theysawyoucomin'

Gern,

Is it possible he gave them to somebody else prior to us invading. I don't know who. I just ask if it's possible.

Saddam's list of people to fear

Kurds

Iranians

Imperialist oil hungry America (at least that's what the TV says we are)

Hmmmm,

I kill one for sport before breakfast.

The second I battled for 8 years to stalemate.

The third went from "go" to 20 some days of bombing to standing on my throat and threatening to cut off my soft parts in 4 days. Has an Air force I can't see or touch. And somebody that looked remotely like me recently killed 3000 people at their desks at work. Half the American people don't know Farsi from Arabic they collective call us camel jockies and I plotted to kill his daddy. Their President is trying to tie me in with the guy that killed all those people. That event was so big it made Americans stop arguing for about a month.

Me, Saddam has been in power for over 30 years sometimes by killing my friends, which of those 3 dogs described above do I want to mess with the most?

I doesn't wash Gern, a possible conflict with one and two or certain death by opening door#3, the biggest dog that is still digesting you from '91 and after Sept 11 is looking to kill somebody to feel better about themselves.

We can't notice 12-20 million Mexican invaders but we can sure whip anybody's tail in a war. We're still good at something. The only reason Iraq has taken longer than WW2 is because we are trying to help half the population. In WW2 we didn't care about how many Japanese or Germans we killed. We firebombed Tokyo and killed more people there, with plain old fire, than with one nuclear bomb.

Or I let the inspectors in and the world feels confident that I'm (Saddam) only going to kill my own people and maybe a few fellow Middle Eastern folks that made America look like idiots in the mid-1970's.

I maintain he would still be in power if he let the inspectors do their job like he agreed to when we had our foot on his throat in spring of '91.

I wish he had let the inspectors in. 4000 of our folks would stiil be alive. 50% of the country wouldn't hate the President, though some would still find a way, VFW membership would still be lagging, and we would have less debt.

Hillary Clinton said Saddam had to be stopped and she is the smartest lady in the world.

Anybody looking for WMD can go exhume some 5 year old Kurdish children and look in their lungs. Poison gas is a WMD. Nobody cared about those five year olds. Little brown kids don't get much press unless the US did it.

If Saddam had no WMD why didn't he simply comply with the UN demand for inspection?

If he had nothing to hide, why not let folks look. If the inspections had occured ,no way would any invasion ever have taken place.

No matter what side of the aisle you are on you cannot answer that question. Why didn't he let people look if he had nothing to hide? Don't tell me national sovergnity (spelling?) he sure lost that with 100k invaders on his soil.

Saddam was a master at staying in power, did he miscalculate a second time? He thought the US and world didn't care about Kuwait.

Wrong, all those conservatives need gas to drive to the gun club to shoot their automatic weapons, all those liberals need to drive to their wine and cheese parties and think up new gov. programs.

He thought the US would not come backafter Sept 11th. He probably had nothing to do with it but a wounded beast doesn't dare about who blood is going to get spilled. After Sept. 11th we were a wounded beast. He misjudged again and paid with his life and his sons. As for being an illegal war or GWB standing a Nurmberg (sp?) type trial in some liberal small town in Vermont, the UN said Saddam was fair game for anybody. The folks in Vermont want to cede all power to the UN except when it does not suit them.

As for finding the WMD, is it possible somebody got a pretty nice gun collection prior to us going in there? I know the DNC doesn't think it's possible, but it could be. Maybe we'll find something in a container in one of our ports and there won't be an argument at all.

Only this time it will be our five year olds.

No sir, not at all.

If I had waited ,I would not have gotten a DC at all.

My son was a DC and an APL at the same time.

I also consulted with the SM and since the DC candidiate thought it was ok the SM said ok.

Not every Troop marches to the beat of the handbook. Some Troops have PL's that swear at the Scouts and need to be releived. Some Troops have SPL's that are worthless. A DL is not always likely to have contact with the feeder troop. The SPL may not be aware of the need.

That's how I did it bob, I'm going to be the SM in a couple of weeks I'll be sure to do it the other way in the future.

Bob,

Ursus asked for what worked. I know 20 cubs that were enriched this way. But I thank you for the handbook directive. I can't undo the fun the boys had.

