SR540Beaver

@mds3d: "Lodges should get much more guidance than they do. I think that a Journey to Excellence award for Lodges would be in order. Deciding what requirements to have would be the challenge, but there is currently no system to gauge the success of a Lodge." Lodge JTE replaces Quality Lodge. http://www.oa-bsa.org/annc/g11/jte/ @Eagle92: "1) Have photos attached to the applications." We already do that because we realize that boys will recognize a face better than a name. @SeattlePioneer: "If OA projects include things like setting up tents at the Scout Camp that makes

Eagle, Being a Chapter Adviser, there is nothing I'd like better than have every boy who gets elected do their Ordeal and that every boy who does his Ordeal become active. That is my pipe dream. The reality is that they were elected by the peers to be honored for their example in their troop and that their first responsibility as an Arrowman is to their troop. This is an extreme example, but would we ever tell a Medal of Honor recepient that we honor his service and bravery under fire, but we won't give him his medal until he puts another year into the military? Being elected to the O

Gentlemen, I understand and agree that a person can receive the Vigil Honor without being active in OA. That being said, the boys voting on Vigil tend to vote for those they have seen around providing service. Regardless of how great of a nomination letter someone has written, if the boys haven't a clue who the kid is, they tend not to vote for them. That is the reason that many adult nominees don't get elected. They may serve their unit, the district and the council in 10 different ways, but if the boys have never seen them at an OA event, they tend not to vote for them. While I certainl

Unfortunately, council professionals seem to meddle in things they have no business in and won't get involved in the things they do. Since your professionals seem to have turned a blind eye to the situation, consider taking it to the pack's chartering organization.

leV. I'm not sure how other Lodge's do it, but here is the process we use for Vigil selection. There is a Vigil nomination form and it is my understanding that anyone can submit a nomination. Considering that we have SM's whose troops "don't do OA", most submitions come from within the Lodge. Nominations go to one individual. A date is set on the calendar where the Chapter Adviser and two of his active Chapter members (usually the Chapter Chief and one other boy) come to a Vigil Selection Committee meeting. Only the 2 youth from each chapter may vote. The Adviser does not sit at th

OGE is correct about "ranks" in OA. There is no such thing. A member is a member is a member when done correctly. An Ordeal member is a person accepted by the Lodge on the recommendation of his peers who elected him. A Brotherhood member is an Ordeal member who after at least 10 months has self determined that he embraces the ideals of the Order and seals his Brotherhood. A Vigil member is someone who after two years of being a Brotherhood member is nominated to be honored for their dedication and selfless service. That is the distinction of what each type of membership is, but they mean

Then it's time to quit. Life is far too short to spend your free time doing something you don't enjoy.(This message has been edited by sr540beaver)

Seattle, You have it wrong. I'm fully aware and accept that NO is an option as I have troops who each year tell us no. They are well within their rights to do so. Whether I think they should feel an obligation is neither here nor there. I do think they are being very close minded and short sighted. I'm a Chapter Adviser. I personally have an obligation and responsibility to promote and advocate for the OA. If I wasn't, I would hope that the Lodge Adviser would remove me from my position. Can you imagine an SM or troop who refuses to recruit new boys? What eventually happens to th

Seattle, my parents sounded like a broken record too when they insisted I eat my vegetables and take regular baths. They never really changed their old tired sales pitch either. I eventually realized they were right. Look, I was a scouter and my son was a scout without OA and later in OA. I've seen it from both sides and after the fact, realize what it has to offer, because we actually decided to give it a try. That's all we are ever asking......hold elections and let a boy decide to do his Ordeal or not. Who knows, your troop could have a National Chief a few years down the road....

Here is a video from the 2003 Indian Summer event. Having attended a good number of Native American events here in Oklahoma including the Annual Red Earth Festival which draws Native Americans from the US, Canada and Mexico, the dance regalia is dead on top notch as well as the dancing. About 35 seconds into the video, not the ethnicity of the drummers. It appears they have no problem with white boys honoring their heritage and culture. http://www.oa-bsa.org/events/is2003/live/videos/is2003_closegather_high.wmv

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, OA ENHANCES a boy's scouting career. It isn't there to take him away from his troop. It isn't there to necessarily provide something to your troop, although it does. The OA is a brotherhood of cheerful service. The OA exists as an arm of the scouting program where the best of a troop's scouts get elected to honor their commitment and dedication to being a living example of living the scout oath and law, a skillful camper and providing service within their troop. It is an honor bestowed upon a scout by his peers. An Arrowman's first responsibi

Good post KC! When I got involved in scouting as an adult back in the spring of 2003, it was for one boy, my son. That very soon grew to include all the boys I came into contact with. My son Eagled in December of 2010 and aged out in February of 2011. All my friends and family just assumed that when he aged out, I'd be done. Not by a long shot. I stay in for two reasons, the boys and because I enjoy it. When I cease to enjoy it, I'll retire. But for now, it gives me purpose and the main thrust of that purpose is the boys. I suppose I might be one of those that some people would dismis

