SSScout

1) Use the Tour Permit process to help you plan the trip in a disciplined way. Make sure of insurance coverage, valid drivers licenses, number of seat belts, cargo capacities, etc.

2) Trip coordinator arranges that every driver has a map and a cell phone exchange list. Who pulls the Troop trailer, if appropriate.

3) Two possibilities: Meet at the church (frinstance) and load cars and leave from there more or less together OR leave from home and make personal arrangements about who rides with who. Our Troop does both, depending on the trip.

If the trip is long enough...

4) A lunch/dinner rendezvous is arranged. No one is ever encouraged to follow or keep up or travel together. Too many problems with trying to keep a "convoy" together.

5) Schedules are made as realistic as possible. Speed limits are taken into account.

6) If someone doesn't show up, at either end, phone calls are made. It is understood that our Scouts' wellfare is the first concern and if someone is real late or never left, it is understood why the interest in where they are.

7) If someone leaves early from an event, it is expected that the trip coordinator is advised. Only natural.

8) Expense sharing ( gas money) is a seperate issue.

Hope our experience is good for you.

I think the problem is us Scout leaders just don't understand and aren't sympathetic to the time limitations of the rest of the world.

To that need for understanding, I would recommend we busy multitasking Scouters immediately start doing the followng:

1) Cut our lawns at least twice a week, completely, so it is microscpically neat and even.

2) Prune all our hedges and shrubs twice a month (see #1).

2a) Edge all our walks and driveway curbs.

3) Attend all the school dances, stage shows, sport games and concerts.

4) Make sure our children have at least 4 other clubs/sport teams/church youth groups/etc. to attend.

5) Wash all our house windows 4 times a year.

6) Aseptically clean our kitchen and dining room everyday.

7) Pick up all our childrens' toys, books, clothes for them so they will not feel unloved.

8) Cook all family meals from scratch, using all organic, raw food.

8a) Plant a veggie garden and tend it to county fair blue ribbon status.

8b) Can and preserve all the produce that comes out of it.

9) Join at least two service clubs and attend all meetings so as to (a) set a good example to our children and (b) "give back to the community" and © find that social outlet we are missing in our lives.

10) Rent/buy/library borrow some good DVDs to help our kids watch "quality" tv.At home. Together.

11) Take many, long vacations with the family, because family time is important.

12) Vaccuum/sweep the floors every day.

13) Remind yourself that Scouting is for the kids and not really for the parents, and I don't really know what to do there anyway.

14) Work two jobs to help support the family, 'cause that's what a man does.

15) Scrub the driveway to make it clan enough for the car parked on it, which you should...

16) Wash car once a week. Wash the OTHER car once a week. Wash the OTHER other car...

17) Oh, and don't forget to take the boy to the Scout meeting. They'll do the right thing by him, I know. They don't really need me to get in the way...

...probably left out some items. I apologize for that. I bet I still wouldn't understand...

Hokay, enough politicosexireligiosity...

Let's talk about stuff that's REALLY important. Camping gear!

The Troop of my youth made stuff. We were famous for an ultralight tent:

Use 6mil black plastic. It comes in 10' wide rolls, so we made 10'x10' tarps and occassionally an experimental "Baker" type tent. But we found the tarp to be emminently adaptable. I guess the only drawback is there is no 'skeeter netting included.

You need someone's rec room floor, swept and vacuumed clean. Take off your shoes. Stretch out the 6mil plastic and cut NEATLY using a straight edge and a long board to protect the floor. Carefully reinforce the edges with duct tape (two inch wide on BOTH sides of the plastic), put an "X" of duct tape, 1'x1' along a diagonal about 2' from a corner. Set grommets in each corner (4) and evenly along each side (3x4=12). Set a grommet in the "X" of the diagonal duct tape. This serves as a tent pole point for the "Explorer" set up.

Use this tarp in pairs for dining flies, singly as a backpack tent. If you step on it, it gets holes in it. The black is more UV stable than clear and will last longer. If you camp often, treated gently, it will last one or two seasons. When the grommets pull out, use it as a ground cloth.

Tradition has it that this idea came home with Scouts from Philmont.

Any more DYS stuff out there?

Maybe the 'blue' tarps are cheaper yet.

