Trevorum

wow ... I was just kidding about his poor spelling ... This kinda reminds me of the scene in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, where Indy, dressed as a conductor, throws the bad guy out of the window and says to the other passengers, "No ticket!", whereupon every one immediately runs their spell checker ...

Beav, I agree - like I said, the topics should not be visible. (I'd like to know who got the "ahhh! Rain!", 'cause we sure didn't down here in Texas!) And thanks, Hops. I'm glad to learn that the glitch will be addressed.

Our troop appears to be in the minority on this one. We encourage all advancement oriented service projects to be for non-BSA organizations. That's not to say we don't do internal service, too. But a clear distinction between service that counts towards advancement and service that does not has proven useful. Along this same topic, we have created the troop leadership position of "Service opportunity coordinator" (functions like an ASPL), to research community service opportunities, regularly report to the troop on these, and organize troop-wide service days. (Only one catch: as a SM designated leadership job, this job isn't valid for Life rank working towards Eagle.)

i lost it because of ... (gasp) ... soap poisoning!

Semper, it looks like there may be an offending post of his that has been deleted, one that he later claimed he did not write. (His reasons include the fact that the imposter could spell.)

Semper, my guess is, it was his spelling ... I don't know the reason but I'm not surprised to learn of this, given the recent spate of topics in the "secret forums". See my post below in Issues.

OK, so I'm a troublemaker (like Packsaddle has charged). But it bothers to me to see the topics of secret forums that we rank and file members may not access, secret forums that identify the names of individual users and charge that they "must GO!!". If our new uberclass must have secret forums, I think their topics should be kept secret too, not just the posts themselves. That way we can at least be surprised when we are told the Star Chamber says to shape up or ship out. (Am I being paranoid? Even paranoids have real enemies, heh, heh...)

ConcernedScout, Todays news just broke my heart - another Scouting fatality. Fred's info that the boy was LDS, coupled with the loose lifejacket report convinces me that you have indeed identified an important problem with adult training. As with all whistleblowers, you will be vilified from within your church if you decide to pursue this; you'll need some strong allies from within in order to prevail. I hope you stay the course, this is important. IMHO, the stream of injuries and deaths may be symptoms of a larger issue - the subtle but critical differences in the ways the Scouting program is offered between LDS and non-LDS units. The posts above have touched on many possible contributing factors. Good luck.

In his mangled way, our new friend Juris has nonetheless raised a point. The Webelos to Scout transition is a "leaky pipeline". We have discussed this within our troop, have developed some thoughts as to why and have come up with some action ideas. Nothing too revolutionary I am sure (and of course it all boils down to program), but we are determined to do a better job this coming year. I'd certainly like to hear from y'all what works for you and what doesn't. How do we get more of those Webelos to join a troop, and how do we keep them active the first 6 months (until summer camp rolls around)?

Rooster, you know my thoughts on this matter, so let me look carefully at what you have said. I'll put your statements in italics. 1. "The Ten Commandments has historical significance to this country and its government." True for our country; I'm not so sure about our government. 2. "It is the most renowned set of laws ever given." True, at least in the western world. In terms of sheer recognition factor, Hammurabi's code, the Magna Carta, and others don't come close. 3. "In particular, the Ten Commandments are significantly important tenants of the Jewish and Christian faiths." Obviously true. Also, Islam. 4. "Until the revisionist of the sixties and seventies came along, most in this country agreed that the American legal system was based on Judeo-Christian values." I'd quibble with your choice of words for "revisionists", but still true enough. 5. "In fact, Id be willing to bet that most folks still believe that to be true." Probably true. They'd be wrong, as Beaver has pointed out, but they probably believe it nonetheless. 6. "It should not surprise anyone that the SCOTUS accepts these monuments (recognizing the Ten Commandments) as having historical significance to these United States." Given all the above, true. 7. "What is surprising is that they cant seem to accept it as being universally true, only under the right conditions." Aha, here is where we differ. Accepting the 10 commandments as "universally true" presupposes that one believes in that particular religion. For example, Buddhists do not accept the 10C as "universally true", especially commandments 1-4. If the SCOTUS were to accept the 10C as "universally true", they would be establishing one particular kind of religion over another, which is unconstitutional. But see, we're not so far apart! 6 out of 7 isn't too bad!

(shhh! it's a secret that parenting is the hardest thing in the world! we can't let our kids know, or else we'll never have any grandkids! ) He'll do just fine. You'd do fine, right? He'll do fine, too!

Beav, I agree. I, too, used to participate in a political forum, but the constant mud was discouraging and the polarization was depressing. That's one of the reasons I very much appreciate Scouter Terry providing us with this Issues & Politics forum, where topics of marginal reference to Scouting may be discussed in a civil manner. We are a diverse bunch (ain't it great!) here and topics can generally be examined from several perspectives without labels being tossed about. I truly enjoy reading the posts of those with whom I disagree here because I learn from them and because we are all trying to abide by the Scout Law (well, except for a very few non-Scouters). Sometimes we slip up (once, I called someone a name and have regretted it ever since), but that is what our friends the moderators are for: to clean up our unsightly drips of spittle. (yuch. go ahead and edit that last part if you want to...)

