SR540Beaver

OGE, Mmmmmm, Miss Landers is hot! Unlike that smarty-pants Judy up at the front of the class. Actually, I do need to do the IOLS, I'm just having trouble getting pumped up for it. I just got back from camp a week ago and it has turned cold, rainy and windy here.

hmmmmm......attend IOLS training this weekend or stay in town for the grand opening of our very own Bass Pro Shop.....hmmmmm

GO! Don't worry about getting more experience as a leader. Wood Badge IS leader training. Oh yeah, pray that the good scout in the sky blesses you with being a Beaver. Beavers are first in Wood Badge order.....you are the first thru the chow line everytime! It's a very good thing!

First of all brother Beaver, welcome to the forums! I second the motion on a lock-in or campout. Let me tell you about the experience we had weekend before last. We attended Webelos Woods with a troop. The whole idea behind Webelos woods is for troops to recruit Webelos by giving them a taste of what Boy Scouts do at camp. To me, it was unsuccessful. Our boys were integrated into the patrols. However, the scouts had to man one of the "stations" of the games set up for the Webelos to compete in. What this meant was that the Webelos spent the day with the Webelos leaders going from station to station while the scouts ran the games. No interaction. The only interaction was cooking, eating and cleaning. What often happens on these campouts is akin to kids going to their first dance. The boys sit on one side of the room and the girls sit on the other staring at each other across an empty dance floor. Fortunately or unfortunately (depending on your view), the campout served it's purpose. The patrol my son was assigned to didn't have a lantern and had to cook by flashlight. The other patrol did have a lantern. Why one did and the other didn't, I don't know. It is very telling that the patrol has done little to make sure they have light at camp. The patrol leader left his patrol to deal with our boys in cooking and cleaning. He went to his tent and ate an MRE and therefore claimed he did not have to participate in the clean up. A fight almost broke out between one of our Webelos and one of the scouts. Our Cubmaster had to step in to stop it. The Webelos kept drifting over to the adults campfire because the patrols didn't bother to build one of their own. Our boys retreated to their tents to play gameboys and watch TV on their Watchman. This is one time I was glad they brought them! My son was in tears the second night and wanted to go home. This troop is talking about inviting us to a campout where they can actually spend time with our boys. Maybe that will be a better experience....maybe not. Bottom line is to get the boys together where they can actually interact and let them see your real self. No artificial dog and pony show where you pull out the stops. Let the chips fall where they may. BTW, I doubt we will go to this troop unless they redeem themselves.

FOG, You'd be surprised at some of the commutes I've made. In '99 and '00, I commuted weekly from Oklahoma to Vermont to work on a project for 10 months. I had a 4 hour lay over each way in Chicago. So like I said, we won't be joining your troop. But you dodged my question. Rather than ensuring your boys have created a planned program that keeps them busy having fun and learning, do they just pitch a tent and spend the weekend playing Gameboys and listening to music thru headphones?

FOG, So your scouts pitch a tent on Friday night and play games the rest of the trip? Guess we won't be joining your troop. We plan on hiking, backpacking, float trips, rock climbing and rapelling, caving, etc. Won't have much time for those devices till lights out.....if they can stay awake to use them.

FOG, I think the idea is that it is better to have the boys exposed to the methods of scouting, out in the woods, hiking, cooking with their patrol and developing their character than deciding to stay home because they can't take a device along to use in their free time. If you keep them busy, they won't have much free time to use their devices. But you understood that already....didn't you?

Hey, I listen to both kinds of music....country AND western!

I got industrious a couple of years ago and built a lego table for my son. It is open underneath and has three of the deep three drawer plastic bins that normally have wheels on the bottom. I bult the top of the table with a lip all the way around it and a tray on the two long sides to hold legos you are working with. The table is tall enough to stand and do your work/play. The top has 8 base plates glued to it to build off of. I never got around to painting it though. Wouldn't you know though, all of the legos are on top of the table instead of in the drawers. Go figure! BTW, this table is too big to fit in a kid's bedroom and is in our bonus room upstairs where their is plenty of room. If we ever decide to move it, it will have to be torn apart as it is too big to fit thru the door.

Proud Eagle, The US constitution and federal courts supercede state constitutions and state courts.

Ed, Moore has freedom of speech and exercised it......and like the Dixie Chicks, he found that it sometimes comes with a big price tag.

FOG, I don't know about that. When the last thread was going, I was watching something like the History channel and it was showing some WWII vintage footage of military planes. One plane turned around on the tarmac and there was a reverse flag plain as day on it.

As a government official, he used his position to endorse his particualr religious views in a monument on government property and say that it was an official stance of the government. He violated the constitutions prohibition of officially recognizing a particular faith as part of the government. Hey, I'm a devout evangelical Christian just like Moore, but I'll call a spade a spade. My church wouldn't like me passing out literature for a political candidate in the halls between Sunday School and the Worship Service either. I'm not prohibited by the constitution like Moore was, but most churches choose to teach their doctrines and then let people develop their political stances as they see fit. They don't preach political philosophy and let you campaign on church grounds. Moore was very public in pushing his beliefs in the courthouse as part of his official capacity.

But wouldn't prohibiting these devices be setting an unneeded artificial rule since the BSA has all the rules already covered? andrewcanoe, Introduce the boys to a set of earplugs. They work better than headphones, have no cords to get tangled in and do not require batteries.

BW, There is another old saying, "leaders are not born, they are made" or something to that effect. One becomes a good leader thru learning. Learning is a form of following. To gain the skills of leadership, you must follow the instructions and examples taught to you by another leader. Simple.

You know, although I hate to see the loss of funds....I'm OK with this. I quit giving to the United Way long ago because I did not agree with some of the organizations they funded. I give my money directly to the charities of my choice instead. That way I can fund BSA and not fund abortion.