If the SPL picks a Scout to do it, and the Scout doesn't want to, does the SPL apply servant leadership and do the the additional task. We have SPL's that can't run a police call, you really expect them to pick/ "order" a boy to do a year long position?

Please, the BSA just had me vote yes on a BOR for Eagle because the "be active" wording should be "at a minimum pay $11.00 per year and be counted/carried on the rolls of a unit you do not have to go camping with. Focus on yourself and your needs." I digress.

Sometimes Irving expects us to run a program the best we see fit because we are actually there.

Patton(whom I have no resemblance in any manner) once was ordered by SHEAF "do not take the city of Trier with any less than three divisions".

He messaged back, "I have already taken Trier with two divisions. Do you want me to give it back?"

Roaring snoring Bear,

Select the DC as you may, try it bob's way, Pick the right kids, with helpful parents, a suppotrive DL and it could be the best POR a kid has. More of the cubs will crossover. You'll see the joy in the cubs eyes whenever they see their DC. Make the DC a rock star.

Good Luck

First,

Remember what Stosh said on another thread. Rank and age aside, it is the spirit of the Boy scout that will determine if he is a good DC.

I have only seen three successful DC in 7 years, and 5 failures. Failure being defined as the DC not staying for a year , not doing the job, saying yes and then not even attending a meeting.

1 Criteria: Two of the DC that met with success both went to Council/District day long training. I don't know how much it helped in the end but at least it told the DC's what to do. "Wasting" a Saturday away from the Pirates of the Carib video game doing DC training will show some level of committment. Selection should be by SM DL and parents all working together for the DC and the Cubs. The DL should take the online training and refer to it.

2.Again I think all of the above should work in concert to find a DC. The Parent DL (of the DC and cubs) may bring family baggage to the situation. You all be the judge.Big brother DC bossing the cub while Mom is the DL is a recipe for bedlam.

3.

I think the DL and SM should talk. it is afterall a POR within the Troop. Insure that the DL knows how to guide the boy scout in having his rope turn red, white and blue by earning the DC award. You will find it online. I never went in for requiring the boys to lead singing. Magic tricks, crafts, and general help can make the cubs think of the boys as a leader. Our DC led the soda bottle rocket activity, electric motor bear activity, went on two camping trips with Webelos.

4. Troop

I had my meetings after school twice a month. For saturday activities I told the DC to go with the Troop. When the cubs wanted to know where he was I told them camping ect. to make the DC appear outdoorsy to the cub. I did not embellish but I did talk about hiking , camping, cooking all with the thought that soon enough cubs you'll be doing the same.

Most important I had the DC lead a min of one activity each meeting. It made the Cubs listen to him solely for some meeting time. HE was a leader at that time even if it was a game, magic trick or craft. He led. I would tell the Cubs in front of the parents, "Make sure you tell your folks about what Ian did". This would lead to a further talk at home.

Soda bottle water rockets was the first event he did.

The next meeting I did a magic trick that was in a cub book when I was a boy. We put a hankercheif over the DC hand while he gave the universal "thumbs up" gesture. I had some pins which the cubs all looked at, while their attention was diverted the DC took the carrot he palmed under the hankercheif and replaced it from where histhumb was. I proceeded to stick pins in his "thumb" while he made faces of pain. I told the cubs he was the toughest boy in the Troop. My own son said we was going to be sick to his stomach just watching. Well I pulled about ten pins back out and the boys all wanted to see the bloddy thumb. We uncovered the thumb and there was no marks from the pins.

The DC just stood there happily eating the carrott.

We then told the cubs the secret.

the comment Stosh made rings clear. Rank is not the sole measure of the boy and more than wealth being the measure of having class.

You do have to look at the spirit of the boy.

This boy is too young by your decription. Get him some training for DC and towards first class and let him grow.

iS THIS BOY AN OLDER BROTHER OF ONE OF THE CUBS?

oops caps.

Is this an older brother?

Maybe the thing do do is read him the lit where it says you have to be a first class. Tell him you made the mistake and tell him when he is a First Class that you would be happy to have him back. May even spur him to "turn to" on the first class items.

Back to the older brother question. Sometimes the family dynamic isn't great between the leader and the led. Might be better if all the cubs were strangers to start.

I think this is one of the reasons they think you should be a First Class Scout before doing this POR. Real live normal first class scouts that really know their stuff are about 15 months out of the pack and know what they are there for.

