SSScout

Check out Bayport Scout Reservation of the Colonial Virginia Council. Jamaica Virginia. Two ocean racer yachts available for summer cruises. Scouts Age 14 and up.

Talk about appreciated contributions...

E: I agree that Scouting is really a better deal than most other activities. But that still doesn't explain why some units seem to actively choose NOT to support the bigger Scout world. FoS is the support that does that, so it would seem. And FoS is then divided into three parts, so as to approach the smaller donors and the larger donors appropriately.

Ultimately, it would seem that that is why our area is being reorganized again for the second time in less than five years. The official reason being given that it will be easier to assign a DE for the larger District that will be named. So (I am told) the present 7 Districts we have in the area will be made into 3. Our present District has about 48 Units (T,S,P,VC) and the new District may have as many as 100. It is all about money. If the DE gets the FoS, and retains membership and creates new units, then he/she is retained. If he/she is good at it, he/she is promoted. One I know, who was well liked and I thought very competant, saw the handwriting on the wall, and transferred to another Council. She has not been replaced.

Neither has the other two that have left, transferred or are otherwise not in Scouting. Our present DE is one year old (!) and still learning our ropes. But even he , in coffee hours, shakes his head and marvels at the goals he has been set. He is a retired man, is a DE more as a hobby, has no real need of the income. He is well organized, attentive and dedicated. Speaks well of his training but again shakes his head at some of the higher ups. I suspect it is because of his success in FoS (in only a little more than a year)that his District is being doubled(!).

So do your units pay their fair share? Or does the money they make "stay home"?

Camp School

Okay, so some units sell popcorn and some don't.

How do the pros get paid and the camps get taken care of and the Scouters get published?

I was just told that our District (and also several others) didn't meet the FoS goals recently. I know from talking to folks at R/T and else where that not a few units don't sell p/c and therefore don't contribute to the greater weal. Fund raise, sure, but the bucks stay home.

Here's why they don't sell p/c (anecdotal, of course):::

* We don't want to compete with the Cub Scouts, because we know that's how they make their money*

* The p/c is overpriced and folks don't buy it .*

* We don't like the hassle of the ordering/bookkeeping/storing/marketing/ etc.*

*What's the Council done for us? Why should they get a share? Doesn't FoS power the Council? Why should the p/c company get such a big share?*

* Our boys don't like the prizes. They don't see the result of their effort. Our fund raising project lets them see the results of their efforts up close*

*

Calico: Your "enforcment" point is well taken. I don't have an immediate answer to that. But I do know that

(1)there are a fair number of Units out there that do not contribute to the National or Council expenses except as they are charged for activities and dues.((and we all know the activity fees and dues rarely cover all the expense))

(2)a fair number chaff at the popcorn idea.

(3) there are organizations out here that make sure their member groups are aware of the cost of their business and what a "fair" share of that cost might be. Guilt tripping? Maybe so, but one can only ask for so much out right charity. One gives as one is led to give and as one sees the need.

Once upon a time, I remember Scout Units that held Spaghetti Dinners and such to "Send the Troop to Camp" , "Buy the Scout Ship the Boat", "Buy the Explorer Post a Trailer"

and the Scouts worked at it, grew in esprit de Troop and made friends with the community along the way.

How bout half to the Unit, a quarter to the Council and a Quarter to National?

"...any combination of camping with Scout's family, patrol or unit."

Could camping with church group be counted, if the "rustic" quality is met? How about a school class 5 day AT camp trip?

But not Webelos Week at a Council camp...?(This message has been edited by SSScout)

"He works to pay his own way..."

Girl Scouts sell Cookies.

Boy Scouts sell Popcorn.

We have both good feeling and bad about these "traditional" fundraisers. Won't go into that here.

The national organization of each has arranged these opportunities to make money for units, Councils and the National (not to mention the Trailsend and Murray Cos.). Varying shares of the profits.

How 'bout this: Give each Scout Unit an apportionment or goal. Make it calculated on the number of Scouts and Adult leaders and age (experience?) of the Unit. Let the Unit develope a project/plan for the gaining of the filthy lucre. Spaghetti dinner, carwashes, christmas trees, flag placements, 'Rent-a-Scout'. whatever. Even selling POPCORN. After expenses, Unit keeps a third, a third goes to Council, a third goes to National. Necessary paper work and accounting.

Camps are bought and maintained, salaries are paid, classes are held.

This would not replace "user fees" (camp fees, class fees, membership dues, insurance dollars, etc.)or "fundraising" (tapping corporate deep pockets).

