SSScout

BSA is, by definition and example, a discriminatory organization. As are many others.

The Scout Unit sponsoring organization has ultimate say as to who can belong to their unit.. This is why some Houses of Faith declare that only boys of their faith may join their Scout Unit (see corresponding thread). This is ultimately why Public Schools may not sponsor Scout Units. If the Public School said that they would allow declared athiests to belong, that would be counter to the BSA definition, hence the sponsoring PS would be in violation of BSA requirements.

However, as with any well behaved public organization, the BSA unit should be allowed the same access to rent the all-purpose room, use the atheletic field, etc. as any other. That is how nascent Baptist churches and Cub Packs and Ethical Societies and Cheer Leading Camps and Fight Cancer Societies utilize the schools around my home.

And that is how the Scout units in my area put up "Join Scouting Night" posters on the school hall walls and Troop and Crew fliers on the "take one" tables. Equal Access. 'Course, it had to be proven in the District Court, but that's the "American Way".

So a boy/parent can learn about the Soccer league or the breast cancer awareness walk, or the Scout Troop, or the book sale or the ice hockey clinic. Just peruse the literature rack outside the school office.

As it happened, the facilitator of our class, an otherwise wonderful person, had no inkling as to the "correct" answer to this conundrum (asked by a participant, evidently from experience). ((NB: correct vs legal?)) We talked about it longer than any other question. The group consensus seemed to be more on the lines of "that's terrible, how can they do that, the boy/parents should be able to join any Troop they want, etc."

Bob Whites answer was suggested by one, but not many liked that. I mentioned the mono-faith Troops I had met at the Jamboree.

In our 'diverse desire' soaked group, it seemed unnatural to just deny membership out of hand like that. But I feel, as B/W states, that the CO has the legal right to limit it's units' membership.

But is that 'right'? The reasoning intuited by the group seemed to come round to , well, if the boy isn't "faith A", knowing their attitude, why would he want to join? He'd feel left out, he might end up thinking he's being "proselytized" unfairly.

But on the other hand, the "A" folks might not want their boys exposed to an "unwashed" type, even if the boys are friends in school.

So we seek "diversity" and making the Scout program available to every type of social group (religious/economic/physical ability/language/race/education/fill in the blank), but in the real world, it gets messy.

How 'bout helping that boy and his folks start their own Troop?

? Goldwings have hub caps? ;>)

The Scene: Commissioner College Class on Diversity.

The Situation posited: A boy applies to join a Scout Troop because some of his school buddies are members and have invited him. The Troop is sponsored ("chartered") by religious organization "A", a fairly major faith in the community. Troop leadership tells the boy and his parents that they will not accept him because he, the Scout Applicant, is not of their faith. They think he would be better served to join the Troop sonsored by Religious Organization "B". Turns out Scout is of faith "C" , which is not represented in the local Scout Charter Orgs.

What do you do/recommend as the assigned Unit Commissioner for Troop "A", if anything? What, if anything, would you say to the boy and his family?

Mmmmm?

((NB: this was meant to be a spin off of "Religious Awards"==Cub scout ))(This message has been edited by SSScout)

wmjivey: I am of the opinion that the Den meeting should be for Scout stuff. If the boys in the Den (and their parents) agree to work on their Religious Awards together, that's great, but it should not be in the context of a Scout meeting. To do so would discriminate against any Cubs not of that faith, and frankly, I do not see how multiple faiths can work on their own awards together.

I have been told that Scouting is "religious" but not a "religion". The multiplicity of religious representation in the average Pack or Troop is certainly an advantage to my mind. If the Den in question is truly mono-faith, then take the boys after the Den Meeting and do the Faith thing, but one MUST be sensitive to any who chooses , for what ever reason, not to join the Award class. You may lose a boy to Scouting by such action. Is that what you want?

Den Zero has my vote. Areeely small pack might operate as one Den, and go every where as a bunch, but you, Base, have got at least two Dens. Take the Tigers and their partners and "Go See It". Don't talk disparagingly of the other folks in the Pack, just set a good example. And when you come back to the Pack meeting and talk about the fun ya'll had, see if things don't change a little.

Thank you,jschlich, for your steadfastness. It has been asked before, but I will ask again:

Is there anything an "outsider" can do to help? Amicus Curiae letter, that sort of thing? A small check? (!) a large check?

