SSScout

A bit of history , bokris: Once upon a time, a Cub Scout was a Cub Scout. After he joined, he earned the Bobcat pin. Every Cub did this, regardless of the age they joined. Then they were a "real" Cub Scout, wore the blue uniform, the yellow neckerchief (ONLY the yellow) and did Cub Scout stuff. The Den they were in was USUALLY age/school grade specific. The boy was a Cub with his buddies. I say USUALLY, because, if your Pack was small, you might be in a neighborhood Den, with other boys of differing age. Had been done that way, sometimes. Depending on his age, he would work, with his Den Leader (Den Mother!) and family on the Rank/Badge appropriate: Wolf, Bear, Lion or Webelos. Cub did not need to work on a "younger" rank, tho some were allowed to and did. Nice to have all four badges. The idea of a Den being a "Wolf" Den, or whatever, is a more modern idea. We were in "DenOne, Having Fun", and Den One (or two, or three , or four,) was the Den, not the rank. The rank was what you EARNED and was really independant of the Den appelation. As the Cub earned his rank, (some sooner than others) he received it at the next Pack meeting, with appropriate (at least we thought so)cheers and applause, the cornier the better. I remember discovering the idea of earning something by what I accomplished. Blue and Gold banquet was a special affair. I remember having one at a really nice sit down restaurant. The Dens made decorations for the tables and room. Best behavior! Grandparents in attendance! Some special awards, some special entertainment. If he did not earn the rank by the end of the year, the Cub could earn it later, even next year, and be awarded it as appropriate. Or, he could commence on the next years badge, as he and his parents decided. I had one friend of mine that had moving trouble, multiple houses in one year, and didn't earn his Bear until the next year, along with his Lion shortly after. Each Den could be, as I said, either age/grade dependant or not. The Cub did his crafty stuff and museum visits and such with his Den. The Pack was for greater recognition and bigger fun. We had a Cub softball league, our Pack fielded a team that played other Packs thru the spring and into the summer months, coached by the Pack dads. I still have several ash softball bats of that vintage (collectors, anyone?) . Yes, we met thru the summer. If someone was on vacation, well, we all heard about it when they got back. The idea of naming the "Wolf" Den, "Bear" Den and (now) Webelos 1 and 2 Dens, and making the ranks more dependant on the end of the year (if you don't earn it by June, you've lost the chance, start on the next years rank) is more modern. The emphasis, to my memory, was on the Cub Scout activity, and the rank came along automatically, it was not 'earn the rank' as a goal in and of itself. Do you see the difference here? Den 4 may be the "Wolf" Den, but the Wolf rank should be awarded as they earn it, not all at the B&G or at years end... Too much reminincing? (not enough?)(This message has been edited by SSScout)

announcements, Announcements, ANNOOOUUNNCEMENTS,....

The thread about the hectograph (which, as luck would have it, I remember doing as an experiment a long time ago), made me think about another old style technology. Let the Scouts communicate across the "gorge" by Wig Wag, Semiphore, and ...Heliograph, perhaps home made? Ask the Scouts to develope their own method?

Is it too late to file a grievance with your shop steward? ;-) There are Scouts and there are scouts. If the Scouts in our home Troop asked to plan the summer camp, boy, wouldn't I be surprised and pleased. It is a balance between allowing and hearing the SPL say "you mean I can DO THAT?" when we ask him for his decision about something. As the UC, I often find myself reminding our SM that his lectures are very authoritive, but you can see the boys dozing off, waiting for the meeting's Patrol game. Our present SPL asked for ideas from the Troop for Troop meeting activities. His surprise was evident when several Scouts and adults suggested (in writing) Scout skill practise, and instruction in Scout skill things. We will see....

