity. Look at the belt loops for ideas. Do stuff you can't do at regular meetings, like orienteering, fishing, and astronomy. A good kick ball game with everyone participating is always fun. About dark, you HAVE TO have a campfire. Think of it as a pack meeting without the announcements and advancements. Every den does a skit or song. Flag retirement ceremonies are a cool way to end the campfire. The rule for planning campfires is that the program follows the fire. In the beginning, while the fire is blazing, have all the silly skits and songs. As the fire begins to die down, have the more quiet, reflective stuff before sending everyone off to bed. You don't want all the boys all wound up then try to get them to sleep. A big Dutch oven cobbler or even smores are fun.

We have custom neckers for our troop. We pay $7 or $8 bucks for them through Advantage Emblem. www.advantageemblem.com Ask for Jenni. She handles our account and does a great job for us. They're very reasonable and don't nickel and dime you on art charges and set up fees. Their art department can take just about anything and turn it into a great design. They have over-sized neckers for the older guys and adult. Seems like they're an extra buck or so. By the way, Cub Scouts don't have an option to wear custom neckers. They should stick with the Tiger/Wolf/Bear/Web neckers. You can do what you like, but you should be aware of the uniform policy.

/rant on THERE -- at or in a place THEIR -- the possessive form of they THEY'RE -- the contraction of THEY and ARE The Smith's live there but they're at their cabin this weekend. /rant off Back to the thread: Every night, as I go to sleep, I thank God we don't have Scout accounts.

Part of our troop culture is spiffing up for a board of review. Show up most Tuesday nights and it's easy to see who has a BOR scheduled -- they are the ones with the pressed uniforms, merit badge sashes and medals. Of course an Eagle BOR is no different. It's not uncommon for an Eagle candidate to come to me asking for replacement insignia they may have misplaced over the years because they want their uniform A+ for their board. Are uniforms inspected at boards of review? No. This is just the expectation the troop and the Scouts have set for themselves. It's never happened, but what would we do if a Eagle candidate showed up in blue jeans, a dirty shirt two sizes too small and still sporting his Star badge? He would likely be dismissed. NOT because of failing to meet any uniforming requirement, but for the lack of respect he showed the board members, the proceedings and himself.

Our Eagle boards are of the variety where they are run by the troop with troop volunteers and one representative from the District. That seems to be how most are run, but it sounds like there may be a few exceptions. We also do mock boards which tend to cover a little more Scoutcraft material and have a bit more of a retest flavor. As much as anything that's a hold-over from the old school board of reviews, but it also keeps the boys on their toes. Hey, it a mock board, so no harm no foul. I think our advancement chairman does a nice job of striking a good tone at the actual board of review. It ends up being a very thoughtful and heart-felt conversation between the Eagle candidate and a group of adults who have watched him grow up in the troop. It's a bit of a victory lap, and rightly so.

Lashings are a Boy Scout skill, but ask around to see if someone can build an old-fashioned lashed pole. Two or three 8' closet rods and a few pieces of rope will make a nice flag pole and break down easily. A pulley and halyard are nice a nice addition. If you just HAVE to have a store-bought flag pole, I know Lowe's sells a kit with a 20' pole that breaks down into five, 4' sections. It includes a flag. It is designed to be inserted into a sleeve buried in the ground. So unless you go back to the same spot everytime, you'll need to come up with some system for setting it up. Maybe a metal stake and zip ties.

My apologies. I decided a long time ago not to participate in the Issues & Politics forum. But I have my computer set to sort threads by posting time, not forum category, and mistakenly thought this was a program post. Please disregard my posting.

In the other thread about discipline, I wrote that our troop discipline policy was intentionally thin on details so as to leave the leadership maximum latitude to respond to situations. I rather think this policy is the same. Especially with youth, it's important that the leaders on the ground have a lot of room to work with boys who may be unsure of their place in the world. If a 13-year-old announces that he is gay, do you want a policy that requires the local leaders to immediately boot the kid, or do you want the ability to talk with the boy and his parents and perhaps suggest he talk with other counselors or ministers? Of course, if your unit/CO wants to immediately remove a Scout who claims to be gay, they can. Or not.