YiS

Since it is generally agreed among Pinewoodies that the critical part of the racer is/are the wheels and axles, make sure that one of the Pack/District rules is that "only official BSA PWkit Wheels and Axles are allowed". This can be easily attested to by close inspection. The axles can be polished and trued and the wheels smoothed to a certain extent, but other wheels and axles should be verboten.

Who does the polishing and trueing would be hard to prove, so "Scouts Honor", the car was made by Cub and Parent hands...

Recipe from my Turkish college housemate, Raffi Karahisar, wherever he is (mousaka to be willing to wait for):

In a pot sufficiently large: (experience reveals allow for about twice the volume): How many cups do you want to make?

That number of cups of cold water plus one.

That number of heaping table spoons of coarse ground coffee (Maxwell House will do) plus one.

That number of tablespoons of sugar, plus one. Stir once.

Put on stove/fire and bring to a rolling boil. Boil for one more minute.

Immediately pour into cups.

Let sit for one minute.

Drink hot, (but not the last half inch of mud!).

Do not reuse grounds. Spread on garden for compost.

Raffi had an excellent command of english but had a hard time understanding folks from Baustun. eyuh.

Wow. Thank you. Carry on, Anneinmpls. GSUSA indeed. I enjoy being educated, actually, then I can speak intelligently about something, rather than merely pretending.

"ignorance is only skin deep but stupidity goes right down to the bone".

Is there a GSA "Irving"? Do they have any say in this? I'm not complaining, I think it's great, I just havta play What If...

And if a BSA Troop decided to use the 'traditional' GSA model, what WOULD Irving say? Or do? Or are there BSA Troops that already DO use the 'traditional GSA model, and maybe don't realize it?

Ummmm?

Well, there you go. Mars vs Venus. Get 'er done vs work thru a story. Larn how it works vs play thru a theme.

Anne, sounds like a fun day (fire, sharp stuff, and dirt and plants. Nothingwrong with them.) Search the forums for "Whitlin' Chip" (the Cub Scout knife safety badge) and "Totin' Chip" (the Boy Scout knife, axe and saw safety badge) and you'll see the collected experience of many people. Which brings up another point:

Why limit it to pocket knives? If the girls are old enough, (age 6 to 15? quite a range, but neat for the big sisters to help the younger ones), can you bring in safe knife use in the kitchen (big cooking knives are a bit different than a folding pocket/case/jack knife but you still need good technique for safe, efficient use), and (maybe this is not included in GSA progrm) hand axe use?

And as has been mentioned, soap carving is a fun thing and a good souvenir to take home (clean too!) Buy Ivory "personal" size or bigger. Since you would need many bars of soap, maybe KMart or another retailer will give you a price cut if you mention GSA. Never hurts to ask.

Sailors use knives, too. Marlin Spike use?

Combine knife and knots. Cut ropes to proper length and tie'em together to rescue something? Throw across "gorge"?

2x4 balance beam across the "gorge"? Indiana Jackie rescues the Lost Cookie Bowl?

Dah-dee-deedee--dah-dee-dah, (etc).

MiF KiS YiS

*sigh*

"Alright, ya'll have a safe trip home. Eagles, you're putting the tables away tonite,right? Oh Tommy, can I see you a

minute?"

"Yes, Mr. Smith?"

"How'd you think the meeting went tonite?"

"Well .. ((insert stuff))"

"Okay. We'll have to talk about that at the PLC next time, huh?"

"Yeah, guess so. Can I go now, my dads waiting."

"Sure, good job tonite, Tommy. Pete, you got a better than average Scout there."

"Oh,yeah, sometimes I even think so, Ken. G'nite."

"G'nite."

((sound of lock turning))

And the problem is...?

Well, there's art and there's ART...

I always thought a master carpenter or mason created art...

I think Req. #1 means to think about materials and tools: Clay, paint, marble, paper, pencils, charcoal, glue, magazine pictures (think collage), cloth, crayons, chalk, speedball pen nibs, brushes, tile, dirt...etc. etc. usw.... are there any limits? Anything that cannot be used? Think Christo...

And I second Lisabob. Go to the library and find some books of pictures by the masters, Durer, DaVinci, Heinrich Kley,even Rockwell.

Look for the "Golden Rectangle" and other shapes in the overall composition.

Have fun.

