SR540Beaver

TCD, HEY.....I can live on dropped Cheetos and burned bacon and my mom will let you know quite quickly that I am NOT a mutt!!!

OGE, I've started a new club. The "he-man, woman hate 'em but can't live without 'em" club.

Just a reminder, that in addition to earning AOL, there is an age (10)requirement. Be a boy who is 11 years old, or one who has completed the fifth grade or earned the Arrow of Light Award and is at least 10 years old, but is not yet 18 years old.

Maefking, Scout reservations across the country are owned and operated by individual councils, not national. Selling a property might get a council out of the red, but would never be spent on a national high adventure base as they belong to national.

sec338, Let me make a suggestion on the Webelos crossing to Boy Scouts. Check with the troops in your area and ask when they "prefer" Webelos to cross over. The troop I serve gets between 15 and 20 Webelos per year. Our preference is that they all come in February.......but we will take them when we get them. Due to the quantity of new scouts we take in, we like to do a new scout program in an organized fashion and that is hard to do with 5 in Feb, 3 in Mar, 2 in Apr, 6 in May and then more in the fall. We work with our fall recruits as best we can, but their patrol mates who showed up in February and are getting ready to move to regular patrols are way ahead and they kind of hang there a little until the next group comes in. Bottom line, troops will take a new scout whenever they can get them. For a troop that only takes in a few per year, it probably doesn't matter. Still, talk to the troops and try to find out how they operate and what the prefer.

We have a Wood Badge staff member who stands, but won't do the pledge.......but he's Canadian.

The boys get it. The parents.....well, some parents are a different story. We have one mom who has a 12 year old 2nd year scout and a 17 year old Eagle Scout son who has served as SPL before. She is constantly coming up to the SM, ASM's and CC asking questions for her sons. We constantly and consistently tell her it is her sons responsibility to ask questions of their PL's.....not hers. But she has been doing this since her 17 year old was 11 and joined the troop. You can lead a horse to water.......

I guess I'm just one of those guys who scratches his head a little at younger Eagles, but it is based on my experience. I serve a troop that has been around for 45 years. In that time, the troop has produced 154 Eagles. Now, I've only been associated with the troop since 2005 and to my knowledge, we have never had an Eagle younger than 15. In the time I've been there, we have produced 18 of those 154 Eagles. Looking at the list of 18 I have personally known and worked with, I think the earliest any of them earned Eagle is 15 and I think it is only 2 that were that age. The rest have been 16 or 17. Out of those 18, 3 were boys who left and came back at 17.5 to finish up. 3 or 4 left after making Eagle, but the rest are either still there, stayed up thru 18 or have registered as adults upon turning 18. We are not an Eagle mill. Our gola is to get a boy to 1st Class and then his advancement is in his hands. Our roster runs right at 60 give or take one or two every year with 40+ on any given campout. Maybe it is just our troop traditions and culture. I don't know. We just don't have boys come in and rip a path to Eagle. We have a boy run program that most find fun right up until their 18th birthday.....and beyond. There just isn't a sense of urgency to get to the destination, but rather to enjoy the trip. I look at our 13 and 14 year old guys and see boys that are just hitting their stride as far as skills and beginning to see the big picture and stepping up to real leadership and all that scouting has to offer. Again, just my personal experience. Other than the kid (or helicopter parent) who is checking boxes for the absolute minimum, I find it is a rare boy that gets to Eagle that quick and really understands what exactly he is accomplishing.

Horizon, No need to feel insulted. There are some younger boys who are more mature than others, are self motivated and do more than the checklist to earn it and then remain active. I know of one boy in our council who earned Eagle at 13 and has almost every MB. He is either 15 or 16 now. But he is the exception to the rule. He has also served in a Lodge position for the last two years, staffed NYLT and remains very active in his Troop. The gentleman I spoke of in my earlier post had his son's scouting career planned out for him....literally. He already had on paper when his son would earn each rank and Eagle out. Why? Well as mentioned, dad is Type AAA and a big wig in the bar association. He was building a resume for his son and himself thru his son. Once he Eagled out at 12 or 13, they might stay involved as time allows, but they were moving on to other resume builders. We all run across the checklist parent who pushes their son to Eagle early so they can move on to bigger and better accomplishments. That is why people have a problem with young Eagles. A good number of them get there that way instead of the good old fashioned way of just loving the program, being self motivated and actually wanting it. If you were not one of those, you have no need to feel insulted.