In our situation with the boy we eventually expelled, we probably let it too long. The kid was a bad influence on a number of other kids and was absorbing a disproportionate amount of our time. Sad thing was, when this kid was away from his posse, he was a pretty good kid. After a year and a half, we pulled the plug. His main problem was he was a firebug. His first campout he was lighting matches in his tent and setting paper on fire. He was suspended for three months for trying to light a propane cylinder on fire. When he came back, he continually did things to irritate the adults and show off for his buddies. Nothing big, just not doing what he was supposed to do, being disruptive, not being where he was supposed to, constantly pushing the rules and causing conflict. We finally got to the point where the stress and aggrivation of dealing with this kid wasn't worth it. Since he was already on probation from the propane thing, he was removed from the troop. Once we got rid of the kid, the behavior of the others improved immediately. I don't know if the kid we suspended was really the instigator of all the problems, or if giving him the boot put the fear of God into the rest. Either way, it sure solved a lot of problems.

But Lisa, that's still a lack of commitment. If everything was rosy and just as promised, keeping commitments wouldn't be an issue. Yes, things change, the grass isn't as green as you thought and the Sea Monkeys don't look like the ones on the back of the comic book. That's not a reason to bail. The last year my older son played baseball, he came home from practice and announced that he didn't like baseball anymore and was going to quit the team. "No, you're not. You made a commitment to the team. You're taking a spot someone else could have had and with only 11 players, if you quit, the team is only two players from forfeiting games. YOU'RE COMMITTED TO PLAY BASEBALL THROUGH THE END OF THE SEASON." He finished the season and never signed up again. And that was fine. He honored the commitment he made then moved on. That's the situation we're dealing with on our Philmont crew. When you sign up you are committed to the crew. Other people are making plans based on your commitment. I don't care if the crew advisor turns out to be meddlesome or if the kid elected crew leader is bossy. If you drop out the crew is in danger of falling below the minimums then lots of people are going to loose thousands of dollars they paid based on the commitment you made. As is usually the case, the parents are more to blame than the kids.

I don't know that this is the "ugly side" just part of the job description. Our behavioral policy is intentially very sparse, a little more than two pages. It starts with the Oath and Law. Then we have minimal behavorial expectations for all Scouts and a list of higher expectations for Scouts in leadership positions and those wishing to advance. The expectations cover more than just a list of Thou Shall Nots, but include stuff like expectations for attendance, uniforms and leading by example. There is also a list of expectations for the adults which includes stuff like supporting their Scout and the troop. Consequences are intentionally left very vague so that the Scoutmaster and Committee have maximum flexibility to deal with situations. A nearby troop has a policy which gives weight to the various offenses times the number of prior offenses, blah, blah, blah. I don't have time to keep up with that mess. We use our best judgement to come up with an appropriate response to the situation. Youth leaders are encouraged to deal with discipline situations to the extent of their ability while keeping the adult leaders apprised of the situation. The SM is authorized to remove boys from any activity or meeting if he deems it necessary for up to a month. Longer suspensions or expulsions are up to the committee. Yes, in five years we have suspended two boys and eventually removed one of them from the troop. Both boys had engaged in dangerous (and stupid) activities which put themselves and other at serious risk.

Define your terms. You guys are arguing two different things. Attention span is the length of time one can focus on one specific thing. We are training a whole generation to have a very short attention span. Look at the pacing of movies now vs. some of the oldies. Current movies, expecially action movies, the scene cuts every second or two. At a movie night a couple years ago, the one movie the adults were allowed to pick was Cool Hand Luke. We thought it was a fun guy flick none of the kids had seen. Most walked out. The scene where Luke's mother comes to the prison in the back of the truck (which explains why Luke does what he does) was too long for them. They never got to the egg eating scene, Lucille, or the card game. They weren't willing to invest a few minutes listening to a little dialog in order to get to the fun stuff. Long term commitment is different. You can have the attention span of a gnat and still make a commitment to something.