Great idea. Waaaaay back in prehistory (when I was a Scout), our District (the whole county ) held an event called the Scout-o-rama. It took up the whole County Fair grounds. Every Scout Unit was asked (?required? I forget) to set up a booth, exhibit, demonstration, something. One Cub Pack ran a movie theater. One troop built a lash up tower. Another sold campfire brownies (gave away?). I don't remember the Pinewood derby back then, still new I guess. Almost anything could go , I think. I have seen lashed up merry go rounds! Sell popcorn (fresh! not that canned stuff...). Show "Follow me Boys!" I'm thinking someone could find a distributor to set up an outdoor theater. Small pool for boating, bigger pool for canoe jousting (check with Navy recruiting for SCUBA dive tank.. COPE course. Zip line. Camp cooking. Lots of camp cooking. Steaks, potatoes, brownies/dutch ovens, spaghetti (check with county health inspector) (and fire marshall for outdoor burning) . Do flag retirements. Get Press coverage. LOTS of press coverage. Ballon release. Racing pigeons. Helicopter landing (state police?). Bicycle motocross? Band concert? Celebrities visit? Mike Roe?? Cub Packs do games: Bean bag toss, throw rope lasso, rubber band shooters, water gun targets, R/C car races? PWDerby? Crafts: make Cub stuff to take home with your Pack Troop name on it. Two boy crosscut saw, cut off a "cookie" to take home with the troops name stamped (?burned?) on it. Need nice straight dry fencepost logs for that. Home Depot? "Oh the places you'll go, the things you'll see"... With sufficient control::: hatchet throw?

""...are things that we would do as a family anyway. "" God bless the child that can stand up and say, I've got my own. Not everybody can, knows how, or can afford to go and do that stuff as a family. Let's do'em as a Cub Pack! Or... organize a predominately volunteer Day Camp! Might even get the stay-at- home dads and moms out (aw... I don't know anything about this Scout stuff...) More fun for the Cubs, being with their buddies, maybe a little fun for the adults (I remember the Denwalker mom I overheard mumbling to a compadre about "all the work I'll have piled up waiting for me on monday" moan groan I've been with Johnny all week...). You know what it takes, help them along. For comparison, our big urban Council has the following: *Districts sponsor Cub Scout Day Camps. Our District has three. Monday thru friday, 9 to 3 or 4pm, usual camp stuff: Scout skills, nature, flags,crafts, skits, , archery, bbs, one has a raft on a lake, one has a pool. Bring your lunch. Lots of volunteer leadeship, about $125 or so *Council sponsors a couple of "parent and one" weekends. Saturday morning , lunch, dinner, sunday morn breakfast, lunch, go home. Lots of "extra value" stuff. Might have climbing wall or jr. COPE course, RC planes, archery, BBs, fishing, nature trail, Bring your own tent and gear. maybe $90 a pair. *Resident Cub Camp. Council thing, at a Cub dedicated camp site (they do other stuff there too, like WB). Big wall tents on platforms,cots, your sleeping bag., arrive sunday late afternoon, thru tues. morn, and a second set , weds. afternoon thru fri. afternoon. Paid Scout staff, meals in dining hall, swim pool, boat/raft class(age appropriate), model rocketry, shooting ranges, crafts, campfire at night, skits, etc. $180 Adults and Den Chiefs get a discount. Then we get to the Webelos camps, and they are waaaay away... I still say that Scouting is the best bargain in town.

SM had another C/O to do the same night, so he asked me to take care of C/O #2. Went with BSHBs, neckers and tabs. Knew I had 3 boys to welcome, in company with two other Troops. Initially, I had not met these boys or their parents. I had their names, that's all. OA team did a nice job, made the evening very memorable. The CM said a few goodby words, introduced the Scouters from the three Troops, and the boys made their walk. I welcomed my Troops three boys, and then introduced myself to the parents and collected their names, phone numbers and emails and gave them mine and the SM's. SPoke with them at length about our meeting times, activities and such. Assured them their boys were in a good Troop and we looked forward to having them on the next hike (on such a date). All three are still with us, 2years later, very active, the dads are also very connected. I credit the active interest I gave them right then and there.

There's a competition for you... give advance notice so the Patrols can study up on it, then space'm across a 200 yard wide "gorge", and have them "attempt" (ha!) to send and receive Wig Wag signals with the neckerchief tied to a Scout Staff. Dot to the right (Patrol medallion is a round Dot), dash to the left (Troop number is a long Dash), space is down, period is up-down, up is 'tween letters. Hey, put one Patrol on the north side, one Patrol on the south. Each sends a message to the other, if it is received correctly, they both get points!