I nominate AnnLaurelB's post for scouter.com post of the year. While I sympathize with her plight, that was one funny post to read!

johnponz hit the nail on the head. Being a Chapter Adviser, I see the troops with 5 scouts that have no SPL or utilize many of the possible POR's due to their size and I see the troops with 60 scouts that fill every imaginable POR. Alone, that is great and it meets the needs of the troop organization and rank advancement for the boy. But there are boys out there who aspire to do more than there troop can provide. These are the guys who start staffing camp, staffing council events and usually end up being elected to OA. I'vve said in a number of my posts that OA enhances a boy's scouting c

Seattle, who designs the program in your troop that attracts the boys? Is it the adults or the boys? What if you didn't have boys to design the program? Would you as an adult know what would really attract them and make them want to join and participate? The same goes for OA. I don't disagree with you that you need to come up with program that makes it attractive, but its hard to do if no one willing to do it. And it's hard to have people willing to do it when their troops won't support it or promote it. You can't come to something you don't know about.

hicountry, Please don't take this the wrong way, because it isn't intended to offend. It's a real and honest question. When you say "we", is that the overburdened SM "we" or the whole troop including the boys "we"? In a true boy led troop and OA chapter, it should be the Vice Chief of Elections contacting the SPL to set up an election, but the "no" usually comes from the adults. All "we" in my chapter ever ask those adults who say "we" aren't interested is to let us come explain what the OA is, hold an election and let the chips fall where they may. Once elected, it is their choice t

hicountry, Let me give you the other side of the picture. I've been a unit scouter much longer than I've been an OA Chapter Adviser (while still being a unit scouter). I've seen both sides of the fence. I deal every year at election time with the troops who say no thanks without any explanation why. If we do get a response, it's usually simply that they "don't do OA". Or the boys aren't interested. Or that they'll ask the boys if they're interested and let us know. Being a unit scouter, I know that it is usually code for the SM not being interested and thinking it is just one more

Engineer61, You could contact the American Indian Education Center in Cleveland. http://www.aiecc.net/index.htm

Our "hokey indians" get so many requests each year that we can't possibly do them all. The Packs and the boys love them. One of our ceremonialists was dying to become an OA member and join the ceremony team ever since he saw them as a Tiger. He's our Vice Chief of Ceremonies now. It's a blast getting to go provide a ceremony and see all the excited Webelos crossing over to their next great adventure.

jblake, Push for boy-led in OA? OA has always been boy-led.....if done correctly. Who said they were learning boy-led at OA and taking it back to their troop as a new idea? They are continuing boy-led at OA. In fact, we held elections at our chapter banquet last Friday. Here is part of an email I sent to the five members of the chapter leadership team this morning asking them to schedule a time to do their annual chapter planning. "Thank you for stepping up to serve in a chapter leadership position. I was serious at the banquet when I said, this is your chapter, this is your ti

Well you see fred, it's hard for a Lodge to provide a decent program when kids won't come. For a Lodge to be run correctly, it is indeed youth led. Adults serve as advisers just like Venturing. In a Crew, if the kids don't make it happen, it won't happen. Same with a Chapter/Lodge. I realize it is a chicken and egg kind of thing. You could say build it and they'll come, but if they are the ones who are supposed to build it, they need to be their first. Just like troops, there are large onnes. small ones, active ones, inactive ones, good leaders, bad leaders. As a Chapter Adviser, I tak

Sooooo, you're just using the $7.7T bailout as an excuse to bash Wood Badge one more time. Got it.

fred, I understand where you are coming from, but it's a little short sighted. OA "can" offer so many opportunities that often can't be met in unit scouting. For the typical boy in a troop, what leadership position can he hold at the district, council, regional and national level? That path exists in OA. Many troops just aren't big enough or have the experienced adults to pull off a troop high adventure trek at Philmont or one of the other high adventure bases. In that case, they have to rely on a council contingent that can be extremely costly. Thru the OA, members can attend all b

I dropped out after Webelos. My son was a baseball player and scouts wasn't even on the radar for us until he came home from school and begged to go to an informational meeting that night at school. He joined as a Webelos 1 and Eagled last December and aged out this past February. So I wasn't a scout as a youth, but I've been a very involved adult. I was a Cub Committee Chair and WDL, ASM, staffed 4 WB courses, staffed IOLS, ASM for 2 Jamborees, Campmaster, OA Chapter Adviser and will be Course Director for one of our NYLT courses in 2012. My question is why all of the guys who were scout

Here is another frustration. Our chapter has a history with one of the troops in our district. For some reason, they believe they were blackballed by the former adviser and were being passed over for elections. I know this to not be true because during that time, my own son was the one who contacted the SM's (yes, this troop has co-SM's....whatever that is) about holding an election and could never get a committment out of them. Then I became adviser and I had their CC call me last year with lots of questions about OA (he claims to be a former Lodge Adviser) and tells me about how they have