BW, No, our unit has no written rules. We use the common sense God gave us. In other words, we explain the rules to the boys much like you just described.

BW, With all due respect, please give me a break! I already said that we teach the Oath and Law. We seek to instill in the boys the values that develop character. We also lead by example. But you know what? You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. Character development is a process. You don't wake up one day full of all the best character attributes. They develop over time. Therefore, when we are at camp and some kid keeps picking up rocks and throwing them, we keep reminding him that it is not allowed. What he does behind our backs, we have no idea.....we can't see him then. We don't just tell him not to throw rocks, we explain to him why we don't throw rocks. We tell him that by reminding him of the Oath and Law and what it means. Hopefully some day he will mature enough that it will click and he'll quit doing it because he chooses not to and because it is the right thing to do. Until then, we have to remind them to follow the rules. I'd rather send a kid home for throwing rocks than send a kid home with a bloody knot on his head after getting hit with a rock. We know the program and we apply it, we just don't get 100% compliance from the boys 100% of the time.

Why am I the guy that always sees both sides of an argument? I causes me more grief than anything else. A well run program does address many problems.....but not all. Most of my camping experience has been with Webelos. We did a camporee with a troop this past spring and just returned from Webelos Woods with a troop. Many of the same problems we have with Cubs are present in the troops as well. How many times do we have to say, "no running in camp" or "no throwing ANYTHING in camp"? I suppose we could say, "only walk" or "leave things on the ground" to put a positive spin on it. The problem is, no matter how we say it, they KEEP doing it! Cubs and Boy Scouts. Yes, we should continue to teach them the Oath and Law and their meanings and set the example by our actions. To date, I still see boys bring electronics to camp, play in the fire, run, throw, mess with other peoples gear, push, shove, knock hats off, call names, use inappropriate language, etc. It may only be 1 in 10 boys acting this way, but 10% is too much. I'm talking about examples from many units of both programs I've seen. This isn't isolated to one unit or one boy. It is events like this that cause all of those "artificial" rules. Boys are boys. They will throw things and they will run. To get them to stop, we have to make rules, repeatedly remind them of the rules and sometimes enforce them. One of my greatest concerns is language. My Webelos son has been exposed to several troops in a search for a troop to join. His complain with each one has been the language of the scouts. If I had a dime for each time I heard the words faggot, gay, homo, fatty, etc, this weekend....I'd be buying myself a nice new down bag. Naturally the majority of this is down in the patrol and away from the adults. I think that the adults that are trying to stay in visual contact with the patrols, but stay away to allow the patrol to function as a boy led unit are unaware of what is going on. At least I hope that is the case! I stayed within ear shot because I wanted to see how our boys were interacting with the troop. I know I got long winded, but the bottom line is that I think a properly run program is a good thing.......but unit rules occasionally need to be establised and enforced. This is after all, the real world and not an "on paper" world.

By all means wear the uniform. Afterall, you are a registered adult volunteer leader and need to set the example like any other leader. I am a pack committee chairman and unfortunately me and our Cub Master are the only adults who wear a full uniform. We have the problem that many packs have with the "it's only Cubs" attitude. I would urge y ou to wear the uniform....the complete uniform.

Ahhh, the old Big Chief tablet!

Big Dog, Don't get me wrong, I've lived in OK all of my 46 years and nothing could pry me away. It's home. But VT is beautiful year round and a great place to visit. Rolling mountains, natural lakes, forests, comfortable summer tempatures, etc. When I was there, they had a heat wave and brown outs. The temp got to a whooping 90 degrees!!! Oh my! LOL The falls are unbelievable and even the winters have to be experienced to be believed. I had always wondered if you could really tell a difference between 0 and -30? I mean once it is cold, can you tell a huge difference between cold and "cold". I'm here to tell you....YES! I walked outside the hotel one evening in a pair of sweat pants and a tee shirt when it was around -20. It felt like I had been dipped in water and was standing their naked. The cold went in one side and out the other in a split second and every hair in your nose freezes and curls up. The nice thing about the snow is that it is powder and everything is so cold, you just go out and can literally blow it away from the window with your breath. I'm used to scraping an inch of ice and snow off of car windows in OK. Back to OK, believe it or not, the only rattlers I've ever personally run across have all been in NM. Fortunately, the fireants have not made it up to central OK yet. The east side of the state is forested and does have some pretty fall color. I'm so sorry you have to live down in Baja Oklahoma. Perhaps you could ask Santa for a college football team as good as OU's! Sorry, couldn't resist that one.

LOL!!! Good answer Dan! That is one of the things I remember from my Wood Badge equipment list.....extra batteries.

kayakinmom, Brattleboro, VT....sigh! I spent 10 months on business in Burlington, VT between 1999 and 2000 and did a little travel around the state. Even visited Brattleboro. I fell in love with VT. I'd love to be able to camp VT sometime. The trees are just beginning to turn here in OK, I imagine it is all over in your neck of the woods. Actually, here in OK the trees are green one day and brown the next. Very little color or gradual change of the seasons. VT.....sigh!

Try fire building skills. No, don't light them unless you have a fireplace in the cabin. Teach them the difference between tender, kindling and larger fuel. Teach them different fire lays and starting techniques. Show them how to pack a backpack and have them set up some small free standing tents. Show them how to seal seams and some basic tent repair skills. How about a demo of different sleeping bag and pad types and how to sleep warm in cold weather. These are all things they will need to know and will assist them in equipment selection before an over ambitious parent goes out and buys Johnny an 8'x10' tent and a 25 lbs flannel bag before a winter hiking trip. The presentations can be made fun and even done as a competition.