I remember seeing such a patch in our Scout Shop (NCAC) maybe a few months ago. You might ask your shop to call some of the others, they might have the phone numbers in the back office

Well, I called and the NCAC Scout Shop says they have 2 types. Call'em, they can arrange to mail'em, they said. 301.564.1091

Good Scouting to you.

I've seen really impressive candle use in Cub Scout ceremonies.Utilize the older Webeloes in the ceremony. Bare Bones::

Turn the lights off....

One boy reads the Cub Scout promise slowly, LOUDLY, as three candles (blue?) are lit by the (white?)"Scout Spirit" candle:

1)I promise to do my best

2) to do my duty to God and my Country

3) And to obey the Law of the Pack.

Then four candles are lit (red?), again by the "Scout Spirit" candle,

as a Cub reads, slowly , LOUDLY, the Law of the Pack:

1)A Cub Scout follows Akela

2) A Cub Scout makes the Pack go

3) The Pack helps the Cub Scout grow

4) The Cub Scout gives good will.

Each time a candle is lit, a pause can occur, during which a SHORT sentence can be read by the Cub Master explaining what that part means.

And then as each Rank is presented, another candle is lit in front of, beside, behind (take your pick) a small rank poster. Speak of rank advancement.

Logs, drilled to fit candles, Don't use real tall tapers, they lean and fall over and look insubstantial. Cut the candles about 8" tall at most. Make sure the wicks are UP and READY to light before things start.

Three candles.... five candles.... four candles...

One long candalabra or three seperate ones.

Let'em burn thru the cermony. (turn the lights up)

Good Scouting to you

Hear hear...

Make sure you have "Classes" for racing, such as:

*Cub made

*Siblings

*Adult Unlimited

*Experimental

All should be well defined as to Formula Limitations (dimensions, weight, axle and wheel origin and treatment, etc. ). Check the instructions in the box and/or check with District so the boys can qualify in your Pack and in District.

Also,make sure you have "extra" awards (not just fast, faster, fastest) and judges thereby, such as:

*most colorful

*Most Scouty

*Realistic

*Funny

etc. , the goal being that every boy can come away with a prize, especially in a small Pack like yours. These can even be made up as the opportunity presents itself on the day of the race.

Let the Adults duke it out in the parking lot (nah, just kidding).

Then, when you get the BatMobile, or an Adult made block of wood with a bolt glued to it, you can deal with them fairly...

KiS MiF YiS

After serving as an Archery RO and Shooting Sports "Consultant", I agree with Oak Tree. But that is only like a "posted speed limit", the guidelines are "ideal" situation limits. Further, if you can, you want a bank of dirt or hillside behind the targets, put and aim your range AWAY from the main traffic routes and areas, and rope/caution tape off the area with TWO warning tapes about 10 or more feet apart.If you can arrange it.

And keep your range workers alert to "tourists" who 1)resent being told they can't walk/run wherever they want or 2)want to get closer to "see the action" or 3)want to watch Grandson Johnny "hit the bullseye" or4) have ADHD issues and can't/won't read warning signs (both young and old) or 5) want to see that rare poison ivy/linden/squirrel/track/. Whoo boy...

KiS MiF YiS

There once was an Hindu Holy man. He was famous for his mastery of yoga and other esoteric spiritual practices. However, as with all flesh, he had a few, shall we say, weaknesses. For one, he loved Italian food. Especially garlic stuff. The garlic was never strong enough for him. Also, he found marathon running to be an excellent mental discipline. He could peel off 20 or 30 kilometers every day without a problem. Wore out many pairs of shoes. Developed prodigeous blisters. Of course, he had no problem "carbo" loading. Just more garlicy Italian food. But as is true with many such Yogis, his hygiene was not the best. Never brushed his teeth . So his breath was really outstanding, in the bad sense of the term. And so his health declined from poor nutrition and poor hygiene. In fact, the University of Hyderabad used him as a study piece. They found him to be an excellent example of a superbly calloused fragile mystic expert in halitosis.

Anyone remember when a Cub Scout was asked to promise to "be square"?...and THEN obey the Law of the Pack?

Good googamooka... Look at the latest "Scouter"

The middle has a program help about Lashing Contests. And creating a DRAW BRIDGE!!

suspension bridges...

Cable stay bridges...

Dymaxion tensegrity structures...

Buckminster the Cable Guy, we need you...

OOps...

I meant Kelty, not Kelly.

