blw2

A few years ago, I came to the conclusion that a perpetual Tiger Leader would be the single greatest gift a pack could have. Good on you for doing it so long! I hope your pack appreciate the time you have given it!

I think this goes back to something I posted a while back.... The need for "One Program" When i mentioned that before a few folks got there back up a little.... well what work in one geography doesn't work in another.... stuff like that... I don't mean it down to that granular of a level.... I don't mean to say that all troops in the nation should be taking a canoe trip the 3rd week of September.... What I mean is a more simple outline and guidline of the program... one that does not take hours to read and several training courses to certify.... one that would encourage consistency from unit to unit a simple program one that is easy to understand one that is not really open to interpretation and adult sillyness. as an example I'll point out patrol method boy led.... how many interpretations of that do we here have on that oe really simple idea? How many variations do we see in it from unit to unit? I'll bet if you took say 4 of the most seasoned scoutmasters here on the forum and let them brainstorm for less than an hour, they could come up with a half page bullet list that would clearly define a boy led troop that uses the patrol method as BP designed it.... I wouldn't even be surprised if GBB or someone hasn't already done it.... documented clearly and concisely. Now put that into a training session that takes no more than maybe 3-5 minutes tops to view, and we're all on the same page All presenting a much better program for the boys that's consistent from one troop to the next.... don't add to it, don't take away. Then the only variable between troops is the boys, and what they choose to do! It's the same on the cub level. I don't know... I'm likely over simplifying and undercutting the time it would take..... but that's my idea.

This is an interesting parallel @@Stosh In that other thread, it was criticized when we look outside to Britain and scouting programs from other nations.... Personally, I don't think that's nearly as off kilter as comparing our society today with that of the pre 1970's "golden age" as you put it. We were a very different culture then, likely more different that we are compared with many other nations now! Regardless.... to your question, what would happen. Nothing. And that's probably what will happen in the foreseeable future anyway..... we'll keep on like we are now....

We did the Kennedy Space Center one two years ago. Likely similar although KSC is not NASA so it could very well likely be different too.... It was good, and many of our boys rank it as one of the best events we have done.... many want to go back.... in fact my son said it was his #1 pick of things he was hoping to do again

a lot of comments about doing the coed thing to increase numbers..... as for me anyway, when i say I'm for it it has absolutely nothing to do with raising enrolment numbers.

.... and based on my experience most folks have no problem saying no. Our pack has always done with just one leader In my 4+ years with the pack, we've only had two Assistant Den Leaders but that was only for one year for each person. I was an Assist DL only because I wanted to volunteer to get more involved and help the DL.... then last year we had and ADL in Tigers since as CM I tried to encourage the pack to produce one for each den.... (i really made an effort to support the DL) And now I'm ADL again, since my son's new DL is getting burned out and asked me to help him again.... since I now have the time, not doing the CM thing anymore. And we've had big dens like that None of the other dens have had ADL's.... ever. My point is, while i agree not ideal, the den can function with 1 leader. I assume we're talking Tiger den Strongly Encourage that Den Leader to work under the shared leadership model I have no idea how this would fit in with the new program, but I'm sure you can make it work..... We never practiced this.... although i really encouraged the Tigers to do this last year.... The old program was set up for this.... each den meeting (or each couple meetings, or maybe each month's worth of meetings) is run by a different parent/boy team. The DL still has to get involved in setting or approving which adventure you do, etc... and the register Den Leader must attend and monitor every meeting, but the work is done by them. Then in the process of going through this first year, the DL can really be watching for the likely candidates and starting to hint or "groom" them towards the idea of formally recruiting them as Assistant Den Leader in the spring, in preparation for the Wolf year.

this is a side track to the original point of the thread, and playing devil's advocate here.... but maybe cubs is the problem. My 7 year old 2nd grade daughter is a first year Brownie this year.... they have on the books a trip or two that have been specified as not family friendly. I'm not exactly sure of how they put it... but my wife says they don't want parents along. The cub scout leader in me says that screams ypt red flag... I don't like it..... But maybe..... just maybe.... cubs shouldn't be so family friendly.....

what I have seen is the occasional sister joining in on a meeting or especially the camping trips and other outings. How often?.... more than I can count for you.... as an active scouter, with two daughters younger than my WEBELOS scout, my girls.. espacailly my middle daughter, have done quite a bit. In the pack, there have been a fair number of other sisters along here and there..... Not coming to every meeting consistently, but they're along at meetings, outings, activities, etc....

I don't get it either......

So which are you @@dfolson? I was talking with an old diving buddy the other day. he was always a PADI guy He was saying that he noticed there seems to be fewer NAUI shops around his area in South West Florida Back when i was diving a lot, I always felt a bit like a stepchild with SSI.... even though they were quite big even back then, it seemed a lot of folks had never heard of them. Shops and charters were ok of course, but casual divers had not... Mostly PADI and NAUI folks. There's a couple SSI shops in town. One big shop here is PADI My local Diver's supply store is now teaching SDI, which I don't think I ever heard of before... at least I don't remember it... Diver's Supply used to be PADI, so my buddy & I theorized that they moved away from PADI driven by cost.... Regardless, I personally don't think it matters all that much... all different twists on the same idea. I think my best training was the stuff through IANTD. Interesting (but not surprising) that the BSA doesn't include them. My 1st Nitrox class was through IANTD before any of the mainstream agencies even recognized Nitrox. It was I think 4 nights of classroom spread over two weeks, followed by a couple of open water checkout dives.... Now it seems that you can be Nitrox certified if you know how to purge your regulator! (not that's it bad really, I learned a lot more in depth stuff, but really it's not all that useful to a recreational diver). The Tech diving classes through IANTD really shined though. Much more hard core.... ditching your gear at depth including mask, and swimming distances to retrieve it and re-don... stuff like that really increases confidence.... and the bookwork on physiology was very "deep" too.