FS, yes thank you, I had already linked to the official trademark site. It gives good info but it does not say anything about the history of the logo. I started thinking about this after realizing that the Scout Emblem in the 2005 Jamboree patch is the traditional four color emblem (aka the Tenderfoot badge). The only other place I could find this usage by National is by the 1910 Scociety. Interestingly a few councils still use it on CSPs. I am assuming - unless someone has other information - that the old logo is still official, just like old uniforms are still official.

Ron, you should post and ramble more often! I much enjoyed reading your thoughts. Have you read the excellent articles by Dave Scott, who sometimes posts here under the handle "Miki"? (see http://www.scouting.milestones.btinternet.co.uk/seton.htm)

Has anyone earned the spoof Coffee Drinking MB? It's even silver-bordered! (see http://www.streamwood.net/ goto spoofs/merit badges)

I'm making up some "business" cards with my name and address to hand out to new friends I meet at the Jamboree. In looking for some public domain images, I began wondering when the Scout Emblem of my youth was changed into the red and white, art-deco logo we have today. Does anyone know? Just curious.

you mean ... (gasp) ... meat comes from animals???? ewww! ... I always thought it came from the grocery store!

I agree that the redacted parts seemed to be personal asides and did nothing to move the discussion forward. In addition, I greatly appreciciate the professional manner in which the edits were done, using brackets and elipses to clearly indicate what was snipped. I've been edited before, and while perhaps appropriate, it was not clear to the later reader what were MY words and what may have been changed by a staff member. Personally, I really get tired of the petty sniping on these forums sometimes and think that both [cut] and [cut] should ... and then [edited].... Now, if we can only get someone to clean up our spelling and syntax!

Rootbeer, Is that your COPE name?

gavin, Good points. But the Rede isn't a document comparable to the 10C; it's religious tradition only. That's part of the problem, of course. Many religious traditions do not have holy scriptures in the Judeo-Christian-Islamic sense (indeed, that is why these tribes are referred to as "People of the Book"). Maybe we could put up a fat Buddha next to the Ten Commandments. [FWIW, the Rede is celebrated elsewhere in Austin, "the pagan capital of Texas".] In any event, your point #2 is the crux of the matter for me. I'm not all that upset that the 10C monument will remain - it is situated in a parklike setting 100 m or more from the actual capitol building and is not all that intimidating (or even noticeable). However, the same could not be said for the courthouse displays (especially Judge Moore's infamous behemoth) which would certainly seem to give governmental imprimatur to the message that some religions are more acceptable than others. The political history of our country is inextricably intertwined with religion, as it is with race. Our money, our buildings, our oaths, all have grandfathered religious remnants of a time when the country did not value diversity and justice for all to the degree that we do today. I feel we should recognize the historical roots of these symbols and not necessarily expunge them in revisionism. At the same time, let's certainly not perpetuate the oppressiveness of a state sanctioned religion. I think the SCOTUS ruling tried for a balance between these two extremes.

I think the reasoning in the decison was a carefully crafted compromise which will mollify both sides but satisfy no one. However, this particular monument was a poor choice for the SCOTUS case, IMHO, and was lucky to be grandfathered. It is one of only two of 17 monuments on the grounds of the Capitol that have nothing directly to do with Texas history, and the ONLY one that has nothing to do with US history. I think it was a shaky argument. FYI, the others are: Heroes of the Alamo, Confederate Soldiers, Hood's Texas Brigade, Spanish-American Texas soldiers, 36th Texas Infantry, WWI Texas military, Pearl Harbor Texas military, Korean War Texas military, Texas Rangers (not the BB team), Texas pioneer women, Texas children, Texas police, disabled Texas veterans, Texas cowboys (not the FB team), Texas volunteer firemen, Statue of Liberty (erected by Boy Scouts in 1951), the Ten Commandments.

An interesting thought experiment. Certainly just being outdoors is not an essential ingredient to achieving our aims of character development, promoting personal fitness, and fostering citizenship. Many people have achieved these aims without ever being outside of downtown Brooklyn, say. However, the outdoors provides a laboratory of sorts, somewhat isolated from the day-to-day distractions, in which we can focus on fundamentals. I think that is the key. The outdoors provides a change of venue which strips away the non-essentials of daily life. So what would a youth character development program look like in the 23rd century when there is no more "outdoors"? Maybe excursions to the far side of Luna in thermally controlled pressure bubbles. Would that be Scouting? Perhaps not as we know it, but if it builds character, fosters citizenship, and promotes personal fitness, who cares?

Some of my best friends are ilkish ... (not that there's anything wrong with that!)

Ed, I think it's a frieze, not a fresco. But I agree. An interesting compromise.

There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary and those who don't. FS: sounds like a case for the black helicopters...