Surprised no one caught me on that.

Then we can talk about pack boards, diamond hitches, commando packs, Alis packs, Haversacks, rucksacks, blackdiamond packs, pack baskets of the Adirondacks, Yuccapacks, aluminum, bamboo, internal, external, yadda yadda yadda.

I will assume your pack frame has a 'Hip Belt'.

Get that fitted to your boy first. It should sit on his hip bones, not around his stomach. NOTHING should be on the boys pants belt. Not cell phone or money pouch or knife loop. Find a place in a pack pocket for them. The frame belt should have nothing between it and the boy's hip and not be sinched so tight as to make it hard to breath, either. The hinges that attach the belt to the frame should ideally be at the boys side, adjacent to but not on the hip bones. The belt sits on the hip bones, not the frame. When everything is fitted right, most of the weight will be carried by this belt. Make sure the buckle is such that once things are adjusted right, it can be clipped on and off easily.

Now look to the shoulder straps. Depending on the adjusting possibilities, they should rest on the boys shoulders, maybe coming from the top a little, but not up from the bottom. The neck should not be crowded. The straps should come from the frame to the shoulders as straight as possible. They may pull back a little, but as I say, the belt should carry well nigh all of the weight.

That top bar you speak of, is it adjustable up and down, perhaps? I had an REI packframe with that feature. Try to arrange things so the head doesn't have to hit that bar unnecessarily. Very annoying. My son knew that when his head started hitting the top bar on his first pack, it was time for a bigger one.

And yeah, it is for tying things to. The whole frame and pack is for tying things to. Get lots of 1/4 inch venition blind or sash cord . Just right for lashing to a pack frame.

In general, heavy things toward the top and back of the pack, lighter things to the bottom. Except if the cook kit pokes you in the back, then you gotta move it.

In the old days, (canvas and hemp and plywood)) the SOFT stuff went on the back (your back)of the pack, the HARD stuff in the pockets and outer parts. Heavy tent to the top of the pack, sleeping bag to the bottom. Things you might need on the trail in the outer pockets, stuff you need first at camp on the top.

It boils down to personal preference and comfort, not convention or advice. Experiment. Load it up and walk around. Alot. Move things, tie 'em on differently. Look at the packs of more experienced campers. Anything look better? Try that. Don't be too proud to not change.

The carrier should KNOW exactly where every item is in hi/her pack. Come night time, the flashlight/cookkit/extra dry socks are right THERE in their own baggy in that corner.

I was always told that a back pack is a bag of bags.

Oh, make plans for rain. A special cover for the pack? a rain coat or Poncho for the carrier and overall? Make the plans now. Play "what if" with your self and the other Scouts in your Troop/Pack. Such things are always personal preference.

And say thanks to Mr. Kelly.

Good camping to you .

The County Recreation Dept. uses both 'uniform' t-shirts AND neckerchiefs for their groups. If you sign up for one of their summer camp activities, for your fee you get a colorful T-shirt and a large bandana. The child is expected to wear both when the camp travels on it's field trips to the museums, etc. Makes the groups very distinctive.

If I had it to do over again, I would declare my Cub Pack would only wear the yellow necker and ignore the rank appropriate ones. Save $$$. Wear the yellow one with your tshirt or sweater, be distinctive, be a Cub Scout on a trip.

The original post made me think of a few questions, which led to the following experiment:

I froze a half dozen eggs over night. The next morning, naturally I couldn't fry or dip bread in them, but I tried boiling them. They were all cracked from the freezing, puffed out a bit. I put three in cold water and brought it to a boil. The cracked areas let out eggy stuff, so the water soon became cloudy. When the water finally boiled, I let it cook for ten minutes. Hard boiled eggs! I believe they even shelled easier than room temp eggs. I chopped them up in a bowl with shredded whole wheat toast, added some barbecue sauce, Umm-mm breakfast.

The next morning, I took the next three eggs and put them in already boiling water. The cracks let eggy stuff out into the water, but not so much. Like egg drop soup, I guess. Ten minutes later, harb doiled eggs! Chopped 'em up, chopped celery, a little onion, mayo. Toast and sonofagun breakfast again.

In my experience, about the only thing you can't salvage from being frozen on a camp trip is fresh fruit and tomatoes, and even they can be salvaged if you like popsicles. Need hot chocolate for compensation...

Bon appetit and YiS