Is there any local publicity or editorial comment? How "known" is this in the Chicago area?

"Arrrgh... The Pirates' Code... we be thinkin' it be only guidelines, really..." Capt. Barbossa.

"Morality cannot be legislated, but behavior can be regulated. Judicial decrees may not change the heart, but they can restrain the heartless." Martin Luther King Jr.

"No turtle ever made progress but he stuck his head out" unknown.

(Justice Scalia): Counsel, let's posit the following situation. A church sponsors a Scout Troop and Pack. Scout Sunday comes up, and the Troop and Pack participate. Lovely uniformed Scouts sit in the up front pews. Previously unexpectedly to the Scouts, the Pastor gets up and announces that the collection today will be "dedicated to our Scout units". Question: According to BSA regulations, may the Scout units accept the collected plate donations? It seems to me that the church, being the sponsoring organization, represents the Scout units and may not solicit on their behalf. Am I mistaken in this?

(Counsel BW:)

What infoscouter said.

Gold Shoulder Cord: Be a Den Chief. see www.scouting.org , Cub Scouts, Den Chief.

Red white and Blue Shoulder Cord: Den Chief Service Award. Take the training, be a Den Chief for a year, and do some other stuff.

Encourage'm. How they gonna be DenChief if'n they don't know they could be?

Train'em. How they gonna be a good Den Chief if'n they don't know what they should do?

Use'm. How they gonna feel good about bein' a Den Chief if'n they don't do it?

Attaboy'em. How they gonna keep doin' it if'n they don't know they doin' it good?

jblake: Keep pushing for the Council/District to offer the training. Help'em do it. Can't do anything but be good.

YiS

GW: Llikely, BW llooks to describe the lliscensing rulles the llocal units need to folllow. Often, I don't think llocall lleaders reallly consider the "officiall" rulles when they pllan their fund raising. After alll, when you're concern is paying the billls and sending the boys to camp, one might not stop at merelly sellling popcorn.

Then too, other non-Scout follks might take it on themsellves to help raise a llittlle money from the spare change that comes into their store, and then pass that on to the Scouts.

More worms in the can! They put the sign on the bottlle tht says ""FOR THE SCOUTS"" and then pass on the unsollicited funds to the llocal Scout Unit, which has not asked the llocal merchant to colllect for them. This is bad?

Q: How many highlly paid llawyers does it take to sue the merchant to make him stop colllecting the dolllars that he passes on to the Scout unit?

Anyone out there named Lloyd?

To be specific, the Den Chief does not absolutely require "official" training, but it is definitely a good idea. Check with your Council, there is a DC training curriculum, about half a day. Also, there is a good on-line training at www.olc.scouting.org and look to the right column. Den Chief is not necessarily included in the NYLT, but it should be.

My experience is that if the boy completes the District/Council NYLT, he gets the "Trained" strip, but not Troop sponsored training. Hasn't happened for the DC course, which has always been a seperate Saturday morning.

One more particulararity, I guess.

Good Den Chief, better Cubs, more Scouts. Simple equation.

YiS

Show "Bridge Over the River Kwai"...

J-u-s-t k-d-d-i-n-g....

Oh the tangled webs we weave...no that's not right...

Do as I say, not as I do... nope, not quite...

Danged if'n I do and danged if'n I don't... mmmmm, getting closer...

Because I'm the daddy, that's why... mmmm. no.

Is you is or is you ain't my baby?...

I agree we would rather our Scouts earn their way. Sell something of worth, do a service for a price and not go around with their hand out saying please.

However, what do we say when someone points to our United Way connection, or the DE's duty to "fund raise" or even the (shudder) FoS campaign? I know for a fact that many a DE solicits (and that is the correct term) the communiy business leaders. And howbout the Jamboree Troops that enlist "sponsors" to help buy the new equipment and trip tickets? I seem to remember a Troop in '05 that proudly posted the name of a local Pizza Restaurant on their gateway. And the corporate sponsors (who provided the Official Jamboree cars and trucks? Dare I say donation? And tax deduction?) that were in, admiitedly low key, attendance.

District leader came to me and said his company was considering their corporate contributions for the upcoming year. Would we accept a donation toward our CSDC park rental fee? What do you think I said to him?