Some like my DC years back and my son who just completed his were second class at the start but went to first before their tenure was up.

You folks blew it by allowing this. Find a way to say he can do it again later, have the SM give him a very likable very good POR that will help the boy out of the situation with some dignity.

Going only from your post he is simply not ready.

Maybe DC training would help but waiting for district or council to teach it isn't a great place to be.

Do something now. This kid should be working on trail to FC, not trying to lead.

Never went, never thought about going.

I would like my son to go. What uniform parts will be allowed for the Jamboree?

How does this work

Stosh,

Kudos to you for the mother analogy.

I'm going to use it. I'll say, "Someone once said.....

This would all be so easy if the boys just showed up and did the program.

We ague endlessly over what active is, some here don't like the idea of Eagles who fall off the turnip truck and suddenly want the award even though half the first class scouts don't know who he is, some of us would morph the english language just to have kids get what they want.Parents suing to get their little boy an award that is supposed to mean something.

Why can't the boys make time for Scouting and why can't we tell them no?

What are we afraid of?

Lawsuits because the kid didn't make Eagle?!?!?!?!!?

National fears these idiots?!?!?!

We sure are teaching them about how to be Americans, sue and you'll get your way.

I thought we only had to keep them from getting abused, hurt on a camping trip or keep the water out of their lungs while boating and swimming.

Now we have to preserve their self esteem for not doing their job.

I do agree about the counselling , it's just most of the leaders I have seen don't have the stomach to do it.

The world is nut's. In the 1980's they wouldn't let me join the military if I liked boys better than girls, Clinton said it was OK as long as I didn't tell anybody. I'm sure glad I got out before it was a requirement.

Train em' and make sure they do their job. Nobody is doing these kids any favors by putting up with this garbage.

we just had a long thread about doing half the stuff at 14 and the rest 6 months before you turn 18, all without showing up and a large majority of people are fine with it.

Bulldog you have no clue if you expect a kid to actually show up.

How in HADES can we expect a definition of active from a group that is afraid of lawsuits for it's highest award.

My son was truly blessed to have a heck of a nice kid as a den chief. I was the Den Leader and the DC stayed for 2 years. He was the SPL when the den crossed over. I asked him along with his parents to undertake the task. Kid was never a cub. He is currently one MB from Eagle.

My son just did about 14 months as a DC. He liked it , he liked the boys, the boys liked him. My son has his BOR for star coming up.

Good sevice was modelled by the older boy , my son just copied it.

I think you have to make sure the DC parents buy off on the concept. They will be running around for materials and helping the DC prepare. If this kid is barely active as a Scout he is doomed.

Hit the kids who were cubs first. Most kids get the idea of being a mentor. Some kids want to be a hero, which is exactly what they become if they do it right.

Ask the SM which kids would be best suited. I've seen many more kids fail at it than succeed.

I hope this helped. Best of luck.

I wonder how many uniforms they sold?

If BSA National was run like a business somebody's head would roll for the ad campaign that flopped.

There is no shortage of ideas on how to reach the folks that are not buying the traditional program.

We saw a soccer program for Cubs earlier. It looked like it was mostly for hispanic kids but I'm sure it was for all soccer kids. How many kids enrolled in this? was it considered a success?

Has anybody seen this in their area?

Does anybody have any hard facts, or know where they are on the ISH (infosupahiway)?

We can talk about how to handle the influx of those eight million boys we will have if we would just allow gay men to lead and drop the DRP another time. Think of all those camps we'll have to buy back.

Trev,

I don't want to sound like aged flatulence here but does each generation try to out do the past one in outlandish acts?

Many of these were not practiced by youth but older people during the time.

1950's DA haircuts, greasers, gangs that fought with fists

1960's sexual rev, really awful music, even worse clothing, hair, drugs

1970's really really bad clothing, hair, drugs

1980's drugs, some bad music

1990's to present tatoos etc.

I wonder how long it is until HS seniors are submitting to pinky amputation or something else for shock and uniqueness.

The backwards hat thing is really original, along with all the middle /upper economic class kids listening to music written by and for angry urban youth.

Does it seem that each generation ups the ante or am I just a stick in the mud?

Well, I know I'm really a stick in the mud but does each up the ante, and is there a name or proof of this?

