Tampa Turtle

15 minutes ago, WisconsinMomma said:

I'm troop secretary.  Thanks for the feedback. 

A good secretary is important. Great position to find out what is going on. I guess you can spin some items as 'clarifications for the record'.

We thought for years we were brilliant in our recruiting and program but it turned out we met at a night that had less conflicts for most folks LOL.

David CO, While it is a "Free Market" I see nothing wrong with a CC using their position to encourage one Troop over another as well as it is above board. As long as folks know they have a choice. 

9 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

Cubber, I agree with all of the above, I just wanted to add a comment on the word "send" in your post.  No Cub Scout leader (whether den leader, Cubmaster, CC or anything else) has the authority to "send" anyone anywhere.  It is between the Cub Scout and his parents.  In the case of my son, after we visited the troop that most of his friends had gone to in the previous 1 or 2 years, he decided he did not want to visit any others and just go with that troop.  That is not necessarily "by the book" but I decided he was sure enough that it did not make sense to try to "force" him to visit others.

 

I know a family that "jumped" from the traditional feeder pack to expected Troop just because they wanted to be 'free' of some parents. While I hate to use the term "shop around". My boy wanted the Troop with ragged uniforms but an ambitious outdoor program over the nifty well known Eagle mill. It was his choice and while he was a bit over his head he stuck it out more than if I had made the selection.

Are you a mom or an ASM or what? I forgot. That would help. My takes.

(a) Why the heck not? As long as it doesn't compete with something else. Pitch as a trial. Have numbers.

(b) If it is a non-refundable deposit, propose it for the following year. I too had to fight this battle but eventually they started letting the boys choose.

(c) Yes and yes. Pick your battles.

(d) See (c). Once or twice. Pay attention to the answer.

(e) I'd be careful of that one. It is often between the SM and PLC. On the other hand in our Troop regular scouts can attend the PLC to observe. Have your lad do it and report back to you. Sometimes the PLC can be unproductive but that is SM's problem. 

Absolutely not. The CC is out of line.

Each family should visit Troops to see which will be the best fit. Each Troop culture is different. That said if a guy and a few buddies cross over together it helps but even then if it is a problematic Troop they may eventually drift away.

Now if it is corresponding religious based Pack and Troop you will have to weigh the implications of that yourself. 

The transition to Scouting is hard enough without reinventing the wheel. I would only do a 're-start' as a last resort. How does that Troop feel about recruiting some girls?

Not that the choice is this but I'd much rather have a co-ed Troop that is youth led and focused on adventure rather than Eagle than a adult-led Eagle Mill. I fear we will end up with co-ed Eagle Mills. But I can hold out hope.

NOW I get it! The Russians are hacking the Scouter.com forums to spread disunity and bring down the Boy Scouts! 

Oh this has turned for the ugly....one must try to remain scout like....I have remained a wee fat Turtle. Salmonella aside, I really don't hurt anyone.

On a serious note using multiple personages or impersonation seems unsportsmanlike IMHO.

...I am dying for the next chapter Qwazse...:)

BTW after watching some 8 or 10 adults (Scouters, old hangers on, and Committe members) cycle through Wood Badge I have not seen any real improvements brought back to the Troop. They all seem to have throughly enjoyed it, made great contacts, and are much more active at the Council and District events but has had it made them better scout leaders...not really. It has kept them away from some needed campouts and they do throw around a few terms like 'Storming and Norming'. 

In comparison I have seen active adult membership in our OA Lodge to bring back a higher tolerance for boy led and some fun activity ideas. Not a whole lot, but some.

Purely based on my unscientific survey:

Don't blame it on the female leaders, the decline is largely societal.

Of the 13 Adult MALE leaders I have worked with in the Troop over the last few years (the active heavy lifters) adding in myself in only 4 (or 30%) have that Scouting youth experience-one tenderfoot, three  Eagles.

Some of the best leaders actually stopped at Webelos but are older so their point of reference seems to be the 'old school scouting' they missed. The best is the Tenderfoot, followed by two of the Eagles. One of the worst is a 1980's Eagle who made it at 14 back in the day and wants to turn the place into an Eagle mill. He (and his wife) win a lot of hearts and minds because they are very financially generous and pull a lot of strings for special events. Of course their sons HATE scouting.

Sometimes the Scout-wanna be parents can be the most hard ass and dictatorial about the 'Micky Mouse' part of Scouting. 

A notable issue is the younger parents in the 30's to early 40's who seem all over the map on what they want out of scouts: from making men out of there boys, to a fun camping experience, to ticket punch for the Eagle. The one thing that they seem to have in common is a willingness to disregard advancement rules and requirements they do not agree with. (this seems true for this group from liberal to conservative--and we have both.)

The only thing that has kept things on an even keel is the flow of military families who seem to expect rules to be enforced even if they disagree.

AND to be fair with each passing year the percentage of BOYS who want the easy-peaesy Helipcopter Parent Merit Badge rapid advancement fest seems to grow. The pressure to work on those accomplishments for the future College Application starts really early from these boys.

21 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

That's the thing, up until this meeting no safety questions or concerns have been raised by anyone. It's all been advancement oriented. This happened out of the blue. And the manner and body language he used reinforced the negativity of the comments he made, as if we do not care at all. And as I stated, he is a registered Cub Scout leader and should know better. It was clearly implied that he does not trust any of the Scouts to do the right thing, and that he expects the adults to hover over all of the Scouts like he and his wife does.