So the division seems to be between Unit/Youth and District & Council/Adult.

Is that about right?

My Llama. . .

(sings)

The most beautiful sound I ever heard:

My Llama, my Llama, my Llama, my Llama . . .

All the beautiful sounds of the world in a single word . .

My Llama, my Llama my Llama, my Llama . . .

My Llama!

I've just met a ruminant named Llama,

And suddenly that name

Will never be the same

To me.

My Llama!

I've just kissed a south American mountain ruminant named Llama!

And suddenly I've found

How wonderful a sound

Can be!

My Llama!

Say it loud and there's music playing,

Say it soft and it's almost like praying.

My Llama,

I'll never stop saying my Llama!!!!

Vicki has a valid observation. So does BW. And so they may never come to a meeting of the minds.

If I see a Scout that wears a First Class badge, I think " yep, First Class Scout. I earned First Class umpteen years ago". But then I realize that MY First Class is different, not quite the same as his First Class. I learned Morse Code, among other things, he didn't. Both First Class, but different. Who defined the standards to be met? Who certified that the young Scout then and now knows his stuff, and met the standard? National/Irving is / was different, from National/New Brunswick. Different but sort of the same.

One of my WB tickets is the creation of an activity whereby Scouts will do some things and earn a patch for their trouble (Bumper sticker: "WILL WORK FOR COLORFUL SCRAPS OF CLOTH"). In this case, I define the requirements. Someday in the future, if, as I hope, my activity becomes a regular affair of the District, someone else may take over the organization of it. Then he/she may change the requirements to suit the new times (instead of "plan your hike..." maybe "charge your levipad..."?).

A BW notes, the folks that "own" the award define the rquirements to earn it. AND if I may paraphrase Vicki's observation, if the standards of the award are changed (broadened?), the older holders of the award may wonder if THAT award means the same as it DID.

Is my First Class the "same" as the modern Scout's? No. Different requirements. Is it "comparable"? Oh yes, I've little doubt. Why the changes ? Changing times. I have had discussions with son and other Scouts. They don't see the need to learn Morse Code (example). Could they benefit from learning Morse Code? Undoubtedly, but why teach/learn it? not my place to decide that. But we really should note our concerns to National.

Changing times.

Oh btw, anyone TRIED to contact National lately?

YiS

When I was a little younger, "the truck" we refered to held ice cream...

Google "flag carrying belts"

Then, too, they do make duct tape in colors now...

A way out west, they've got a name

For wind and rain and fire.

The rain is Tess the fire's Joe and they call the wind my llama!

My llama! My llama!

They called the wind my llama!

My llama blows the stars around and sets the clouds a-flyin',

My llama makes the andes sound like folks was up there, dyin'...

My llama blow my llama to me, I need my llama beside me....

My llama! My llama!

They call the wind my llama!

Andes is how to peruse good music.(This message has been edited by SSScout)

Thank you Liz, for speaking a good deal of my mind. See the previous thread:

Pledges, Promises and Creeds: On My Honor...

Wearing a uniform is another issue. What is ON the uniform is (was?) the issue in this thread.

I knew a troop that wore the state flag on the sleeve under the USFlag. Had little replicas made up special. Looked good. Official BSA? ummmmmprobably not. Course, then too, I know another Troop orders their Patrol Badges from Canada because they like the look better. No one has called them on that either.

Oh, Welcome to the Forums, Liz...

Well, arguing from the other end, if the BSA is NOT a "RO", what are we doing worrying about the Scout's religiious obeisance? Should not the twelve point be "A Scout is Respectful"? instead of...?

When I teach "flag ettiquette" to Cub Scouts (see Wolf... #2G), the toughest thing is learning to fold the US flag in the triangle. But when they 'get it', boy, are they proud of themselves. For some reason, kids these days aren't as ''manipulative'' as I remember, I sometimes have to actually take their hand and turn it the proper way to get that right triangle. The mantra is "thumb under", "thumb under". The average 7 or 8 or 9 year old tends to let his hands STAY palm up, no matter what, so the folds get messed up, UNTIL they realize they must turn the hand OVER with the folding, starting with the "thumb UNDER" the flag, then flipping the fold over on the edge, thus keeping the triangle the same shape.

