Trevorum

Well, I see we have a disagreement! emb021 says, "No, there is no such rule." OK, so you agree that there is NO RULE limiting what CSP may or may not be worn on the shoulder. Anything more is merely YOUR opinion. "Just because a patch is in the SHAPE of a CSP, doesn't make it a CSP." heh, heh. Well, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck ... That is to say: ANY patch that is (1) approved or issued by a council (2) in any of the four BSA approved shapes that (3) identifies the council name and (4) contains the fdl, the Scout Emblem, or "BSA" is ipso facto a Council Shoulder Patch. Yes, there are sub-types of CSPs, including the SAP and JSP. But many councils (including my own) offer multiple and alternative designs of CSP simultaneously. These are not issued in association with any activity (such as Philmont, Wood Badge, etc.) and are therefore NOT classified as SAPs. Scouts and Scouters may wear whichever they like. And National policy regarding Jamboree insignia specify that "temporary" insignia be removed after 6 months. If the Jamboree patch itself is not considered temporary (it's not), then I don't see how the JSP can be considered temporary. As I said above, what are temporary are the troop numerals, position insignia, etc. And as I said, it is a minor breach of etiquette (but NOT a policy violation) to wear a CSP for an activity in which one did not participate. Of course, you are free to disagree ...

Hi Fred, My understanding is the legislation passed (or went into effect) on April 16. To be fair to my district folks, I missed our April RT and maybe it was discussed then. So this just hit my radar this week when SMs recieved an email. I sorta believe though that councils must have known this legislation was pending, and so could have gotten the word out a mite sooner. Regardless, I think it is a positive step towards increased YP and I support it 100%.

Michelle, An excellent question! Any CSP issued by a council is "legal tender" for shoulder wear. If it has the name of the council then it is legitimate council identification. Period. And forever. Yes, there is some difference of opinion as to whether or not Jamboree shoulder patches "expire" after 6 months, but the consensus is that JSPs may be worn as long as one wishes (what does expire are the temporary jamboree troop emblems, jamboree position patches and other temporary insignia). That said, it is sort of a faux pas to wear a CSP one did not earn (or in the case of FOS, pay for). I disagree with emb021. There is absolutely no rule that says everyone in a council should wear the same CSP. If the council has issued it, it's wearable.

That's very cool! I will be sure to read your article! Did you submit an unsolicited piece or was it by request?

moxie, that's a very interesting idea which I had never considered before. Council Execs are empowered to make changes to the uniform! How about that!

Yep, very similar. At least NY councils had a year to get their ducks in a row. Our legislation psssed just last month and as a result, volunteers are scrambling to ensure compliance before summer camp. (I'm sure this was on our councils radar and I wonder why thay didn't give us any head's up?). You say that your council will require position specific training before recharter? A good idea, but it will be a difficult transition, I'll bet.

fyi The State of Texas has adopted new regulations governing operations of youth camps, effective immediately. These regulations will affect all BSA summer camps in Texas. see http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/youthcamp/rules.shtm In compliance with the new regulations, BSA councils are requiring that ALL adults who will be camping with youth for more than 4 hours provide (1) proof of BSA registration, (2) proof of a background check with the State sexual offenders data base, and (3) proof of BSA Youth Protection Training taken after April 16, 2006.

Some folks see the official BSA uniform as an opportunity to color within the lines. Others see uniforming as an opportunity to achieve the Aims. Then there are some who grudgingly accept the uniform as part of the Scouting package. We probably all know folks in each category. I've been known to poke fun at the excesses of the UP. However, I've also been known to refuse to hold a SM conference for a Scout who showed up without a neckerchief because he "just left it at home". I've recieved dirty looks from Scouters (never Scouts) because I wear the Inclusive Scouting Emblem, a non-official patch, on my optional patch pocket. I've also been criticized for wearing a patrol patch as an adult, as is the custom in our troop. I remember that I did NOT say anything when the SPL once wore pink trousers to a court of honor (his buddies did though!) Sometimes I think it a matter of just seeing the forest.