Clenlaw: I think you have the right impression. But so do you also have the right atitude, the one about camping, the one about the "out" in "scout". I think you know, if you think about it, that you are in this Scouting stuff for not a short time. If you were not a Scout in your childhood, you are here, now, in it for your CHILD'S childhood. I think that's what I mean. Anyhow, think about the other Cubs and their parents. The cabin camping is , afterall, a good intro to the wild and wooly stuff. Gradual is good. Can't expect the beginners to want to go wilderness trekking on the firat time,umm? Take the BALOO training so you have the certification to help plan your Pack's outdoor stuff. Your son has a dad (and mom?) that are outdoorsy, yes? Take the Tiger Den (and,eventually, the Pack) along with you when you hike. They will find the fun stuff along the way. One of the Tigers I led umteen years ago just got his Eagle. He remembered the old Den Leader... Set the example, be available to the boys, the parents will come along.

As can be seen, we are talking both equipment and technigue/skill differences. If you can find the old gear, might pack up (frinstance) an M4 plywood packframe with a Yucca pack, filled with wool and polyolifin insulated sleeping bag, aluminum canteen, cookkit, metal box first aid kit, canvas tent, rubber nylon poncho, etc. strapped on with diamond hitch.... and then pack up a comparable Kelty/Gregory internal frame pack with comparable ultralight stuff. Compare weight, service, and let Scouts try'em on.

Choice one: Go to sewing/notions section of local store, seek out tool named "seam ripper". Choice two: Go to work bench, seek out tool known as "razor blade paint scrapper". Take one of above choices in one hand, hold Scout shirt sleeve appropriately in other hand, and REMOVE THE POCKET by slooooowllly and caaaarefffuullly cutting out the thread holding it to the sleeve. Do not be in a hurry. You can do this. Leaves sleeve open for patch wearing. Small thread holes do not show, will be covered up by patch, will blend back into sleeve material eventually.

Boomerscout has the right of it. I was a Cub, Bobcat back in, oh , let's see, 1955 I was 7, and my mom was one of our several Den moms. I earned Lion and then Webelos rank (with the Arrow strip). Went on into BScouts. When I came back to Scouting as an adult, and discovered the new ranks, I thought that they had not necessarily done a good thing by enlarging the Webelos rank by a year and removing the Lion rank. Even as a boy, then, I discerned the rank progression: Bobcat, Wolf, Bear, Lion as a logical progression of size and bravery/meaness/strength... I do not understand the rationale of starting as a Lion and then a Tiger and then a Wolf... it short circuits the Junglebook connection, too. Where does Mowgli come into this? And Akela? A cub (wolfcub?) is by rights the start of the pack progression, if one is to retain the Junglebook mythos. Or maybe Kipling is no longer appropriate for our boys to learn from.

The ribbons are the Troop's history. I would not discard them. I also would not send them to some unsuspecting Eagle or their parent. They might have shared in that history , but you are then diluting that history. The recipients then have to decide what to do with them. I like Dk's idea, but it would prove to get unwieldy eventually. Here is what some Troops and Packs have done: Go to your local hobby shop, and buy some acid free display boards, maybe the trifold kind such as kids use for their "science fair" displays. And get some acid free double stick tape, maybe in the scrapbook department. Take the ribbons off the flagpole and sort them out as to type or year or both. Using a COOL iron, not hot, smooth the ribbons out, print side down (the printing may melt off the ribbon!). Arrange them on the display boards and double stick tape them to the boards. Makes a nice display for B&G banquets, CoHs and the like. Portable, too. Admire the fact that your Troop has been to so many places and done so many things. Use as an inspiration to the PLC for future endeavors.