yeah, maybe so.... but at 11 did you want to give mouth-to-mouth to a GIRL? older boys, yeah well ok well maybe so and I don't think most young boys can relate to the tug on the heart strings of saving your child that this add does so well... that was my line of thinking anyway about it be targeted to adults

That was my angle in thinking exactly. The girl patrols would go their way, the boys the other..... every now and then they might meet and mingle in an activity that appeals to both, giving that nerdy boy a chance at talking with that nerdy girl, as you put it.... .....which I suppose opens up another line of discussion, and that is the dating potential or exposure for the older kids.... maybe still a win, as a way for kids to meet other like minded kids (or not a win when they break-up) I guess I never really considered all this competition stuff that you and others bring up.... but then I still don't see that as the end all of the issue either. All this talk about girls being more advanced..... ok true enough, but that's only one small piece of it I think....For me it's not all about competition. Girls and boys might compete in some areas, but perhaps not in others. I guess I look at it as a potential win for the boys, win for the girls, and win for parents, and a win for scouting..... but while you've give good reason to pause @@Cambridgeskip, I'm still really leaning to the need for separation with to address all these very valid concerns the "against" crowd brings up....

well the smart ones do anyway!

aren't those cliques more like 3-4 girls roughly? Regardless, some interesting points @@Scouter Matt

yep, agreed. but very different feel I think they might appeal to cub scouts aged kids and a bit to the parents maybe The South African one was more adult focused I think

I read something similar to that when I was reading through the MB requirements... some note to the counselor about needing approval from council or some such thing.... I could be wrong, but I think that statement you're referencing @@KenD500 applies to the certification instructor, not the MBC The Boy Scouts of America is not a dive certification agency. Your merit badge counselor can help you find a scuba agency recognized by the Boy Scouts of America scuba policy so that you can fulfill requirement 4. reading the requirements I see no reason why I couldn't serve as mentor for a scout and review the requirements. regardless, if the rule is that I'm "not worthy" and they don't want me.....ok by me.... just offering to help. That'll give me more time to cut my grass anyway, and then maybe get back into it myself!!

I think this is a very valid point Maybe the separate dens or patrols might help with this, or maybe not.... that's why I'm clouded on it. Still, my gut says I'm for it....

I'm for it But I'm leaning towards the idea that there would be different dens in Cubs for the girls, and different patrols for the girls in scouts. They would come together and interact for unit level things. I feel like this is needed to give the boys times that they can be boys and the girls likewise.... this being based on the idea that they will act differently when together. All sorts of other ideas cloud my thinking on it though..... would there need to be different standards for the girls? Different focus in their requirements to better appeal to their interests and needs? and I don't really care how it would affect the GSUSA... My daughter has been in their program for 3 years now.... 1st year as a Brownie this year.... and I so far am impressed by the energy and creativity from their leaders, but I'm not so impressed with the program, what I've seen of it anyway

SSI, but not instructor... I'm a Divecon.... which is an Assistant Instructor + Divemaster (seems nobody has ever heard of divecon, or Dive Control Specialist) I also hold certs from IANTD as Trimix Diver, Technical Diver, Mixed Gas Blender, Equipment Tech.....and a whole bunch of other little recreational specialty certs. I used to do quite a bit of it. Had a lot of fun but then it seems life got in the way so I haven't been active in a while, but I figure with my experience I could help mentor some young scouts that might be interested in the sport... Are you a diver @@dfolson? This whole thing has me thinking of taking my son for his Jr Certification and getting wet again!

love it @@Stosh! and I agree with you @@desertrat77 I understand the idea of expanding the boys', approaching people, selling, hard work, and all of that but I'm not convinced it really works. The boys that are not shy sell. Some of them sell big The shy kids will still be shy, even after they are tortured by being made to knock on doors. They will be no more likely to want to sell more, no more likely to come out of their shell.... well maybe 1 out of 100 will, but that's all just theoretical... How do I know? I was that shy kid being forced to sell decorative candles, candy, and other stuff I knew that nobody wanted... torture. i hated it. In fact it was one reason I wasn't so gung ho about participating in scouts and such! I eventually came out of my shell, but it had nothing to do with those fundraisers.

but what "adventure" do they do at these places? I for one am still trying to understand what these existing venture crews do that's so special.... Don't get me wrong, I love the idea since these are things I liked to do and am interested in.... but my imagination limits what I can think to do around here....

not a where, but a what..... Kinda seems to me that it's a bit of both hard to have much "high adventure" without something to challenge vertical - as in climbing, rappelling, etc... action - white water, skiing, canoeing perhaps, sailing challenge - SCUBA, snow caves, primitive survival distance - multi-day hikes... but then that's not much of an adventure unless some of these other things are thrown in... so while a few of these might be possible any old place, most require a where to make happen

does the BSA even do TV adds? or even radio spots for that matter? don't believe I've ever seen/heard one....

wonder why there's what appears to be a 1st year WEBELOS scout advertising merit badge classes?

I'm interested in following this thread, even though I'm a ways away from this point.... But I have wondered what sorts of things that a venture troop would go that a regular troop wouldn't around here.... North Florida I mean, If you live near the mountains, I can see doing some more hard-core multi-day hikes in the mountains... maybe so "Running Wild With Bear Grylls" type stuff But around here... maybe a multi day canoe down the Suwannee maybe.... a SCUBA trip perhaps....???