As with every position in Scouting, the term is one year. Unless there is a local policy, the position is renewable indefinitely.

That's a dadgum good point. The football coach or band director says practice is mandatory and if you don't practice you don't play. But with Scouts it's "aw shucks, ya'll just show up when you can." Afterall, it's a self-paced program and we're darn glad to have you for what ever little time you decide to give us. Does that really do our Scouts a favor?

I agree with the majority that it's appropriate for the troop to test the Scout before signing his book. Never had an Advancement Campout but occassionally we will have an advancement day, usually a Sunday afternoon during which several ASM are available for any Scouts who are ready to be tested on any requirements. Seems like there's never enough time on Tuesday nights or even many campouts.

Our rule is that once the grubmaster buys the groceries, you're on your hook regardless of the reason. If you drop dead, we're going to charge your estate. The GM has put out the money and you need to pay your share. No one ever really cares about the money. We've had boys crossover into the troop, pay dues and never show up for a single meeting (I've always said that means our dues are to low). We had several boys walk away from hundreds of dollars for our last trip to Philmont. The money doesn't seem to mean much, but apparently neither does the time and effort the leaders -- both youth and adult -- put into the event. I've got a second year kid in the troop who's an incredible mama's boy. I can't remember the last time he went on a campout, although his older brother is fairly active. Last night we were going through the sign-up sheet for next month's backpacking trip and -- I'm SHOCKED -- he's not going. I made a point of asking him why not and he said "he has something to do." We'll heck, I have somenting to do, including going on the campout.

You misunderstood my post, BP. I understand those admin functions are handled at region now. My point is that I don't care where the person is located when I send in my registration or they send me my camp school materials.

I'm not suggesting you turn this into a quid pro quo, but if someone does something nice for me (or the troop) I try to return the favor. A Scout is Courteous. Don't think of it as "payment" think of it as making the event fun and appealing for the Scouts. If the four or five guys it takes to staff the booth are going above and beyond to help out the troop, why shouldn't the troop do something nice for them? Especially if it is something visible to the rest of the troop, like being invited to the adult campsite for cobbler on the next campout? In another vein, I wouldn't use the Eagle project requirements to exclude service which benefits Scouting in general. I think Boy Scouts helping at Cub day camp or a Cub camporee is a fine service project (unless the Boy Scout is a Den Chief is obligated as part of his posiion of responsibility.) Again, my criteria is where or not the Scout is benefitting from the service himself. I do agree with the idea that the Star and Life service should give the Scout a flavor of an Eagle project (although I think six hours is far too little time.) To that end, for Life I require the Scout to give me a quick, one paragraph proposal as to what he is going to do. I also ask that they plan for the one project to take all six hours. If he comes up short and puts in another hour or two somewhere else, that's okay, but going in I want him to do the one project. It makes me nuts for a kid to try to justify an hour-and-a half here, two hours there, 45 minutes somewhere else -- that's not a service project, that's a creative writing assignment.

If you mean does it count toward Star or Life communtiy service requirements? No. This is a service to the troop, not the community. Even if it's in a small way, the benefit eventually accrues to the Scouts, especially the fundraising. On the other hand if the troop just tracks community service hours, such as for Good Turn For America, what the heck. May I assume a fairly small number of the troop's Scouts will be required to staff the booth? If so, it seems to me there needs to be some benefit to the Scouts who help out vs. those who do not. May dinner on the troop, after the event?

I don't really know who works out of the regional offices. Seems like a bunch of admin folks. The Area Directors, who I think do the heavy lifting of supervising councils, already tend to work out of their home or have an office in one of the councils they serve. If camp school materials and registration, jambo registration and the like come out of Irving, I dont' think it will make much difference.