Scoutfish, great analogy!!! We had a prospective father/son just like this check us out back around crossover time. His son was going to be one of the earliest Eagles in the Council and earn every MB. Dad said so. Fotunately, they went elsewhere. This guy was a AAA Type personality and we saw nothing but trouble ahead. My son staffed Cub Resident Camp when this guy and his son came thru and the dad kept questioning every word my son was saying during a knot class. My son (normally a very courteous scout) finally asked him if he wanted to come forward and teach the class for him and it shut the guy up. I've passed your response on to the other two ASM's who I work with in our new scout program, our SM and our CC so we can be "armed" in the future. Thanks!

I grew up in the Southern Baptist Church in Oklahoma, the buckle of the Bible Belt and heart of middle America. To the best of my knowledge, we always had a US flag and the Christian flag in the sanctuary. I never gave it any thought. I don't darken the church door as frequently as I used to, but I don't believe my current Baptist church has flags in the sanctuary. Speaking of symbols. We Baptists always took issue with the Catholics use of the Crucifix. We had the Cross. The difference. One has a dying Christ on it and the other was empty due to a risen Savior. Another difference pointed out to me by a Catholic friend was that Catholic churchs have Crosses on their steeples and Baptist churches do not. It usually holds true, check it out. I have no idea why.

BadenP, I never said that unions have not overstepped their bounds and insisted on more than they should get. In the past, business held all the cards because they had the jobs. Do it for 15 cents an hour or we will give it to the guy standing in line behind you. This was great for the few people at the top, especially if they could manage to create a monopoly. The got wealthier and wealthier as the people who worked for them worked 12 and 14 hour days, 7 days a week and still didn't make enough to keep up. If they got sick, they were just out of luck and their job went to the next warm body. Organized labor helped put an end to poor treatment of workers. The employer/employee relationship should be sybiotic, but sometimes swings too far in one direction or the other. Face it, not everyone can be the top dog and all the little dogs just want their piece of the pie too. Unions asked for too much and business is moving elsewhere to continue making the profit margins they are accustomed to. My main point is that we would not have the standard of living and benefits we currently enjoy without the unions paving the way for everyone else. the lesser point I didn't make is that there is plenty of blame to go around between business and unions due to their often adversarial role instead of a sybiotic relationship..

Buffalo, It ain't bragging if it's true!

I've never been a union employee and given my line of work, probably never will be. I know all of the complaints and arguments against unions. That being said, I realize and understand the value that unions have played and continue to play for the common worker. All of you who dislike unions, but enjoy your vacation days, sick leave, pension plans, regular work hours, etc. can thank unions for those. Businesses left to their own devices would have never given those benefits on their own without the organized efforts of unions. I realize that the argument can be made that now that those itmes are the norm, the union has outlived it's usefullness. But that is kind of like disbanding the military after WWII was over or leaving your door unlocked after you've been robbed. Business is always looking for ways to cut costs. Look at how many businesses have moved operations overseas. People blame the unions for wanting too much, but consider this.....without the union, those same businesses would prefer to pay YOU the pennies on the dollar that they are paying grade school kids in China to do the work. And those kids do it with absolutely no benefits. That is where businesses would begin to go if unions were totally eliminated.

Might as well post the description. http://www.scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/ItemDetail.aspx?cat=01RTL&ctgy=PRODUCTS&c2=UNIFORMS&c3=TROUSERS&c4=&lv=3&item=689SHORTS $29.99 Our Centennial Supplex Uniform Short is designed to offer a Land to Water option that is functional and convenient. Stuck at the Aquatics Center before needing to report to the Mess Hall in full Class A? This new short is the answer! This short is made from 100% Supplex Nylon that is light weight and quick drying, yet a durable, athletic fabric. It is also an anti-microbial product that offers great sun protection with a UPF rating of 50 . This is a complete moisture management product. The design features deep front pockets as well as cargo pockets and a waterproof pouch to carry all your essentials i.e. compass, money, pocket knife, etc. The left cargo pocket also has black FDL embroidery. The short features a nylon mesh lining to accommodate swimming. We included 6 belt loops on the short to easily support our uniform belt. There is an elastic v inset at waistband for extra stretch and comfort. Logo rubber snap, d ring, and zipper pull are made of recycled trims to continue to embrace be eco-friendly.