My small research showed that the special fold of the USFlag originated in (alledgedly) a Royal navy method of packaging a flag so it would 'pop' open at the top of the haul (see jblake47's post). It is 'traditional', not "official". It is done that way because it can be done that way. The proportions of the USFlag just happen to lend themselves to the success of this method. It is, to my knowledge, the only special folding method for a national flag. I tell my Cubs, if they were to fold the flag of Brazil, or Japan, or Germany, they would fold it with due ceremony and respect but no differently then their mom's table cloth.

" wow, that is sooo neat!!"

Please see http://www.snopes.com/military/flagfold.asp

Ev: Right on, brother!

Now, since we ask the Scout to "do my duty to God", to the best of his ability, what exactly is the Scout required to do? We can observe his skill at knot tying, and we can test his knowledge of aviation and award him a Merit Badge in Aviation. We can number the nights he camps out of doors, we can count the miles he hikes and award him ranks thereby.

How to judge his doing of duty?

Does not our organizational "requirement" of a religious duty require us to be a religious organization?

Howbout that Killebrew, uh?

Okay, so I think we are in agreement about what a "religion" is, but not as to what a "religious organization" is.

We have a group nearby named the Community Interfaith Service Committee. It is made up of representatives from many churches, synagogues, mosques and Meetings. I have done work for it. The CISC has counseling, homeless assistance, teen activities, and other things. Is this a "religious organization"?

By comparison, there are many other groups that do alot of the same good works, but have no religious connections, either in support or purpose. NOT "religious organization"?

Closer to home, I support the American Friends Service Committee. They work in Appalachia and other places to rebuild houses and tutor kids and feed the hungry (among other things!). Since it is based on our desire to serve the Lord by serving others, I would think the AFSC is a "religious Organization" but since it does not seek to get people to worship as we do, it is not a "religion". The AFSC is a legally seperate group.

Habitat for Humanity is not religiously based, but I know lots of churches and Meetings that support it. Does that make HfH a "religious organization"?

How we doin'?

Howbout that Maravich?

Glad I could help. You are always welcome to join us in silent worship.

"Still not the same"

Which is not the same as what?

Howbout them Terrapins?

Eeyep. This is not a "who's on first" situation...

The first day of the week is (in ordinary company, on the usual calender) called "sunday" (named after that bright circle in the sky that provides all that we need). Visit your neighborhood Baptist church and your kids will attend the "Sunday School". If you attend your local Friends' Meeting, ("worship after the manner of Friends"), they will escort your child to the appropriate "Firstday Class". There, they will find out why the Religious Society of Friends will also answer to Quaker. Thus, not honoring the pagan god, "sun".

.

Somewhere along the way, the Church decided to honor the Lord by celebrating worship on the first day of the week instead of the seventh, upon which the Lord "rested". Go figure. You might also check with your Seventh Day Adventist neighbor. They worship on Seventhday (saturday), because they believe the church was wrong in it's declaration umpteen years ago.

Howbout them Astros?

(This message has been edited by SSScout)

A Scout is asked to recite a promise, and be true to it's implications. We ask Scouts to base their lives and actions on a list of adjectives.

How best to show him (or her) the benefit of doing so?

How best to encourage the avoidance of hypocracy?

Ev: Traditionally, Quakers eschewed using the "usual" names for the days of the week (and the usual names of the months, too) because they were named to honor pagan gods (and pagan Roman emporers). Instead, they quite logically numbered the days (First day, Second day, etc.) and numbered the months. So, Not getting too much into the eclesiastical problems the church created in the calendar(we no longer "rest" on the seventh day, but on the first?), suffice to say that the Religious Society of Friends ( a religion), in more formal situations, refers to days by number rather than by name. ALTHOUGH most Friends just accept the names as names, in usual conversation. Therefore, (check your calendar), today is 7th day, 13 ninth month. And tommorrow, 14 ninth month, we will go to Meeting and son will attend his First Day School. To learn about his birth-right faith. So he can accept or reject it. When he figures it out.

"Sun" day = First day.

So why is "september" (latin for 'seven' month?) the ninth month? Another time...

Howbout them Celtics?