How do the Eagle candidates in your unit manage their funds? Lately, many of our eagle projects have had pretty sizeable budgets for materials. Many have been in the $300-$500 range, with some budgets up to $1500. Raising these monies is a major undertaking itself for the candidate, often taking several months or longer, with funds dribbling in from a variety of sources. Some troops allow candidates to "park" tagged funds in the troop account for later withdrawal. Other troops assume that custody of the money is the candidates responsibility.

Would you believe that even the men's necktie was once a functional article of attire? Now it is purely decorative (or not), symbolic (power), and is very uncomfortable. The Scout neckerchief, borrowed from cowboy bandannas, is on a similar evolutionary path. No longer functional (as has noted by SSScout), it is also becoming decorative and uncomfortable (as noted by 'Beav). That's sad, but not surprising, I suppose. What is funny is that I find myself wearing a functional bandanna with my activity uniform (some say: "Class B"). The 'ol bandanna shades my neck, absorbs sweat, and is wonderfully cooling when damp. I also regularly use the bandanna as a dust mask, headband, potholder, and handerchief. I have used bandannas as flagging on exposed guy lines, as direct pressure bandages, and torn and twisted as cord. Wouldn't want to do any of that with my fancy, dress uniform neckerchief ... they might not let me into the next Court of Honor

Kahuna, take a break from the forum, but stop by again now and then. Your wisdom and perspective have helped many of us more than you know. It's the electronic media that does it, ya know. Makes rudeness so much easier and, at the same time, so much easier to misunderstand and be misunderstood. aloha

Well, I'm glad I consulted with you guys! This is new territory for me and I want to make sure these two fellows get the most from Scouting as we can offer. I will follow up with our District chair (and with the Council chair too, if necessary).

'Ky, Thank you for your points. I may have misunderstood and I will deinitely check on that point #2 (It may be that our meeting was itself being considered the prior coordination with council, as far as these two particular scouts is concerned.) I am planning on obtaining the policy pamphlet so I can read the official guidelines. I do know that our district advancement person is in fact a "professional person involved in Scouting for disabled youth". I plan to stay in close coordination with her.

Our troop has two fellows with Downs' Syndrome who are just starting on their Scouting paths. We've had a bit of uncertainty as to which requirements to "bend" and how far, so we set up a meeting with the district advancement coordinator, our troop advancement chair, the parents for the fellows, and myself (SM). I learned a lot and I'd like to share some of that here. (I strongly encourage other SM's to consult with your district advancement person regarding any of the information I offer; other councils may have slightly different takes on BSA policies.) 1. Scouts with some medical conditions (including Downs) have until their 22nd birthday to complete the requirements for Eagle. 2. Until the Life rank is awarded, all advancement procedures are at the unit level. This means that no special coordination with council is required for any alternative requirements until a scout becomes an Eagle candidate. Importantly, once a unit has certified a scout as having earned a rank (through Life), council may not second guess the procedures for any rank. 3. Parents of special need scouts are encouraged to review the requirements for each next rank and evaluate whether their son may have difficulties with any requirement. Parents should coordinate with the SM in advance regarding these requirements. At the same time, all scouts are encouraged to try to achieve the standard requirements. The SM, in consultation with the parents (and the physician if warranted) can unilaterally determine an alternative requirement for rank advancement. For example, a scout who can not swim (for medical reasons) may be given a comparable hiking requirement to satisfy the 1st Class swimming reqirement. 4. The SM conference is the test for skills and knowledge and should be geared for the abilities of the Scout. In some cases, the parent or guardian may be allowed to participate in the SM conference to assist a Scout who has a communication disability. Once the SM has signed off on all rank requirements, the Board of review should not retest but rather should explore the quality of scouts experience in the unit. Again, a parent may be allowed to sit in on the BoR, which should never be longer than 15 minutes. Under extreme circumstances, BoRs may adjourn (to be reconvened at a specified later date) but should not "fail" any candidate. 5. Similarly for merit badges, scouts should be encouraged to try all of the standard requirements, but counselors have unilateral authority to apply alternative requirements as may be appropriate on a case-by case basis. Counselors do not need to be BSA registered (this may be a council policy?) but need to be recognized as experts in the subject. Of course, all scouts need to obtain the SM's signature before working on any MB. Once the blue card (or equivalent) is signed by the counselor and the SM, the MB is approved; the troop advancement committee is not involved. 6. For Eagle required MBs, if an entire MB is to be substituted, then council needs to be consulted to ensure that the substitute MB is adequate (eg., Leatherwork should not be substituted for Swimming) and is satisfactorily documented. A statement should be prepared by the SM explaining the alternative MB. Also, if alternative procedures are adopted, a medical statement should be filed with the eagle application. I hope that I have not made any errors in reviewing my notes from the meeting, and I certainly welcome comments from others who may be more experienced in these procedures than myself. I am looking forward to working with these two young fellows in our troop!