We had a Jambo Troop meeting yesterday and I did a presentation on uniforming. This was easy for me because I own multiple pieces of the old style shirt, pants, shorts, socks and web belt as well as all the same pieces of the Centennial uniform. I even have a pair of the first generation switchback pants with the black web belt and plastic buckle. I think I wore the switchbacks twice and absolutely hated the fit and feel. That leads me to my questions. I was out on scoutstuff.org and came across the new Centennial Uniform short made from supplex. There are a number of features that look attractive and one that does not. Unless I'm wearing a swimsuit, I do not care for the mesh liner in shorts. That would have to go if I bought any. Has anybody bought and worn these new shorts? What did you think of them? Are the pockets mesh material on the inside or are they supplex? I don't like mesh pockets. How deep are the pockets? Are the shorts hot? I'm very hot natured and my personal experience at the 2005 Jamboree was that I stayed wet pretty much 24/7 for 10 days in cotton. While camping with the home troop where I can wear what I want, I go almost totally synthetic as I can dry out quickly and be much more comfortable. Since I need three complete uniforms for Jambo, I'm seriously considering buying 2 sets of the synthetic uniform shirt and shorts......but I want it to be a "wise" purchase. Sooooo, anyone tried the new shorts and what did you think of them?(This message has been edited by sr540beaver)

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but the athiest and gay exclusion didn't just happen when LDS adopted the program did it? I don't know that we can blame the reluctance to include those groups on the LDS.

NJ, All I've gotten out of it is neener, neener, neener. I think I'll head over to the politics forum where it's a little more friendly.

The BSA is a democracy? Where the heck is the polling place located?(This message has been edited by sr540beaver)

For crying out loud you guys........do you all need to be sent to your timeout corners? How about we grow up and set the example by living the oath and law in our internet life which is part of our daily life. Would you act this way in front of your scouts? Seriously?

TwoCub, I just attended the Course Director's Development Conference a couple of weeks ago and there was no mention of this. I have no idea what the "refresher" course consists of, but I would seriously doubt that it would qualify old syllabus WB attendees to be considered as 21st Century WB. They have been pretty adament in their requirement that anyone wanting to staff a course needs to go thru 21st Century WB.

Back around 2004, a bunch of us with Webelos crossed to a Troop. Things didn't progress very well. Things got ugly. We all decided to leave since we were not appreciated and formed our own troop. We had a ready made troop with 5 adults and 6 boys. What we didn't have was a charter. We started off chartering ourselves as "parents of xxx" and went in search of a charter. The DE didn't really assist much until I finally found an interested chuch and then he went to a meeting with me and them and got the paperwork done. Sometimes it can and is done backwards.

Annual fee - $65 Base outing fee - $15 Summer camp - $200ish Then the really, really active ones who go on high adventure, NYLT, Jamborees, OA events pay a heck of a lot more.....but by choice. My son and I will have ponied up $11,000 at a minimum for the both of us attending the 2005 and 2010 Jamboree.

Wow JBlake, you guys are getting off light at $1750 and two uniforms. We have three contingent troops and it is costing $2995 and three uniforms. To ease the pain, our SE has said that the boys can mix and match the old ODL and Centennial uniform pieces to make three uniforms. We do a shakedown prior to boarding the plane where the boy has to bring everything packed and one of the adult leadership goes thru it with a checklist to make sure he has everything. Others, it is true that you could do an EBOR without a uniform. You could also go to a job interview for an upper management position in a major corporation wearing shorts and flip flops. It would reflect poorly on you and you probably wouldn't get the job. A boy who has been in scouting long enough to earn Eagle, has been in long enough to either borrow from a friend, select from the pre-owned offerings many troops have or to have raised enough scout bucks to purchase the pieces. I have never sat on an EBOR, but I'd be hard pressed to have a 16 or 17 year old scout appear in street clothes and say that there was absolutely no opportunity over the last 6 years or so to get a uniform. It just isn't that hard.

And the team requires the player to wear it while the troop does not. Let me clarify, the player doesn't actually purchase his uniform. It IS provided by the school. As a means to maintain a balance of funds in the team coffers, the boy sends out letters each year to friends and family listing the price of each piece of uniform and gear her uses and asks for donations in those amounts. How successful he is in raising his quota of funds remains to be seen. The team can require him to wear it because they do supply it and because he would look silly on the field wearing a different clothes from the rest of the team. One obvious purpose a uniforms serves is identification. When you need to throw a pass, you'd better be able to spot your guy down the field.