But it might let units do local stuff and avoid the comparison of cheaper cookies/popcorn versus supporting Scouting ("I don't want to buy such expensive popcorn, but here's $20"). More better local publicity?

Give the DE and UCs another reason to come around and back pat and "attaboy" the units. Another ribbon and placque and patch?

What think thou?

Havenja ever wanted to be able to yell "RIBS!! BARBECUE RIBS!!" instead?

Think of the possibilities...

Gifts are given, not required. I always appreciated more the gifts I got from folks that I knew cared about me but that I really wasn't expecting anything from.

When the recipient is EXPECTING a gift, then you might have another problem. But gifts are given.

My only gift problem was with my mom. For the longest time, she would "shotgun" me at christmas and birthday. Even into my adult years. I finally sat her down and asked about her need to give me many gifts, some small, some expensive, but many. She said it was important to her that I like her gift, so out of many, perhaps I would like at least ONE of them... I had to gently remind her that I would love anything she might give me. She seemed genuinely surprised when I told her that I best loved the handmade Christmas ornaments she used to give out. The absolute number of gifts on an occasion declined, but 'two' seemed the regular number for a long time.

My favorite Scout thing? Our Troop staged it's own summer camp for several years on "the property" (see other thread). It was named "Camp Freedom". We received a handmade wood cookie dangle with "C F " wood burned into the disc. I have three, tucked away.

Give with your heart and it will be received by his.

Yeah, funny in a sort of Road Runner / Coyote sort of way.

But that's cartoon, and this is too close to real life. I give it a "two".

Check out Roy Sullivan, National Park Ranger at Shennandoah National Park. Struck by lightning 7 times.

What was he doing wrong? Or right??

(((Seseme Street Meets Broadway))))

(Vamp up and under)

" EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEK - Lahoma , where the wind comes sweepin' down the plain...."

NO, no, no, now try it again...

(Vamp up and under)

"IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIK - Lahoma , where the wind comes sweepin' down the plains, and the wavin' wheat..."

usw.

Dan: 10-4 good buddy. I meant "good" as in G^O^O^D not in GvOvOvD.

25 miles under full pack isn't impossible, it just ain't very nice.

How many commandments?

http://www.downes.ca/post/113

Or is it eleven?

Or 613?(This message has been edited by SSScout)

"...and from what I know none of us have gone backpacking before."

Be congratulated for your self honesty. Many have said "oh, piece of cake" and ended up on the front page of B section, extolling the virtues of our state park service rangers.

Listen to Uncle Calico. He knows of what he speaks. Do not do the BIG trip first. Work up and feel good about your experience on the LITTLE trip first. 25 or 30 miles a day under pack is a GOOD days hike.

I like Calicos 3day plan. Another consideration would be to find a park campsite for a base (and in July, you will need advance reservations) and hike out for the day to see the various sights around the area.

Condition and practice. Break in those shoes AND those muscles that haven't been used IN THAT WAY before. You will end up liking each other better afterwards. (you and your muscles, AND you and your friends).

Could always buy a campground, or (check with the Council) equip a campsite. Masons and Shriners are very good at fund raising. Find a need in the Council and let them know.

Could the District CSDC use some adult volunteers?

York or Scot?

Vicki: Thank you for saying it right. Vertical and horizontal. I like that. May I use that the next time I present "Scout's Own" at the IOLS?

After all, many (most?) other Scout orgs around the world make no Law Point about "religion".

Only on Scouter...

The connection between accectance of our Religious Diversity and Batter Dipped French Fries...

My last year as Cubmaster, I had to take down a large Cherry tree in my yard. I announced the same to our Roundtable. More than a few SMs and CMs contacted me for the wood. I chainsawed off a number of "cookies" about 12 inches in diameter. They made excellent placques. I made three for the last AoL Cubs from my PAck. The cookies had a nice split in them, so I drilled an appropriately angled hole (that arrow sure hit hard!)and after I sanded them down smooth, I inserted an arrow stub. Some wood burning of names and words and a glued on Webelos symbol from the Scout Shop and I had three nice placques for our Packs last Webelos Scouts. Don't forget the hanger or routed groove in the back for hanging!

The accepting SMs awarded the new Scouts their Handbook, new necker slide and red loops.

I think next to religion, food elicits just about the most discussion.

Yep, I've heard of glop cooking. All goes in the same mouth, right?

When I want to gross out my family, I tell them (again!) the story of the surgery on my jaw of some years ago. I had to have my jaws WIRED SHUT for 3 months. Only a half inch gap for food and drink. No chewing. I used a blender to pre-masticate my sustinance. I drank my thanksgiving dinner. A little milk, mashed potatoes, turkey, gravy, "puree", and yum. Thanksgiving milk shake.