We had a guy in the 'Corps miss the ship in Turkey because he got arrested. Each of his tattoos had an "X" dug into his flesh over top of his tattoos and he said that they(fellow inmates) dug into his skin with a sharp object. I saw the bloody "X"'s but I don't know if I ever believed the story. Wherever Tully is in life I hope he found some happiness because he sure was troubled but he wasn't a bad guy. He just did bad things.

Booze makes people do stupid things.

As far as the service academies I personally saw a Army or Navy lax player this year sport crossed lax sticks on his calf. I wonder what kind of waiver he needed.

Nope I did not get the tattoo and I do not wish that I had. I could get one tomorrow and I could even afford it this time.

As far as the Asian meaning stuff.

There was a sitcom where two guys were commenting in one's new tattoo. The marked man said, "It means FIRE and STRENGTH" about that time the take out delivery chinese boy enters and says "No it not mean that, it means when two men love each other, you are the woman"

I thought it was funny as all get out not because of the Asian or love preference but just because there is a heck of alot of Americans that could be sold a bill of goods because they don't know the language.

Similar to, "I am a jellyroll". If that were even true. I was about two weeks old at the time, so I don't have a clue.

This Marine went shopping on Court St. In Jacksonville, NC for a tattoo. In those days Court St. was the place to be for wayward idiots or those who liked watching wayward idiots.

Well the tatoo I wanted was $85. When you make $550 monthy, Uncle Sam takes like $80 and you send home $200 to save for a car,and you stash $100 for College. Phone bill to call your girl is about $40.

Lets just say $85 was a heck of a lot for a pretty scar on your arm.

No leader or parent currently has a tattoo in my Troop.

Sorry Pack,

for my iggggnoorince I never earned the merit badge or I may have known that. My low brow view is that there are good bugs and bad bugs.

Pack, how do you bear to share the planet with us cretins?

Also, unless they be mayfly, caddis, stonefly or terrestrial I could care.

Let's remember we are talking about bugs here. They eat you when they can, if we were their size they would tear our soft flesh with relish.

Some folks think they may have souls, and that's ok but let's remember we live in a country that pays to abort humans. I once had a vegan tell me she wouldn't eat anything with a face, but if you stepped near her right to clear up last months oopsie then you were in for a fight. Irony.

Horseflies

Ticks

deerflies

ants

earwigs

roaches

green eyed manure flies

cluster flies

fruit flies

common house fly

Stink bugs

cucumber beetles

tent caterpillars

tomato hornworm

Japanese beetles

wasps

sow bugs

Daddy long legs

mosquitoes

slugs

Aphids

I am up to 21 is anybody weeping?

Wow! Let's try that again in English

I am thinking that they mentor the younger Scouts in accordance with the ideals of being boy led.

Hopefully some older Scout mentored them and the should mentor another Scout or hopefully Scouts. (plural)

But it sure as heck ain't required by National, so you're right it's a chuck load of hooey.

15 and 16 year olds who can give back can breed a culture of "let's make this better"

People desire to play on a winning team. The helping spirit of a Troop can perpetuate that uplift in a community. We are a tribal species, if the boy leaders set the course the young would follow.

Instead mostly I witness the spawn of the me generation as they try to find out what's in it for them. The surly creatures are winning.

I am thinking that they mentor the younger Scouts in accordance with the ideals of being boy led.

Hopefully some older Scout mentored them and the should mentor another Scout of hopefully Scouts.

But it sure as heck ain't required by National, so your right it's a chuck load of hooey.

We just hosted the Spring Campo and it took about 4 months.

The theme was Scout Olympics with various events from shooting, to archery, relay race. tug of war, jousting and about a dozen other major and minor sporting events. 350 kids attended. they had a blast.

Good luck with yours, delegate, superivise tasks before hand and insure the prep is done and rest up. It will be a sleepless weekend, enjoyable but sleepless.

Frankly what is most shocking is the way people seem to enjoy the fact that a Scout does not have to be present to win the Eagle award.

Being right seems to be more fun than attempting to make it better.

No where in the Scout book does it say we have to where trousers but we do because it implied that we do.

I am going to submit acco's post for review by Council.

Things need changing at least that's what 50% of America and one modern day savior say.

I've got 50 different kinds of horse flies

and deer flies they can have