 

Eagle, are you in my Troop? Sure sounds what I am experiencing. Oy Veh.!

I recall going over a peak in North Carolina at about that height with me and a slow lad watching a sparrow slowly flying into that wind for about 5 minutes to get over the peak. I tried taking a movie of the grass bending and to capture the sound and the clouds far below us moving and the tiny alpine type plants. But you never could really capture it though me and that boy mention it now and again. I recall being grateful for a rock outcropping to get out of the wind, brew up a quick cup, and --actually getting a signal--being able to call my wife on a cell phone for the first time in a week.

On 12/15/2017 at 4:46 PM, qwazse said:

TT, don't write off the informal ball-room dancing. It's one skill that many of the continental European scouts who I've met have that we don't. (I think that was more from schooling than their troop, but it sounds like there was a bit of synergy between the two.)

Also, talk to your council relation's committee, there may be some opportunities to meet scouts on exchange.

When my first son was a newbie me and a mom parent pranked him my telling him there was a new Eagle Required Merit Badge called Dance. It had a pink ballerina on the patch, required 3 hours of dancing with a girl (jazz, modern, and slow) and a 10 minute ballet recital before the troop and/or school. We kept this up for several weeks, the mom would insist she was the MBC and made up the mock patch. We were waiting for him to freak out and then we would all start laughing but he just sighed and said "If it is Eagle required I guess I have to do it...." He is now 19 and when he runs into the mom she teases him "Still got an opening Tuesday in my merit badge...we're doing Tap!". Smiles all around.

Yeah I guess it was hazing but if you cannot torment your own child what good are they?

I like the windy tents at about 1:29....brings back some memorable trip memories.

40 minutes ago, The Blancmange said:

My Hennessey has tie outs on the side of both the hammock and rainfly to minimize this.  Never been through a severe storm to test the limits of this, but my guess is that such a storm would be bad enough to affect anything less than a 4 season tent as well. 

Yes I tied down the ties outs with hiking poles, canted the tarp into the wind (more like a wing) and hung it closer to the ground.

I enjoy the international links. I'd love to visit some of the folks like skip someday. On a good day Scouting feels like a calling, on a bad day there are better things to do with my time but then I get sucked in my some scout that needs me and get all those positive vibes. My own sons have now aged out of the program after pretty good 'careers' I was pretty happy to be around to see a side of them I did not know existed. I now have to figure out the best place to put my energies in my (or a nearby) Troop. I also need to tend to the knitting at home with my 'Scout Widow' wife. If she wants to start up couples ball room dancing on Troop nights well that is that!

Good adventures! Nice job. Jealous.

3 minutes ago, Stosh said:

Heck, I remember being part of the extended Peanut Gallery watching Howdy Doody do his marionette dancing around and Clarabell the Clown talk with his bicycle horn.  And yes, Lil' Rascals were standard fare on Saturday morning well before it was taken over with cartoons.  Nyuck, Nyuck, Nyuck.

Older than me. But Lil' Rascals was well into syndication in the 1980's. 

26 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

I do not consider myself "old guard" since I have sons in the troop. Now I do consider myself "Old School" since I believe BP was the greatest SM ever, and Green Bar Bill the greatest SPL, but that  is a different story.  

Anything you say, Gramps.

5 minutes ago, Stosh said:

Yeah, I hear you on the pride issue.  But I find it easy to swallow that pride when I'm trying to help out the boys.  At least that's the self-justification I feed myself.  I do find that the older I get the easier it is to take a pass on the pride issue.  I ain't 17 anymore, it's been a while.

If its helping me on the trail or in the canoe I take the help as my wife has threatened me to take them up on it.

Our OA Lodge consults with the Seminole tribe and we try to make sure (some) of the clothes and dances are authentic. We often have representatives at ceremonies. But I have seen other lodges not treat Native American culture respectfully and I think eventually the whole thing will go away. But I have learned some fascinating things in OA (beadwork, how authentic Seminole shirts were made and how to make them) that was an enriching experience that I never would have know and I went to school with kids from the nearby reservation. 

54 minutes ago, Stosh said:

Embarrassing?  A scout who helps other people at all times?  What's wrong with you?  I practice a little "Creative Incompetence" at times to provide the opportunity for a scout to come up and say, "Mr. Stosh, you need some help with that?"  On a serious note, that's how I identify my future leaders, those that are willing to roll up their sleeves and help other people at all times.  The magic words from the scout's mouth, "What can I do to help?" is music to my ears.

I have my pride. And there are times I like to practice my own scout-craft--I want to have fun too. But YES always a good sign. The older I get the more help I accept.

7 minutes ago, Stosh said:

So much for a Scout is Trustworthy.  I'm thinking that most galas have the Red Carpet at the front door, not at the service door in the back.  But then again, I could be wrong.

I think the NPR story hints that a lot of this may lead up to a lawsuit. Certainly seems like a paper trail has been created. I suspect BSA National will be caught between being tempted to fold when being portrayed as a discriminatory bully VS preserving the Eagle Brand.

Perhaps she can be content with as an "Unofficial Eagle" but I doubt it.  When I was working at a University I knew a smart but insufferable guy who used to like to say his degree was Biology Phd ABD. That is a Phd in Biology and All But Dissertation. One of my young academic wags once heard him say it one too many times and called out "That's what we call a Master's Degree".