Ahhh, I can hear the UP now, grousing off-stage, "If you're going to use the uniform as a method, why not use it correctly!"

Are grommets part of the flag or not? hmmm ... interesting... I've never thought of grommets as actually part of the flag. They're more like just the hardware that helps display the flag. I really like CheerfulEagle's idea of distributing the grommets to those who participated in the ceremony.

I've taught my children to think for themselves and not just believe what other people tell them ("mentally awake"). I've also taught them that following an unjust law is wrong. The law may be legal today, but it will always be wrong. At the same time I've taught them the importance of the rule of law in preserving the cohesiveness of our society, and that if they choose to disobey a law in good conscience, they also need to be prepared to suffer the consequences. I think this is at the core of "making ethical choices", not just blindly following the crowd.

Re-reading this thread, I think Gern is right. It is all a matter of trust and respect. Suspicions of illicit sexual activity are in the eye of the beholder.

Wow. In my workplace, when it comes to lunch, gender is totally and completely irrelevant. If I was to decline invitations to lunch based on gender, I'd eat alone a lot of the time. Plus, I'd be considered some kind of a wacko.

Winter camping is when you gotta wear a long sleeve T-shirt under your field uniform. (In Texas.)

"Then you're wife is OK with you sleeping with a female Scout leader, as is the husband of that female leader? Do you mean "sleeping with" as in engaging in sexual conduct? Or do you mean "sleeping with" as proximity during a natural state of rest characterized by a reduction in voluntary body movement, decreased awareness of the surroundings, and a decreased metabolism? If the former, no. If the latter, yes.

Our PLC decided to have a flag retirement ceremony on Memorial day, fast approaching. We've done this before with one or two flags but somehow this year we have accumulated more than a dozen flags to retire. The SPL is planning this ceremony. I suggested to him that with this number of flags, our traditional method may take all night and perhaps we should have an "all hands on deck" ceremony with each scout actively participating. We want the ceremony to be solemn and respectful without turning into a (dis-)assembly line - and I'd like to give him some ideas to work with. Does anyone have any ceremonies that have worked for a large number of flags?

Calico sez, "...the boonie hat can't hold a candle to the beret for presenting a sharply dressed and sharp looking troop of boy scouts in a local 4th of July parade." OK, but that's not the point of a hat, now is it? Unless you're in the Coldstream Guards. John sez, "A BOONIE HAT also keeps your ears from a crisping sunburn ..." Ahh, John gets right to the heart of the matter. I'll wear a full-brimmed hat in the Texas sun. If it squooshes up in my backpack or pocket, so much the better. My daughter says I look goofy in a boonie hat, but I'm not wearing it to impress high school girls (or to look sharp in a parade!). Besides, as I've said before, the beret is just fruity. IMHO.

hello reiguy, and welcome to the forums! I'd tend to agree with you. He should participate in his Wolf year of Cubs with his den mates regardless of what happens with him academically.

We don't use "permission slips". Scouts add their name to the campout roster 2-3 weeks in advance and an ASM files the tour permit. Money for grub is collected by the patrols; special fees (if any) will be collected by the ASM. As we gather and load up for a campout, an ASPL will distribute medical release/liability waivers to parents and collect these with parent signatures. The SPL then uses these as the final activity roster. The SM keeps these handy (just in case) and after the campout they are turned in to the records committee chair who closes the loop and updates TroopMaster.