Make the cheeseburger, lettuce and tomatoe, ketchup, cut into small pieces, into the blender, a cup of ice tea, let 'er rip. sip and gulp.

Bon Apetit.

So?

Yep, read the fine print.

Belt Loops and Pins CAN be earned more than once, and the Pack does the Cub a diservice, I feel, if they can't award them when earned.

I have seen Cubs wear a belt over their shoulder, bandolier style, to accommodate all their BLs!

Now, although the Manual doesn't stipulate, I feel it is reasonable to limit the BL to once a year, but the Alpha Cub can do alot each year!

Frinstance: Tiger to Web 2: 5 years. Attend Cub Scout Day Camp each summer, earn the Archery BL automatically each year, at least 4 BLs (maybe the W2 bridges over and doesn't do CSDC the last year?). The Archery Pin takes a little more effort (at our CSDC, you come in at 6am and do all the extra stuff).

Same with each Sport. Cub can earn a BL each season. Learn alittle more each year, work up to the Sport Pin.

Hey, didn't we already discuss this.... "repelling" as in "keeping people away from Scouting"? I know the topic has come up in various guises before. I just know it has...

;>)

I guess I've always been suspect of the "too easy". There's always a 'cost'. Extra weight, poor nutrition, extra trash (carry in, carry out), pollution, "leave a trace". Now possible toxic left overs? Leaching plastizicers? Shades OF Bhopal? Mercury in swordfish? Tuna?

Well, I still fall back on the traditional. If you don't wish to carry in the cast iron pan and the Coleman stove ( J.C. Higgins in my case)... Site search "Courageous Cookery" and let the complaints begin...

My favorite story about Religious awards:

I was at a more 'formal' Scout event. I came across a Boy Scout who had a pocketflap full of dangles.. On closer examination, he wore the "God And Country", "Ad Altere Dei" and the"Ner Tamid".

When I asked him about this overt display of Diversity, he told me his Troop was sponsored by a Methodist Church, his dad was Catholic and his mom Jewish. He said he liked doing the comparisons.

I suppose when he becomes an adult Scouter, he could wear 3 blue and silver knots.

YiS&C

BSA is, by definition and example, a discriminatory organization. As are many others.

The Scout Unit sponsoring organization has ultimate say as to who can belong to their unit.. This is why some Houses of Faith declare that only boys of their faith may join their Scout Unit (see corresponding thread). This is ultimately why Public Schools may not sponsor Scout Units. If the Public School said that they would allow declared athiests to belong, that would be counter to the BSA definition, hence the sponsoring PS would be in violation of BSA requirements.

However, as with any well behaved public organization, the BSA unit should be allowed the same access to rent the all-purpose room, use the atheletic field, etc. as any other. That is how nascent Baptist churches and Cub Packs and Ethical Societies and Cheer Leading Camps and Fight Cancer Societies utilize the schools around my home.

And that is how the Scout units in my area put up "Join Scouting Night" posters on the school hall walls and Troop and Crew fliers on the "take one" tables. Equal Access. 'Course, it had to be proven in the District Court, but that's the "American Way".

So a boy/parent can learn about the Soccer league or the breast cancer awareness walk, or the Scout Troop, or the book sale or the ice hockey clinic. Just peruse the literature rack outside the school office.

As it happened, the facilitator of our class, an otherwise wonderful person, had no inkling as to the "correct" answer to this conundrum (asked by a participant, evidently from experience). ((NB: correct vs legal?)) We talked about it longer than any other question. The group consensus seemed to be more on the lines of "that's terrible, how can they do that, the boy/parents should be able to join any Troop they want, etc."

Bob Whites answer was suggested by one, but not many liked that. I mentioned the mono-faith Troops I had met at the Jamboree.

In our 'diverse desire' soaked group, it seemed unnatural to just deny membership out of hand like that. But I feel, as B/W states, that the CO has the legal right to limit it's units' membership.

But is that 'right'? The reasoning intuited by the group seemed to come round to , well, if the boy isn't "faith A", knowing their attitude, why would he want to join? He'd feel left out, he might end up thinking he's being "proselytized" unfairly.

But on the other hand, the "A" folks might not want their boys exposed to an "unwashed" type, even if the boys are friends in school.

So we seek "diversity" and making the Scout program available to every type of social group (religious/economic/physical ability/language/race/education/fill in the blank), but in the real world, it gets messy.

How 'bout helping that boy and his folks start their own Troop?