Perhaps the reasons are more, dare I say it, pecuniary in nature . By enlarging the possibly suitable age range, they are making it more likely the Jamboree will be filled. Wasn't there some retrenching of Jamboree enrollments/expectations this last time? And Philmont is already behind in it's usual enrollments this term. Our Troop was recently offered about two dozen open trek dates, and we weren't normally eligible this season having gone just two years ago. That wasn't expected a-tall. This is a NEW, unproven venue. Oh, I know, it will be an unforgetable event as always, no doubt. But, there are also unforgetable bills to pay, despite Bechtel's largesse. They can't expect really new, young Scouts to succeed at the Jamboree, it is something more than the usual Scout summer camp. You have to expect some maturity and ability to navigate solo, so can't make it too young. By the by, any word on the level of summer camp reservations? Or is it too early to judge those things?

Eammon: That is known as "cognitive dissonance", where a really poor, or dumb choice, or bad result is justified by the "owner" as a really good choice because of 'loyalty' or 'future' possibilities, or trying to convince others that the poor choice is a good choice for them too, thus 'sharing' the agony and diluting it somehow..." At the top of the coleseum stands, 40mph zero dgree wind in your face: Repeat after me: "I have season tickets and you don't, I have season tickets and you don't..." A Chicago Cub fan might understand your Steeler fan friend's belief system. A dad or mom might loyaly come to hear their son or daughter scrape a bow across the violin strings at their recital, thus justifying the months (?years?) of lessons. Maybe a future Heivitz, maybe not. But that's loyalty. I know I'll be proud of my son's accomplishments, even allowing for the years of whippings to get him there. ;-) I had a boss who was truly surprised that his employees had no desire to stay late or volunteer for O/T. He could not make the connection between his treatment of the crew and their feelings of not being 'appreciated' in their efforts. I nominated a man for a compliment for an action the man performed. Record a compliment for THAT? The boss responded that the man was "just doing what he was expected to do", and denied the compliment. This boss was like that. Loyalty? I could not name anyone in the office that was sorry to see him promoted sideways to another site. Loyalty is more earned and deserved. It can not be merely expected.

Yep. Gotta ask'em. We had a Hindu family join our Troop. We are sponsored and meet in a Methodist church. They came regularly and the boy made friends. Came time for the first campout together, they tried real hard to make allowances for the family's dietary concerns, everybody ate vegetarian for the weekend! Unfortunately, they dropped out over the dietary thing. Their boy couldn't resist the temptation his Scout buddies represented. No religious conflict seen, as the boys handled all that. No adults to muck it up.

Amen, brother. The P/C is way overpriced, and only for the good of the organization will folks buy it. If one WANTS popocorn, one goes in the grocery, if one WANTS cookies, one LOOKS for a Girl Scout. That said, my local CPack sold over $26,000. of P/C this year. One Cub did over $1,000. by hisself. Or his family? This is one reason why the related STroop does not sell P/C, but Christmas decor.

Jimi Hendryx, well, okay, I guess. Real fireworks in the music... Operatic versions are de classe. I like to point people in the direction of Marvin Gaye's version. The local jazz radio station opens and closes it's day with it. If you look for it, you can find an mp3 version to buy. Most National Anthems are , unfortunately, military in nature. They rarely try to be really representative of the nation in question. Canada seems to have two, and , I find, several revisions, now. I like the new Maple Leaf lyrics. http://www.nationalanthems.us/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1099436035 Sweden has a lovely anthem, and it is often said to be a "scandinavian" anthem, rather than a national Swedish one. Music can be a uniter or a divider. I think of Sibelius' Finlandia, and how the Nazis banned it from performance (anywhere!) in the Second World War. Such an evocative piece. Used to be, that some folks even thought Sousa's Stars and Stripes Forever was or should be our National Song. Now there's some stand up and pay attention music! Sousa even wrote lyrics for it, you know. Think you have trouble singing the SSB? Look up the S&SF lyrics up and try singing those! Oh, there was a football game, too?

Very good. I like the one about the pile of clothing in the changing tent. And I 'd really like to hear more about how Cub Scouts help catch bank robbers. Kinda like the Li'l Rascals episode, I guess. What I'd like to do is jog your memories about trips, adventures, and activities where you got to the point when you had to say (to yourself, if no one else) "oh nuts... I forgot the ... " and then had to scramble to get thru things... Frinstance, I was co-leading a bike trip once, was the 'go to' guy for bicycling. Early in the morning, I packed the car, lunch, tools, bike... and met everyone at the start of the tour, went to unload the car, opened the trunk, and ... no front wheel. It was leaning against the house back porch where I had put it to load the bike in the car. I was the "sag wagon" that trip. And folks were sloooow to let me forget it! C'mon, now, any other admissions of commissions?

As Robert Frost once said in an interview late in his life, "there was a good reason that road was less traveled."

(doubled)(This message has been edited by SSScout)

All Cows Eat Grass Fine Boys Do Funny Acts Daily

Interesting subject. Mementos to thank folks for helping. It can be a nice touch, but it's hard when it becomes a "tradition" or "expected". (" what if I forgot someone?" "Howcum he got that?") Woodbadge staff: I received a trowel (I was a quartermaster),a B-P book. CSDC: I received (1 year)a bag of skincream/sunblock, (2) a small LED flashlight (3)a lunchbag (4) another lunchbag (5)coupons for donuts/coffee (6) carrabiner keyring (7) insulated travel mug (7) bag to clip on belt to carry (8) a water bottle that I got year before. Wife/CDirector received a nice poster signed by seemingly every DenLeader and Cub. Summer Camp Staff: Coffee mugs, many. From Troop I commish: Nice folding lockback knife. Many times: A special patch. Eagle Projects: nothing except Pizza for lunch (usually). NSJ Staff: special commemorative coin handed to me by Someone I Did Not Expect To Meet. From work: On completion of special projects, anniversaries: umbrellas, a really cheap 35mm camera, a nice embroidered jacket, a set of stainless steel cooking pots (engraved!), a shoulder bag, ballcaps, tshirts, certificates, colorful pins. I once gave some folks who had helped me with a Scout project each a book by Ernest T. Seton. I bought all the Scoutstore had, just enough.

Thank you! Fun anecdote. So I am in the local burger place with family (wife and Scoutson) and another family sits down at the table next to us. Dad has on a camp Tshirt from a place in Florida. Mom and boys, one about my son's age and size, one a little younger. I lean over and say "welcome to Maryland". Other dad says "thanks" and then notices my antique (red on green) Scout cap. And we talk. And our sons are suitably embarrassed. Ha! Wives exchange knowing glances. As we leave, we shake hands and everybody says goodbye, even Scoutson.

I believe the operant word in the OP's first post is "consider". ...would the Pack CONSIDER paying $50. a month. They did not say "or else". The need is for conversation and understanding, on both sides. If the church has some financial problems, they are not alone in this in this modern world. I think the Pack did the right thing in helping with the fundraising dinner. That shows good faith. I bet the Cubs had a good time and learned a bit about service to others? And cooking? True, some COs see Scouting as part of their "youth ministry" whether the American Legion, Lions Club, or Baptist church. And they support their Scouts the best they can. I dare say the church CO in question is wondering how to pay the furnace fuel bill that increased 40% over last year, and the choir robes are looking alittle less wonderful than they did when new 20 years ago. Make more overtures. Be appreciative that they have been a supportive (?) CO these many years, and ask how the Pack can help. "The Pack helps the Cub Scout grow. The Cub Scout gives good will". Here's where the "good will" comes in. Matters not if one or half the Pack are attenders/members of the CO. There is a mutual dependency and responsibility here, Pack to CO, and CO to pack. Each can help the other, if it can only be seen that way. Other Packs do pay for the use of their facilities. My Pack did, meeting in the local school AP room. Our CO was pretty much hands off, they had no physical facility of their own, but helped in other ways when asked, and not much else. We were expected to pay our way, with popcorn, carwashes and fees. The present Pack I commish is blessed with a CO that at first was stand offish ("we have a Scout Pack? Really?") , but now is totally behind the Scout units it charters. Scout Sunday, IH at the Troop CoH, and B&G dinner, mention in the church bulletin all the time. Approach the church leadership with understanding and openness. You both can benefit from the presence of the other. Come with an expectation that the "right thing" will happen, and it likely will, whatever that may be.